I think this was the game that we were hoping would prepare us for upcoming games against legitimate competition.
Wake Forest 80, Illinois 73 POSTGAME
I think this was the game that we were hoping would prepare us for upcoming games against legitimate competition.
I took the time to go to the monitor and slow down the debated non basket interference call. It was clear with normal eyes it was interference, but this video proves it for sure. Watch the rim move up as the WF player hits it with his hand.
[YOUTUBE]zazgEcqOgvc[/YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]zazgEcqOgvc[/YOUTUBE]
Ransom Stoddard
Ordained Dudeist Priest
- Bloomington, IL
According to ESPN's play-by-play, your statement is correct, but I don't remember the specifics of each foul.
I searched through the NCAA rulebook and couldn't find anything to support why Kipper's charge resulted in FTs unless it was considered a loose ball foul rather than player control.
I saw that too and wondered the same thing.
You are correct about the zero subjectivity, but I believe that waiving off the clearly signaled offensive foul call, after viewing a replay to determine if the identical action which was called an offensive foul (player possession foul) also warranted a flagrant foul call, is the most egregious call of the game. Throughout the NCAA Tournament last year, there were countless times where replays were viewed and the original call was obviously wrong, but, because the original call could not be overturned, nothing was reversed. The final second of the Championship game was a prime example. Each time, the announcers carefully explained that the original call could not be changed. Did something change between last year and this year?
The non-goal-tending/phantom-Finke-foul call was a complicated hot mess, but the offensive-foul-waive-off was very clearly contrary to the current rules regarding replay. I fail to understand why Underwood was so calm and accepting of the explanation he received. Not a fan of coach theatrics, but that was the situation where an emotional blow-up and a coach's technical foul was warranted to shake the Illini and the refs out of their torpor.
I belive one ref called a charge, another ne said ball was stripped so more of a loose ball call v offensive foul which does not result in free throws.
Not saying I agree, just what I noticed.
Thoughts on why the problem with Zone Defense.
Illinois has used their offense against a man to man well enough that already teams are choosing to run zone defenses which is not typical. That is impressive after only 6 or 7 games. Illini have done some work against a zone but obviously not as much. Last night according to Underwood they specifically had some plays to set up Finke. But Finke was sitting with fouls and Lucas was also sitting. Result not the best night against the zone. Encouraging part is the man to man offense is impressive enough that it is forcing teams to consider zone.
Illinois has used their offense against a man to man well enough that already teams are choosing to run zone defenses which is not typical. That is impressive after only 6 or 7 games. Illini have done some work against a zone but obviously not as much. Last night according to Underwood they specifically had some plays to set up Finke. But Finke was sitting with fouls and Lucas was also sitting. Result not the best night against the zone. Encouraging part is the man to man offense is impressive enough that it is forcing teams to consider zone.
how convenient of them:suspicious:
As I commented earlier in this thread, I do not understand how with four sixteen left in the first half, wake shot free throws... So your saying turnover happened then a foul? Worst call of night. We didn't lose cause of refs. We lost. But several blown calls. What good is "official review" if they can't get it right?
I looked at it again, the ball was stripped on his way up before he banged into the other player. Bad call? That seemed like a minute technicality to call it that way. There were two plays where Nichols was out of control and it brought Wake to the line twice. Say it's a bad call. I really don't know the rules, but we definitely need better play from Kipper. He atoned for it for hitting that 3 in the corner at the end of the half. But to win, we need limit the mistakes.
Found it more curious than anything, why did BU take Alstork out after he made the first 7 pts for us? I know we have rotation, and seems AJ does sub for MA, but don't grasp the logic. Alstork seemed to be rolling, for the first time on offense, and we had a good start. Didn't see post game, wondering if BU elaborated on it. Rest of game kinda fell into a sequence of things that went down for the bad for us. AJ plays well off the bench, think that works well, Finke and TJL missing a big part of 1st half hurt the most. Getting this game out of the way might be the best teaching moment for all. Let's go get the Mildcats.
I agree, maybe this game was the one we wanted before NW.
I agree, maybe this game was the one we wanted before NW.
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Because I wanted to make sure that what I was seeing wasn't just confirmation bias.
Found it more curious than anything, why did BU take Alstork out after he made the first 7 pts for us? I know we have rotation, and seems AJ does sub for MA, but don't grasp the logic. Alstork seemed to be rolling, for the first time on offense, and we had a good start. Didn't see post game, wondering if BU elaborated on it. Rest of game kinda fell into a sequence of things that went down for the bad for us. AJ plays well off the bench, think that works well, Finke and TJL missing a big part of 1st half hurt the most. Getting this game out of the way might be the best teaching moment for all. Let's go get the Mildcats.
I agree, maybe this game was the one we wanted before NW.
At one point , Alstork took a 30 footer and Underwood let him have it. I don't know if that was the only reason he sat.
Yeah I saw that too.
at the end we should have been setting up threes and crashing. We were very hesitant towards end of game. Doral is a big tree in the middle,.. stopped up the middle and we didnt get calls.
FinalFour88
- Charlotte, NC
Totally agree. Them reversing that foul call is out of their jurisdiction. It would be like a replay in football where the refs originally called holding, then saw on the replay that it wasn't really holding, and then reversed it by saying, "It was an inadvertent whistle."
Ubermensch
BOOM! Feed my ego.
Alstork hit a couple shots early then evidently thought he'd heat check himself and threw up a horrendous shot which I don't think even touched rim.
You better make that shot or Underwood is going to yank you. Alstork is having a hard time figuring out how to get his shots in this offense. He passes up good looks and then he does something like that. Hopefully he can get it figured out soon. I was hoping for 15 ppg from him this year.
I could be wrong but I thought Alstork hit for 7 quick ones, then was pulled out for AJ. Upon coming back into the game a few mins later, he hit another 3 but was called for traveling before the shot. The next attempt was the heat check.
I agree with the previous poster that it wasnt a smart move to take him out when he did.
Ubermensch
BOOM! Feed my ego.
Could be. I just remember Alstork's silly shot.
It was called on the floor. Then illegally reviewed. Then even worse, overturned.
Fair enough and actually not a bad idea. :thumb:
some of that reason, especially in the first half was because Finke and Lucas were out with foul trouble
Yeah, I saw that (think it was around 23 ft, but it was definitely several feet beyond the arc). He was wide open, so I thought it was an ok shot to take, but I'm sure they have stats on deep 3s by player, and it wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't have the green light for that. Even if he did, it didn't look like he initiated the offense at all before taking it. I'm sure Underwood had a good reason to demand better from him.
Kipper was out of control most of the night. I think refs are harder on guys who've made poor moves earlier in the game. He's trying to be aggressive, so I'm ok with that, but he just hasn't figured out what he's gonna do when he's got decent 7 footers guarding the paint and his size doesn't buy him some room. Some of the frustration carries to defense unfortunately.
Smith didn't have much of a game again. The light will go on, but hasn't happened yet.
Aaron Jordan, if you're reading this, you'd get the game ball (do they give those in a loss). And you'd get my admiration for your patience and dedication in the transition of coaches. Program's been through a lot, and you've turned into a star! Not sure where you ceiling is, but man what a boost you bring.
I'm encouraged by the opening 10 minutes. We just haven't hit enough of a groove to fire on all cylinders when there's something we haven't seen before.