Yeah… that was a rough game for everyone involved. Both MD games. They were a really, really bad matchup for us for whatever reason.?
Morez started that game against Maryland and played only 19 minutes because he fouled 4 times.
What are we looking for in this box score exactly? (Besides Morez getting the opportunity to start and being thoroughly destroyed by Queen and Reese - I mean just absolutely annihilated)
Maryland 91-70 Illinois (Jan 23, 2025) Box Score - ESPN
Box score for the Maryland Terrapins vs. Illinois Fighting Illini NCAAM game from January 23, 2025 on ESPN. Includes all points, rebounds and steals stats.www.espn.com
Week of 1/12 Games Thread
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Nicely broken down. All I remembered was a mystifying distribution of playing time at power forward in a a pretty big stretch of games. I remember seeing Morez's body language, and thinking, "Uh oh. He's probably making his plans to move on."
And here I was happy that Illini only play Michigan once this year so that the why did Morez leave discussion would only happen once during the season. Silly me.
Why is there a need to not only exaggerate but to say outright lies when people go to make a point? There was no stretch of games where Ben played 35+ minutes. He played more than 35 in a total of 2 games (of out 35).
All it takes is one little made up thing and you can turn the truth into anything you want and create a small universe around your made up statistic. Ben averaged 25.8 minutes (started 26) to Morez 17.7 per game (started 8). If we started there we could have a fair discussion.
EDIT: Morez signed a contract with Illinois in late February/early March (was reported) after entering the starting lineup in place of Ben.
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Another Morez discussion I see lol fun times
Seens difficult to argue a Dec 6 game vs NW to be a “beginning of the end” when he goes and signs a contract with us 3 months later… JMO
Seens difficult to argue a Dec 6 game vs NW to be a “beginning of the end” when he goes and signs a contract with us 3 months later… JMO
You're right. Ben Humrichous averaging 25.8 minutes a game while our 5 star freshman gets 17.7...that's so much better than the mistaken stats I posted. And two games of Ben getting 35+ minutes while Morez languishes on the bench...that's so much better than a stretch of 3.
And as for the contract it was completely non-binding and all parties knew it. Heck, Brad made the verbal commitment to stay at OK State to his assistants and broke a contract with OK State before coming here. Not too many Illini fans had very many complaints about that.
And as for the contract it was completely non-binding and all parties knew it. Heck, Brad made the verbal commitment to stay at OK State to his assistants and broke a contract with OK State before coming here. Not too many Illini fans had very many complaints about that.
Thank you for writing this. This unfortunately is common behavior these days, and not just in sports. OP just made up his own fact (ie lied).
FWIW I agree that Ben played too much last year, but it's not the blatant difference that people suggest.
I’m sorry Morez left and I’m sorry it was acrimonious. However if we keep Morez we don’t get Mirk. And although Morez might have better counting stats and may very well be a better player, Mirk is a better fit for what we want to do offensively with his ability to stretch the floor and playmaking, while being almost as good of a rebounder as Morez.
Stings he went in conference, but not surprising given his Tai Streets connection. Nature of the beast these days. But a helluva pivot from the staff to go out and get Mirk, who I bet costs a fair bit less than Morez. Think it all worked out for the best.
Stings he went in conference, but not surprising given his Tai Streets connection. Nature of the beast these days. But a helluva pivot from the staff to go out and get Mirk, who I bet costs a fair bit less than Morez. Think it all worked out for the best.
Ben played 35 minutes against UCLA because Tre White was out. He played 35 minutes against Michigan State because KJ got two fouls in three minutes and would only play nine. And to be even more complete, Ben got 34 minutes against Washington because he had just torched Penn State for 21 and 9 in the last game.
The difference between Ben and Morez was obvious. Ben can slide over to the three if needed. Morez could not do this.
I do agree that Ben was ineffective at times last year and that it was the fault of the coaching staff that he played so much. But it certainly isn't something that should make you go and transfer. Morez was always going to be a multi-year guy and he wasn't expected to contribute a ton -- certainly not defensively -- his first year.
Every other part of your post can be argued fairly with the exception of the bolded part. I like a lot of what David has brought to our team, but there is a chasm between the rebounding, defense, and overall athleticism of Morez and what David brings to our team in these categories this season.
It’s because Ben was the board martyr last year… he had some slumps adjusting to playing in the high majors but on the whole had a decent season, and I trust the staff better than I trust this board that he was the best option to start at the start of a season. Maybe that changed as the season went on but there was a lot of funkiness, like Morez getting hurt, Will taking time to adjust also, etc that kept him in that starting position. Also I can imagine swapping lineups mid season can have unexpected consequences on morale and cohesiveness if not done right.
That’s why I was going so hard a few games ago defending Tomi and will continue to do so, I don’t want to see the same witch hunt happen to him haha I think starting a narrative about a guy and hammering it every week certainly spills into other social media channels, which then gets sent to him, his friends and family, etc…. All I’m saying is I think we’re in a spot where we can trust the coaches to figure these guys out, as they’ve made it pretty clear when to sit guys because other issues.
It’s like the guy in the other thread claiming Reid for northwestern averaged 9ppg when in reality he averaged 12. That’d be no different from saying Keaton, who currently averages 16, averages 12.
It’s okay to prove your point without bringing up false, made up data.
Defense and athleticism for sure. They're pretty close in the rebounding department. Technically, David has better numbers on the glass than Morez
Someone a couple of weeks ago claimed that bringing extreme, unrealistic language is a productive way to navigate a discussion or debate. I found that to be a quite odd perspective, since when that happens it typically takes at least a handful of messages just to get through the initial mess of misinformation (and we know how everyone here loves any discussion than persists for more than 1 page).
After saying that, I think that's enough of this sidebar for me today or else I'm gonna have to start ducking tomatoes.
Yes was just going to say.
David - 8.4 rpg, including 2.5 offensive rpg, in about 28 minutes
Morez - 7.1 rpg, including 2.4 offensive rpg, in about 24 minutes
Edit: maybe it’s just that David is getting all of the Mike Davis easy rebounds. Ha. I kid. But overall I think we are in agreement. Morez obviously better athlete and defender. Mirk better offensive player. Similar rebounding. My guess is we are getting a little more bang for our buck with David, even if Morez is better overall.
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At this point in time, to pick between Mirk and Morez, I truly don’t think you could go wrong with either. Both are great in their own right, and fill the 4spot for us. Just give me the guy that wants to be here.
It’s been quite a while since we’ve had that kind of presence at the 4. Coleman was technically a PF, but played the 5 on our E8 team.
It’s been quite a while since we’ve had that kind of presence at the 4. Coleman was technically a PF, but played the 5 on our E8 team.
I'll just add some more context here from KenPom. Offensive and Defensive Rebounding Percentage are defined as such:
Offensive rebounding percentage (OR%): This is the percentage of possible offensive rebounds a player gets and computed as PlayerOR / [%Min * (Team OR + Opp. DR)]. The denominator is scaled based on the percentage of a team’s minutes played by the player.
Defensive rebounding percentage (DR%): This is the percentage of possible defensive rebounds a player gets and computed as PlayerDR / [%Min * (Team DR + Opp. OR)]. It is generally believed that offensive rebounds are more attributable to individual effort than defensive rebounds. Due to its relative rarity, an offensive rebound is considered more valuable than a defensive rebound.
OR%
Mirk - 11.0% (190th in the country)
Morez - 12.3% (132nd)
DR%
Mirk - 21.4% (130th)
Morez - 18.4% (327th)
Now, Morez is playing alongside Mara and Yaxel who gobble up a lot of rebounds themselves. Z grabs a high percentage of defensive rebounds as well but Mirk and Z don't play all that many minutes together.
That said, Morez plays much closer to the basket on offense so he likely has more opportunities to snag offensive rebounds.
Morez is probably the better rebounder but I just think the OP was very wrong in saying there was a "chasm" between the two when it comes to rebounding.
Got to see Morez REAL close, and he is a presence. Snagged the first 3 rebounds of the game and didn't look like UW wanted any part of that battle. He did wander 5 feet from me as halftime started and gave me a very confused look as I yelled I-L-L and a lame 'cmon?' Then shortly missed a 3 badly and passed it up when he got a wide open look after the offensive rebound. Think he's limited to one miss per game. But he is super strong and quicker this season, pretty impressive to see him up close.
Attachments
It's an even swap. Two good players. Both sides are happy. Morez can still step on a Lego
EIU loses to Little Rock 74-63 Thursday night.
The game was tied 63-63 with three minutes left, Little Rock finishing the game on an 11-0 run.
The game was tied 63-63 with three minutes left, Little Rock finishing the game on an 11-0 run.
Ohhhhhh, there’s a huge difference!!! Mirk wants to be here.
He was averaging 10,3 before getting 28 against Illinois not 12. I knowcI was wrong UT he raised his average to 11.9 with that 28 points. Quite a difference than your 12 to 16.
Not a dog in this fight, but here's the data: prior to the Illinois game, he was averaging 10.9pts, 5.6ast, and 1.6reb.
After the Illinois game, he's averaging: 11.9pts, 5.5ast, 1.8reb.
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