Week of 11/3 Games Thread

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#151      
There we go, an actual rebuttal.

Why is my interpretation of the context incorrect? Did the reporter ask him a question about Illinois? The reporter asked him a question about shooting 3s and a couple dribble drives. You're injecting context that simply wasn't there in his interaction with the reporter. He was asked a specific question and gave a very cookie-cutter response.

PS, I can let this go anytime you guys want, I'm just clicking 'reply' to your objections to my original comment that people are reading in to a post-game interview a bit too much.
Since you asked… context does not necessarily require immediacy. Had the reporter asked a question about the Illinois coaching staff vs the Michigan coaching staff, the context of his answer would be obvious. Critical thinking would not be required.

However, in this case, the context of the matter has an established history, one which does require critical (but not complex) thinking. It began with Kedric Prince’s detailed conversation with Morez about how the Illini staff didn’t appreciate his all around game, especially his three point shot. Later, Morez posted a picture on social media showing him taking his lone three point shot of the season. He has since seemingly gone out of his way to repeatedly praise the current coaching staff for allowing him to evolve his game (the most recent interview was not the first instance of that). And none of this includes his father’s comments about the Illini staff.

In a vacuum, any of these instances wouldn’t mean anything in particular. But added up, and connecting point A to point B to point C, Occam’s Razor would indicate that Morez is taking not-so-subtle jabs at the previous staff — even if he doesn’t realize he’s doing so.

This simple interpretation of context is why we have the saying “me’thinks the lady doth protest too much.”
 
#152      
Even if he's not trying to directly signal out Illinois his comment about how its nice to have a coach that believes in him implies that he thought the Illinois staff didnt believe in him, especially when you add his previous comments about not thinking he would be developed properly.

I didn't perceive it this way... just thought the reported asked a specific question and Morez responded to it 🤷‍♂️ In order for it to be a jab, you have to inject the additional context, I just don't think Illinois and Brad is living rent free in Morez's head like he apparently is a lot of Illini fans
 
#153      
Since you asked… context does not necessarily require immediacy. Had the reporter asked a question about the Illinois coaching staff vs the Michigan coaching staff, the context of his answer would be obvious. Critical thinking would not be required.

However, in this case, the context of the matter has an established history, one which does require critical (but not complex) thinking. It began with Kedric Prince’s detailed conversation with Morez about how the Illini staff didn’t appreciate his all around game, especially his three point shot. Later, Morez posted a picture on social media showing him taking his lone three point shot of the season. He has since seemingly gone out of his way to repeatedly praise the current coaching staff for allowing him to evolve his game (the most recent interview was not the first instance of that). And none of this includes his father’s comments about the Illini staff.

In a vacuum, any of these instances wouldn’t mean anything in particular. But added up, and connecting point A to point B to point C, Occam’s Razor would indicate that Morez is taking not-so-subtle jabs at the previous staff — even if he doesn’t realize he’s doing so.

This simple interpretation of context is why we have the saying “me’thinks the lady doth protest too much.”

But, see? It requires all of this mental gymnastics you just went through to arrive at the conclusion that he's taking a shot at Illinois
 
#154      
I didn't perceive it this way... just thought the reported asked a specific question and Morez responded to it 🤷‍♂️ In order for it to be a jab, you have to inject the additional context, I just don't think Illinois and Brad is living rent free in Morez's head like he apparently is a lot of Illini fans
But, see? It requires all of this mental gymnastics you just went through to arrive at the conclusion that he's taking a shot at Illinois
Just the opposite. It requires mental gymnastics to not connect the obvious points. This is how presentation of evidence works. Perhaps is circumstantial, but the more of it you have, the clearer the picture becomes.

The “additional context” you mention doesn’t need to be injected. It needs to be interpreted against the greater whole.
 
#156      
Just the opposite. It requires mental gymnastics to not connect the obvious points. This is how presentation of evidence works. Perhaps is circumstantial, but the more of it you have, the clearer the picture becomes.

The “additional context” you mention doesn’t need to be injected. It needs to be interpreted against the greater whole.

There is no 'evidence'

And you're correct, the "additional context" doesn't need to be (and shouldn't be) injected here simply because people are biased via their beef with Morez

Can we just agree to disagree now? I'm tired and everyone hates this discussion lol
 
#158      
Critical thinking =/= "mental gymnastics"

Claiming to know what is going on in Morez's head is not 'critical thinking'

You guys perceive it as a jab, I don't

Any intent is being manufactured by the context you're injecting into his interaction with the reporter
 
#161      
EIU lost it's season opener to Valparasio 66-63.

EIU trailed by 13 in the second half, came back to take the lead 63-61, but could not hold on.

The Panthers had 20 turnovers.

Preston Turner lead the scoring with 16 points, Terry McMorris had 11 and 11 rebounds.

Home opener is Friday night vs. Nicholls State 7pm. Tickets are $7
 
#162      
There is no 'evidence'

And you're correct, the "additional context" doesn't need to be (and shouldn't be) injected here simply because people are biased via their beef with Morez

Can we just agree to disagree now? I'm tired and everyone hates this discussion lol
But there IS evidence, albeit circumstantial — it’s all the things Morez has said up to this point, and they have been numerous. And that evidence is what you’re choosing to ignore in your interpretation of context.

For the record, I’m not a Morez hater and I really couldve cared less about his latest comment, be it a jab or just simple praise of his current coaches. I’m sure he’s going to have a nice season at Michigan and since he’s only a sophomore, no doubt his game will improve and evolve. I wish him well, except in relation to what it means for Illinois on the court and in the standings. What drew me into this conversation was the debate over context, and I stand by my earlier boxing judge-style decision that Juiceman won convincingly with a knockout.

Seriously though… I enjoy your commentary. I give you four and a half stars. (It was five stars before today.) 😉
 
#163      
No Words Thats It GIF by Catfish MTV
 
#164      
But there IS evidence, albeit circumstantial — it’s all the things Morez has said up to this point, and they have been numerous. And that evidence is what you’re choosing to ignore in your interpretation of context.

For the record, I’m not a Morez hater and I really couldve cared less about his latest comment, be it a jab or just simple praise of his current coaches. I’m sure he’s going to have a nice season at Michigan and since he’s only a sophomore, no doubt his game will improve and evolve. I wish him well, except in relation to what it means for Illinois on the court and in the standings. What drew me into this conversation was the debate over context, and I stand by my earlier boxing judge-style decision that Juiceman won convincingly with a knockout.

Seriously though… I enjoy your commentary. I give you four and a half stars. (It was five stars before today.) 😉

I'm not ignoring he and his father's comments from what is now a while ago, I'm just not applying that as 'context' to his interaction with the reporter (now months after the previous comments), because I think its old news and both sides have obviously moved on

I feel like the tone of this discussion has improved, I enjoy all of you and I'm glad you've inserted some humor here, thank you lol
 
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#165      
Claiming to know what is going on in Morez's head is not 'critical thinking'

You guys perceive it as a jab, I don't

Any intent is being manufactured by the context you're injecting into his interaction with the reporter
Living life this way would be so boring. I don't know how you'd get any enjoyment from art or literature.

What is this painting about? Well gee, it's named after a town in Spain, so maybe Picasso just likes that town? I can't claim to know what he was thinking.

What is that movie about? Old dude died, and said a word on his deathbed. A bunch of irrelevant stuff happened. Then we found out the word was a sled. Guess he wanted to go sledding.

What was that book about? Kid floats down river in raft, hijinks ensue.

On the other hand, I am glad to know that when my wife says "It's fine" I have nothing to worry about. Certainly not going to do mental gymnastics about it.
 
#166      
I'm not ignoring he and his father's comments from what is now a while ago, I'm just not applying that as 'context' to his interaction with the reporter (now months after the previous comments), because I think its old news and both sides have obviously moved on

I feel like the tone of this discussion has improved, I enjoy all of you and I'm glad you've inserted some humor here, thank you lol

You think its old news and have moved on but Morez and his dad seem like the kind of people to hold on to stuff like that. Its only been a couple months after all so pretty fresh in the grand scheme of things.
 
#167      
Oh my God !! Please stop the madness. You lost this debate and continue to make yourself look silly.
 
#168      
Since you asked… context does not necessarily require immediacy. Had the reporter asked a question about the Illinois coaching staff vs the Michigan coaching staff, the context of his answer would be obvious. Critical thinking would not be required.

However, in this case, the context of the matter has an established history, one which does require critical (but not complex) thinking. It began with Kedric Prince’s detailed conversation with Morez about how the Illini staff didn’t appreciate his all around game, especially his three point shot. Later, Morez posted a picture on social media showing him taking his lone three point shot of the season. He has since seemingly gone out of his way to repeatedly praise the current coaching staff for allowing him to evolve his game (the most recent interview was not the first instance of that). And none of this includes his father’s comments about the Illini staff.

In a vacuum, any of these instances wouldn’t mean anything in particular. But added up, and connecting point A to point B to point C, Occam’s Razor would indicate that Morez is taking not-so-subtle jabs at the previous staff — even if he doesn’t realize he’s doing so.

This simple interpretation of context is why we have the saying “me’thinks the lady doth protest too much.”
I'm not mad at Morez and honestly I'll still watch him today and find myself rooting for him.

I've been watching and keeping up with his progression since he was a sophomore in Highschool. At this point, I'm a fan and want Mr. Illinois to succeed (not against us). Like you said, we knew this was a possibility when he didn't start along with TA's exit.

What I have took exception with?

He signed a contract to stay that detailed what his NIL would be.
He was also told that his role and usage would drastically change going into this year.
So he was well aware and okay with where he felt his progression and usage was heading. Even after the guy who recruited him here, was clearly not coming back, btw. (Kinda rare in recent Illinois history considering Chester's recruits)

Then back channeling happens and Michigan offers you 2 million dollars.

My opinion? Take it young man. Truly, if my son was offered the same I'd tell him to do it. Especially since Morez projects as a great college player/fringe League guy, but I hope he proves me wrong.

Instead of just taking the money, and letting it be a business decision as we've seen soo often?
Morez and his father went to the Illinois media and social media and started to frame it solely as a developmental issue in the Illini coaching system and how Illinois didn't believe in him even though he proved it daily at practice....
Is that true though? If Illinois is ANYTHING it's analytical.
You want me to believe that the Illinois staff tracked every single shot you took in practice utilizing the NOAH system and they are just holding you back? If he was shooting the ball well in practice, they would have given him the green light in game. Brad has been surprisingly lenient with freshmen in the past even Sincere Harris took 3s.

Illinois definitely made mistakes with Morez IMO. Mostly in starting Ben over him.

My biggest issue with Morez is not that he left or took more money it's that he has consistently made it a usage and development issue publicly when privately....to those who watched the timeline play out....

It felt like a business decision. (And that's okay)



I think he should have went full heel btw and just said it straight up. Michigan offered me 2 million dollars, Illinois didn't. 🤷
 
#169      
Living life this way would be so boring. I don't know how you'd get any enjoyment from art or literature.

What is this painting about? Well gee, it's named after a town in Spain, so maybe Picasso just likes that town? I can't claim to know what he was thinking.

What is that movie about? Old dude died, and said a word on his deathbed. A bunch of irrelevant stuff happened. Then we found out the word was a sled. Guess he wanted to go sledding.

What was that book about? Kid floats down river in raft, hijinks ensue.

On the other hand, I am glad to know that when my wife says "It's fine" I have nothing to worry about. Certainly not going to do mental gymnastics about it.

Yes, you are allowed to read into the comments however you'd like, of course

All I ever pointed out was that's precisely what we're doing

Sometimes my wife says "its fine" and its not, sometimes she says "its fine" and it is, I can't claim to ever know what she is thinking though, so I tread very carefully just in case 😁
 
#171      
I'm not ignoring he and his father's comments from what is now a while ago, I'm just not applying that as 'context' to his interaction with the reporter (now months after the previous comments), because I think its old news and both sides have obviously moved on

I feel like the tone of this discussion has improved, I enjoy all of you and I'm glad you've inserted some humor here, thank you lol
Morez has played for two coaching staffs in college basketball.

When he left the first to play for the second, he mentioned that part of his reason for leaving is the first staff didn’t allow him to play the way he wanted to play (on the perimeter / shooting 3s).

A little while later, in an interview after his first game with the new staff he says, “I’m glad to have a coaching staff that has allowed me to evolve my game”.

Isn't it possible that means the first staff he played for did not allow him to evolve his game in his eyes?
 
#172      
Morez has played for two coaching staffs in college basketball.

When he left the first to play for the second, he mentioned that part of his reason for leaving is the first staff didn’t allow him to play the way he wanted to play (on the perimeter / shooting 3s).

A little while later, in an interview after his first game with the new staff he says, “I’m glad to have a coaching staff that has allowed me to evolve my game”.

Isn't it possible that means the first staff he played for did not allow him to evolve his game in his eyes?

It is possible, I've not said that it isn't possible

Totally agree it is 'possible', its more than possible, he said it himself

Is this single quote in a vacuum a shot at Illinois/Brad? I dunno, I just doubt every time he answers a reporters question about 3 point shots or dribble drives that he starts raging internally about Brad's reluctance to let him do those things last season
 
#173      
I'm not ignoring he and his father's comments from what is now a while ago, I'm just not applying that as 'context' to his interaction with the reporter (now months after the previous comments), because I think its old news and both sides have obviously moved on

I feel like the tone of this discussion has improved, I enjoy all of you and I'm glad you've inserted some humor here, thank you lol
I’ll add one more distinction… this is not the first time recently that he’s made such comments. In his recent interviews, the topic of praising the coaching staff for allowing him to evolve his game has been repeated theme. It hasn’t been been a one-off that’s been months separated from his earlier comments.

Even in this latest interview, the reporter’s statement (it wasn’t a question, per se,) only slightly jibes with his answer.

REPORTER: “The spin moves, the drives — you missed a couple of threes — but it looked like everything was on line for you.”

MOREZ : “Yeah, that’s part of the game. I ain’t trippin’ on that. But I’m just blessed to be here with this coaching staff, y’know, believing in me, letting me evolve my game, letting me play. I appreciate those guys.”

Notice how the reporter complimented his full game but Morez was immediately fixated on missing those two threes. He then went into his praise for the staff letting him evolve his game. In a one-off interview, that could be interpreted as just player-speak. But given that this is his repeated theme, it doesn’t take a psychologist to make a reasonable determination of where his mind is.

It’s kinda like when you break up with a girl then get a new girlfriend. When you’re highlighting all the things you like about the new girl you’re really commenting on what you didn’t like about the old one.”
 
#174      
it doesn’t take a psychologist to make a reasonable determination of where his mind is

Even a psychologist cannot read Morez's mind

It’s kinda like when you break up with a girl then get a new girlfriend. When you’re highlighting all the things you like about the new girl you’re really commenting on what you didn’t like about the old one.”

Can't relate to this 🤷‍♂️ I have always had the ability to move on pretty easily

We're all unique and have different ways we approach things or perceive things in life, and that's cool :cool:
 
#175      
Any guesses who will be the first Big Ten team to pick up a loss? Really hoping it isn't us! Lol. Here are the upcoming non-cupcake games for Big Ten teams over the next two weeks, using the current KenPom Rankings to give folks at least some context (and AP Rankings in parentheses).

Friday, November 7
#88 Georgetown at #37 Maryland

Saturday, November 8
(AP #14) #26 Arkansas at (AP #22) #34 Michigan State

Sunday, November 9
#38 Indiana vs. #47 Marquette (Chicago, IL)
#43 Washington at #21 Baylor

Tuesday, November 11
(AP #10) #13 Texas Tech at (AP #17) #5 Illinois
#58 Wake Forest vs. (AP #7) #9 Michigan (Detroit, MI)

Wednesday, November 12
#67 Minnesota at #29 Missouri

Thursday, November 13
(AP #1) #1 Purdue at (AP #15) #24 Alabama

Friday, November 14
#70 Xavier at #40 Iowa
(AP #7) #9 Michigan at #92 TCU
#59 Northwestern at #78 DePaul
(AP #13) #10 Arizona vs. (AP #12) #20 UCLA (Inglewood, CA)
#43 Washington at #153 Washington State

Saturday, November 15
#37 Maryland at #47 Marquette
#55 Oklahoma vs. #50 Nebraska (Sioux Falls, SD)

Sunday, November 16
#71 Notre Dame at #35 Ohio State

I wouldn't be shocked if Arkansas won in East Lansing, though I hope that doesn't happen. However, I am betting on Sparty and my answer is that Indiana loses to Marquette at the United Center ... just seems like the type of game where their fans will show up in droves and get hyped up and then lose, looking like crap. :ROFLMAO: The first game where I would be shocked if the Big Ten team won is Minnesota's road game at Missouri.
 
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