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Not Sale, but maybe Quintana.
Still think you build this rotation around Sale, Q, and Rodon and hopefully Fulmer. And trade prospects for hitters.
White Sox 2015 Thread
Not Sale, but maybe Quintana.
Still think you build this rotation around Sale, Q, and Rodon and hopefully Fulmer. And trade prospects for hitters.
If I were calling the shots, I would consider dealing him. But I don't think 2 position prospects would be enough unless they were both top 10 type prospects. Dealing Sale, as sick as it would make me, is the one move that could instantly turn the team around. But you would need 2 soon-to-be AS-caliber players in return.
The problem is that we don't have prospects to trade. Our system is barren except for Anderson, and maybe Montas and Fulmer. But the jury is out on all of these guys to be honest. We're not getting anything even decent for any of our prospects.
The only guys we have that will bring back significant pieces are Sale, Rodon, Quintana, and Abreu. We might be able to get an OK prospect for Robertson and Alexei, but nothing that will change the trajectory of the franchise.
Poor drafting, whether through failures in evaluation or an unwillingness to spend money, have really put this organization in a bad spot.
As for Beckham and Longoria, poor Bob has a crush on him. But really, there was some truth in his post. Unfortunately, the post should have been used to bring to light how diminished a player Longoria appears to be rather than how good of a player Beckham is.
Not to derail here, but I can't agree with this.
Longoria has posted an OPS of .772, a wRC of 120, and a WAR of 2.0 this year per fangraphs, good for 4th in the AL.
Beckham has posted an OPS of .636, a wRC of 75, and a WAR of a whopping 0.0 this year per fangraphs, placing him 13th in the AL. Pathetically enough, he's still been much more productive than Conor Gillaspie, he of the -0.3 WAR.
Beckham has been terrible, Longoria has been pretty good. The two are nowhere near comparable.
Considering his contract, I think we could get more than 2 prospects for him. I think it's possible under the right circumstance that we could get a historic haul.
If we keep him, how are we ever going to build around him? IF we get lucky and field a decent team of position players, it wouldn't be in time from when his contract is up, and more importantly, it definitely won't be in time to take advantage of his best years (which is probably right now). His value at the present is as high as anybody in baseball.
Bob Christiansen
- 4th & Chalmers, a few years ago...Now? Weeki Wach
Ah yes, Bob, he of eternal optimism, seeing life through rose-colored glasses...almost a Wrigleyesque naivete...
Next time Ramirez ducks out of the box from an inside change-up as if it were Nolan's best 102 MPH fastball coming at his chin, I will reach through the TV and strangle him...
Next time Ramirez ducks out of the box from an inside change-up as if it were Nolan's best 102 MPH fastball coming at his chin, I will reach through the TV and strangle him...
Sorry, skipped right over this. Here's a rundown:
Off (Offensive Runs Above Average): Number of runs above or below average a player has been worth offensively, combining Batting Runs and BsR.
Def (Defensive Runs Above Average): Number of runs above or below average a player has been worth on defense, combining Fielding Runs (Total Zone before 2002, UZR after) and the positional adjustment.
You can't deal Chris Sale unless you get some team to give you a preposterous return. To deal a 26-year-old, top-5 pitcher locked down with a ridiculously team friendly contract you have to get back multiple young, somewhat-established position players. Really, considering what pitching costs on the open market, "prospects" wouldn't cut it.
Typically the teams willing to go all-in with a deal like that (presumably to make a WS run) aren't offering up their own everyday players because it kind of defeats the purpose.
Yes, you could get more than two. I think that is clear. But, two of those guys have to be immediate impact types of players. You then throw in a couple more distant or more mediocre prospects to finish the deal.
Look at the FA lists. Far more pitching is available than hitting. If you look at the Sox situation through that prism, it makes a bit more sense.
Certainly, we would need a dramatic return. But I do not think the idea is as far fetched as it sounds when you first consider it.
Well, in the last week plus, one has moved in a positive direction while the other has moved in the other direction. Longoria is the better player, no one would argue otherwise. But, my point, is that the days of Longoria being considered an MVP caliber player are gone. He's adequate, maybe slightly better, but he's not an All-Star any longer.
Not necessarily far-fetched, just counterproductive. Let's say you get 2-3 high quality prospects. The odds are pretty good that combined they'll have a lesser impact than Sale. Top prospects fizzle a lot, they're much more likely to be replacement level players than stars.
First, replacement level would be a step in the right direction for this team.
Second, you're only looking at part of the equation. You have to look at the combination of the ready to produce players + the pitchers on the FA market + pitchers in our system and score that against Sale + the position players on the FA market + Anderson (our ONLY position player prospect).
We can't replace Sale, but we can run out a decent rotation. We have no ability to put a reasonable lineup on the field without a trade. If you can do it with Quintana, great. I'd love that. But I don't think you can.
Now, I'm not saying to trade Sale. I'm saying be open to the possibility of changing the trajectory of the organization. If someone is willing to pay up to have a super-ace on the mound in game 1 of the playoffs, you listen.
What's happened to Avi Garcia? It looked like he was going to be a breakout candidate this year, and recently he's looked lost up there. Very disappointing.
Bob Christiansen
- 4th & Chalmers, a few years ago...Now? Weeki Wach
Yep, seen that too. Nobody is putting any real wood on the ball, even Abreu, IMO. Has every team figured out how to pitch us? I mean, lately, we are making every team's starting pitchers look unhittable...
You've got to be kidding me.
Great post.
Bob Christiansen
- 4th & Chalmers, a few years ago...Now? Weeki Wach
A good friend of mine is from Philly. He's been nice so far. I don't expect that to last...
Bob Christiansen
- 4th & Chalmers, a few years ago...Now? Weeki Wach
Tonight's game. Sad...just sad...
Sigh. This is just total frustration. I don't know how Ventura has not been fired. You preach to your fan base that you should be going to the playoffs with all these acquisitions we've made and we're now I think 10 games under .500. Somebody needs to be held accountable for all these struggles. It's incredibly disheartening to see Sale pitch like he did and our offense fails to help the guy out.
Soxfreak64
- Bloomington
Root for Q!
That I can do. Lord knows he deserves it.
Bob Christiansen
- 4th & Chalmers, a few years ago...Now? Weeki Wach
Sox won....