Wisconsin 91, Illinois 88 OT Postgame

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#601      
BatteredWifeSchwartz
Presented without context

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See y'all in March. Hopefully we can make a bit of a run so we don't spend the entire offseason arguing.
 
#602      
Second place is 1st loser
For those that have lost their minds completely and have had the hottest of hot takes, go take a shower, have some tea and start coming up conclusions that reasonable eyes have seen as issues since July.

This was never, ever going to be a good team defensively. You don't need to know a ton to look at this roster and see that there is definitely skill and there are scoring threats, but unfortunately, there are two sides to the floor. Our guards are slow, they look stuck in mud against quick guards, they get broken down consistently and it collapses any x's and o's that any coach in the world could come up with.

We coughed up 15 point leads, TWICE, in the same game. Do you know how unlikely that is? We blew a 23 point lead this year, as well and equally as unlikely. What did it? Quick, shifty guards on UCLA and Wisconsin gave our guards fits. We don't have one player on the roster capable of staying in front of their man.

Ultimately, the free throw line beat us. At this end of regulation, they were 19 of 20, we were 8 of 14, missing from ends. If we shoot 70%(including front ends), we're preparing for Michigan right now. This is not the first time where foul shooting beat us. Was it Wisconsin or MSU where we lost in OT shooting 55% from the line?

The rest of the stats were fairly even. Wisconsin shot 10 more threes than us and both teams shot under 25%.

Our guys can't blame anyone but themselves. I know that Brad stuck up for his guys when criticism of losing close games came up. This tape today isn't going to quiet those with the torches.
 
#603      
Rap47
Could one of the stats people on here post the plus minus numbers for this game.
 
#605      
EmeraldCityIllini
FloridaMan said:
I mean, it really should be. This is year nine, and Brad is making in excess of $5M a year with a, what, $7-8M annual NIL expenditure? Top half of the B10 NIL and top 2 amongst league coaches salaries. Fourth place league finishes and first weekend exits are not the return the program should expect. That is the reality of this business.

I'm not arguing for his ouster at all after this season. But to dismiss the question would be foolish. I'm pretty certain there will be some rumblings amongst the larger donors if that were to happen. Again, reality.
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You say that so confidently - but is it reality? How many coaches can you name - that weren't embroiled in scandal - that went to 6 NCAA tournaments in a row that were fired?

I'll even make it easier, how many coaches can you name that went to 3 NCAA tournaments in a row who were fired?

I'm ofcourse leaving out context that would make answering those questions even more difficult, like the fact he went to an elite 8 just 2 years ago. He's yet to be lower than a 9 seed which means a ton of regular season winning, he's yet to lose to a double digit seed so no catastrophic failures like Painter or Bennett or Lloyd, etc.

Calipari is really the only recent answer that comes to mind for me? And that required a catastrophic flameout to Oakland in round 1, a 22-12 season the year prior, and a missed tournament all together in 2021-22 at Kentucky.

It is absolutely not the reality.
 
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#607      
Second place is 1st loser
TooHot4Tots said:
Up 15 a couple of times. UCLA not a good enough wake up call? No matter his roster, its the same bs. Lots of upset donors
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Make free throws. They probably take 500 a day. To step up there and miss critical ones, while Blackwell and Boyd combined missed one....that's the game. Those are free points and we got outscored by 16 in that column.....in a game we lost by 3 in OT.

Make the freebies and leave with a W. Miss a bunch and this is the result.
 
#608      
AndyKaufmanstutor
Keisersose said:
This.

At 1:59 left in regulation, Tomi posted uo, we threw it in to him and he made an easy shot.

We are using these guys wrong. So frustrating. So stubborn and or unable to adapt.

If a team goes on a run, best way to stop it is to get an easy shot. Like the one I just described.

But we choose to continue to take threes or drive 1 into a congested lane.
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100%
 
#609      
Second place is 1st loser
Goillinikobd said:
Question
In the first seconds, our best guard goes Mano a Mano against their best guard and WINS the encounter
Both get technicals for jawing
We bench our guy and their guy lights us up for 30+
Which coach won that battle?
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Boswell picked up a 2nd foul about 30 seconds later. What exactly did you want to see happen?
 
#611      
Second place is 1st loser
Julie Meinart said:
At least he is not afraid to shoot.
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When he's 8 of 18, not to far removed from a 7 of 17 and 5 of 15.....being more selective might need to be in the cards. Not sure how you alter the mindset after 30 games? Keaton is giving his all. Just seems to be running on empty.

His shots to end halves have no prayers of going in. Between that and him getting physically beat.... he's really struggling to the finish line.

I do think that Boyd got in his head. My fiance and I were right there in section 213, row 1 and we had a perfect view of Boyd jawing with him, then Keaton pointing up at the scoreboard(when we were up 6) saying "look at the score".

His emotions got the best of him.
 
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#612      
Fly Illini Fly!
Second place is 1st loser said:
Make free throws. They probably take 500 a day. To step up there and miss critical ones, while Blackwell and Boyd combined missed one....that's the game. Those are free points and we got outscored by 16 in that column.....in a game we lost by 3 in OT.

Make the freebies and leave with a W. Miss a bunch and this is the result.
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Mirkovic to me is one that’s a really good FT shooter EXCEPT when it really counts in the final moments. He hasn’t made them in the most decisive moments (including the first WISC game) but is 79% on the season.

Overall I thought he had a nice game — 19/5/5. He’s the lone guy (maybe Stojakovic as well) that’s capable of operating out of a post-up on the low block.
 
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#613      
Roundball Sage
Johnny Lawrence said:
If this team loses to (another) lower seed in the real tournament Josh is going to have to have some difficult conversations.
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Chicago Bulls fans might remember that a Coach named Doug Collins was able to help turn around the Bulls (sagging) fortunes but he could not get them over the last hump to the top. The Zenmaster was then brought in and we all know what happened next. And then five more times. (And STILL could have been more).

Thought Experiment: Perhaps there are College coaches that can turn a team around (to a point) but can’t get them over the final hump?
 
#614      
steveinspringfield
For 1) comparing college to the NBA is so hysterical. For 2) we do not have Michael Jordan on our roster for the next 10 years. For 3) we have the most BIG wins of any team in the last 7 years.
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People remember CHAMPIONSHIPS (maybe Final Fours) not how many total games you won.
 
#616      
Keisersose
Roll the ball out and hope something good happens. It's our go to play.
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Yep. Works pretty well when you have TSJ. As awesome as Wagler has been, he’s no TSJ.
 
#617      
FloridaMan
You say that so confidently - but is it reality? How many coaches can you name - that weren't embroiled in scandal - that went to 6 NCAA tournaments in a row that were fired?

I'll even make it easier, how many coaches can you name that went to 3 NCAA tournaments in a row who were fired?

I'm ofcourse leaving out context that would make answering those questions even more difficult, like the fact he went to an elite 8 just 2 years ago. He's yet to be lower than a 9 seed which means a ton of regular season winning, he's yet to lose to a double digit seed so no catastrophic failures like Painter or Bennett or Lloyd, etc.

Calipari is really the only recent answer that comes to mind for me? And that required a catastrophic flameout to Oakland in round 1, a 22-12 season the year prior, and a missed tournament all together in 2021-22 at Kentucky.

It is absolutely not the reality.
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The original poster asked if the seat gets hot. I said I am not arguing for his firing. Nice straw man though. The seat will be hot. That is reality.
 
#618      
the juiceman cometh
This is where I'm at. Today may have finally broken me. If this team loses to (another) lower seed in the real tournament Josh is going to have to have some difficult conversations.
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Right on! John Groce never lost to a lower seed in the Tournament! Not once!
 
#619      
altgeld88
ChiefGritty said:
There is an actual basketball reason we aren't elite anymore, Tomi and Andrej being guys the defense can sag off now makes us defendable both on a game-long and individual possession basis, which allows teams to go on runs against us. When we had knockdown shooters 1-5 that was impossible.

But that truly does seem beside the point.

What an absolutely soulless, robotic basketball team. It's like it was created by ChatGPT. I was there, it's even more dramatic in person, this team just does not have a personality at all.

A friend I went to the game with made a great point, in playing a style like the modern NBA, this team has embedded the who-cares ethos of the modern NBA.

It's a guarantee we are going to fold like a cheap tent the first time we're put under any pressure in the tournament, which is likely the 3-6 game but could just as easily be the 3-14 game.

If we could play every team in a 1,000 game series, ideally in some sort of computer simulation, we'd win the national title. In a single flesh and blood basketball game with everything on the line we'd lose to anyone within shouting distance of the bubble. What a shame for this program and fanbase, but this is an affront to the sport itself, the game is not supposed to be like this.
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But they weren't like this in January or early Feb. I saw them in person v. PSU in Philly and then in East Lansing and they were a completely different team both times, as they were @ Purdue and @ Nebraska. Then I saw them again last Sunday in College Park and from the tip I wondered what was wrong with them.

Something is seriously off. Is it the diluted rotations? Today reminded me a bit of the home game v. Nebraska in Dec., which they should have won and in which they simply didn't rebound. Same thing today. BU's comment that they get casual defensively after mounting a lead hits home. So recruit some guys who give a s&%t.

It's infuriating.
 
#620      
BatteredWifeSchwartz
Question
In the first seconds, our best guard goes Mano a Mano against their best guard and WINS the encounter
Both get technicals for jawing
We bench our guy and their guy lights us up for 30+
Which coach won that battle?
Click to expand...

You forgot our guy picked up his 2nd foul literally the next possession. He had to sit.
 
#621      
OrangeKrush1981
Unless Wagler goes Carmelo 2.0.

… and Brad is a great coach.
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Wagler is an extraordinary story and a triumph of Illini athletics. We all should, and do, celebrate that.

As a very slender athlete lacking an exceptional lean, fast-twitch body type, he has -- in his true freshman season -- been incredible.

That said, and exactly not one miserable iota of criticism directed at our young star here, the competition has sniffed out ways to slow him down.

And so the leader of this team, the one given the grueling task of winning during winning time, has in the last month been stymied.

This team loses one-possession games -- a rebound here, a free throw there (adapted from Underwood's repeated post-game comments) -- because (this is me, not Underwood) our go-to guy is a kid. No one ought to blame a fabulous young kid for not being a full-grown man. No one does. But our squad most likely drops overtime games because our go-to guy is a very young and skinny and learning superstar.

Is Brad a great coach? No. He is a very good coach.
 
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#622      
Heisenbobble
Up 15 a couple of times. UCLA not a good enough wake up call? No matter his roster, its the same bs. Lots of upset donors
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I have no idea if you’re just spouting off or if you know donors are upset, but I hope it’s the latter. This isn’t acceptable.
 
#623      
EmeraldCityIllini
EmeraldCityIllini said:
You say that so confidently - but is it reality? How many coaches can you name - that weren't embroiled in scandal - that went to 6 NCAA tournaments in a row that were fired?

I'll even make it easier, how many coaches can you name that went to 3 NCAA tournaments in a row who were fired?

I'm ofcourse leaving out context that would make answering those questions even more difficult, like the fact he went to an elite 8 just 2 years ago. He's yet to be lower than a 9 seed which means a ton of regular season winning, he's yet to lose to a double digit seed so no catastrophic failures like Painter or Bennett or Lloyd, etc.

Calipari is really the only recent answer that comes to mind for me? And that required a catastrophic flameout to Oakland in round 1, a 22-12 season the year prior, and a missed tournament all together in 2021-22 at Kentucky.

It is absolutely not the reality.
Click to expand...

And ill add, the main point here. this is all in the context of the "hot seat" comment, remember.

Everytime we do this on the board, we throw out a bunch of replacement names that are either wildly unrealistic, or have far more warts than brad underwood. I was hearing Pat Kelsey, Sean Miller, and Musselman the past 2 years for crying out loud. It's not to say you should accept certain results, but a lot of illini fans do need a healthy dose of reality of what throughout the landscape has constituted a coach losing his job, but also what is realistic to expect if you move off a coach.
 
#624      
OrangeKrush1981
altgeld88 said:
But they weren't like this in January or early Feb. I saw them in person v. PSU in Philly and then in East Lansing and they were a completely different team both times, as they were @ Purdue and @ Nebraska. Then I saw them again last Sunday in College Park and from the tip I wondered what was wrong with them.

Something is seriously off. Is it the diluted rotations? Today reminded me a bit of the home game v. Nebraska in Dec., which they should have won and in which they simply didn't rebound. Same thing today.

It's infuriating.
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I agree. I am concerned that the Fighting Illini don't show the fight one might expect from all of the carefully-crafted language about "learning from this loss" and "competing for championships." It is evident that the players have learned the script, this season and for those in previous Underwood campaigns. But have they actually taken to heart what the words mean? Has Underwood actually made them believe in the true meaning of the words and culture he has preached?

No. Sigh.
 
#625      
Rap47
They gave up the big lead twice because they kept shooting threes and stopped going inside each time they got those leads.
 
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