Just got home from a business conference all day and watched the game. If this team makes it out the first weekend I will be happy they don't have enough to win it all. So a Sweet 16 visit is a great thing for this group of guys I think that's the ceiling. The defense is putrid nobody even resembles a dog on this team but maybe Kylan and Mirk. Not enough muscle, hustle, or defense to beat the top teams in the tourney make it out the first weekend I'm happy.
Wisconsin 91, Illinois 88 OT Postgame
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This is the most fundamental disconnect I think between "pro underwood" posters and lets just call "more skeptical underwood supporters" - you think were merely happy with the tournament results - that it's no discussion. I think you think we're happy with "just" an elite 8.
I can't speak for others, but to me, when i defend Underwood it's because there is quite a lot of history in this sport that shows when you make the tournament as a top 5 seed consistently, you are just eventually gonna break through - its Jay Wright, its Sampson, its Painter, its bennett, its about to be Tomi Lloyd. And there's not a ton of history that shows coaches who pretty much always have a top 20-ish team, only end up with one second weekend on their resume in the long haul. There is a reason Josh Whitman has told you he thinks about this job as bites as the apple.
I need to be better understanding we all got the same north star here. But fans who constantly reminds us that results like today arent acceptable, that questions need to be asked about job security, and that "the reality of the business" shows coaches like this at programs like Illinois are shown the door is candidly just very wrong.
All of this is to say, I'm not overly sentimental here. I'm willing to part with any coach at any time if a name pops up that Illinois can obtain.
You're doing it wrong.
Lose = outcoached
Win = anyone can win if they have [INSERT BEST PLAYER'S NAME HERE]
Illini fans stop crying and complaining. This team is right where they are supposed to be from being ranked 4th in the BIG10 pre-season. Wagler was definitely the big surprise but Boswell and Tomi have been terrible and inconsistent. I say it all the time that Underwood definitely screwed up when he picked Boswell over Fears Jr I predicted Illinois going 20-11 at the beginning of the season. Let's stop recruiting European players because you can't win at a high level with them because they are soft and don't have athleticism. You guys got fooled by that 12 game winning streak in the middle of the season. This team has had problems with really good backcourt all year long and that won't change in the BIG DANCE! Give me 1 win in the BIG DANCE and I'm cool with that outcome.
LouHenson
- Naples Florida
its extreme, but there was a SI article about "has he reached his ceiling". I think the answer is yes. This is (in his words) his team at Illinois, and this is what it looks like? BU got us back on the map and it will be impossible to fire him, but he is 65 I sure would like to see him retire and TU get a shot someplace else.
BU's indignation to a reporter who asked a very reasonable question after the Maryland game comes back to haunt him.
Instead of being transparent and realistic about the plausible question, his "righteous" fury prevailed. Now, he has egg on his face.
I hope he gets asked the same damn question again.
It's obvious the coach, his staff and players did not learn a thing from the last loss to the Badgers. They did not even learn a thing from the ugly, horrendous and unacceptable loss to UCLA in Los Angeles. Where is the defense? It's infuriating--do something! Conclusion? They are who they are, and there's no magic formula. They're not "kicking anything up a notch" come next week.
Who knows? Maybe this team just needs to play someone other than a Big Ten school.
R1 will be a win. R2 should be a win (instead of 85 - 15% chance, it's a 60 - 40% chance). S16? The #2 seed should beat the #3 seed Illinois.
To me losing in the S16 would be a huge disappointment, especially with this year's team and especially with the expectations Illinois's own coaching staff has put on themselves.
A S16 is not enough to call for BU to get fired, but at some point, Whitman needs to hold BU accountable just like BU wants to hold his players accountable.
He's getting paid a lot of money. If he exits in R2, then let the fireworks commence.
Instead of being transparent and realistic about the plausible question, his "righteous" fury prevailed. Now, he has egg on his face.
I hope he gets asked the same damn question again.
It's obvious the coach, his staff and players did not learn a thing from the last loss to the Badgers. They did not even learn a thing from the ugly, horrendous and unacceptable loss to UCLA in Los Angeles. Where is the defense? It's infuriating--do something! Conclusion? They are who they are, and there's no magic formula. They're not "kicking anything up a notch" come next week.
Who knows? Maybe this team just needs to play someone other than a Big Ten school.
R1 will be a win. R2 should be a win (instead of 85 - 15% chance, it's a 60 - 40% chance). S16? The #2 seed should beat the #3 seed Illinois.
To me losing in the S16 would be a huge disappointment, especially with this year's team and especially with the expectations Illinois's own coaching staff has put on themselves.
A S16 is not enough to call for BU to get fired, but at some point, Whitman needs to hold BU accountable just like BU wants to hold his players accountable.
He's getting paid a lot of money. If he exits in R2, then let the fireworks commence.
Homecoming 2019
- Chicago
Not fair to expect us to find a literal dog who plays basketball like Andres
I prefer "realistic, pragmatic, observent" to "doom and gloom." But, anyway, I'll take the bait.
Let me ask you, what have you seen over the past month - the most important part of the season - that leads you to think we are destined for a sustained run in the toughest tournament of the season filled with close games, tough individual players that are hard to guard; along with the fact that we have not had real success in it in the past 20 years minus one season with one of the best pure athletes ever to wear an Illini uniform? How long, in this environment of college sports with the amount of money being invested, do you stick with something that is continually contributing to the ongoing frustration of a fanbase that has been one of the most loyal, supporting fanbases in all of the sport when you regularly have the tallest, one of the most talented rosters, etc, etc in all of basketball? How long are you willing to accept the continual dismissal by most of those who follow the sport when discussing the best of the best?
The Bo Pelini conundrum. Could it be worse? Absolutely. But could it be better, especially in the post season? Absolutely. All depends on your risk tolerance.
Post of the Day, imo!
Won’t disagree with that
On another topic...Keaton Wagler is a great freshman and has had an awesome season. However, I don't think jumping to the NBA after one year is the right move for him. He needs a full off-season of conditioning and a lot of time in the weight room getting stronger. He's been pushed around a lot this year and if he gets stronger, a lot of that pushing won't be as effective on him and his skill in driving to the basket will increase along with his draft stock. If he jumps this early, he'll likely spend a lot of time in the G-league and his career won't take off as quickly as it probably would after another year of development in college.
I said this about both our NBA drafted freshman last year and I still think both would have benefitted greatly from at least another year.
I said this about both our NBA drafted freshman last year and I still think both would have benefitted greatly from at least another year.
You like straw men, I see. Although a few have suggested throwing in the towel on this season, I have certainly not done so. I doubt you have done so either. Still, the mirror is a powerful tool for self-assessment.
Not sure I totally understand what you are saying about programs like Illinois, but I respect your viewpoint. It's just, like, how long do you accept good (sometimes great) regular seasons with inexplicable losses sprinkled in every year that derail title chances and little to show for it come tournament time? We just always seem to wear down throughout a season and fall back to average by the tournament (yes, excepting 23-24) for some reason. It's completely deflating for fans who invest in this team year after year.
Can I just get real for a second. Brad has done a nice job to bring us back from where we were.
I'm going to equate this to the late '80s early 90s Bulls. Doug Collins did a fantastic job of getting the Bulls into a position where they were in the playoffs. We need a phill Jackson who is going to make us the title contender. Brad is not that guy.
I'm going to equate this to the late '80s early 90s Bulls. Doug Collins did a fantastic job of getting the Bulls into a position where they were in the playoffs. We need a phill Jackson who is going to make us the title contender. Brad is not that guy.
Yes, you did say that. And I was simply annoyed by the word "Torvik" I now see.
You did make that clear, the counterpoint to the counterpoint. Sorry.
This post sums it up. Also, gave up too many offensive rebounds down the stretch.
Might be one of the most hilarious takes I've read on here. A salesperson who was top 95% in the country would be fired for failing to reach the top 1%? LOL. In reality the manager who made that decision would be fired for losing a high performer when his star salesperson told him to shove it and went to a competitor.
Share the data you're looking at. I am interested to see this.
Ill take my shot.
I'm sure you're really good at your job, but the competition for finding a top flight college basketball coach who has you in the running for a national title year in and year out is a far more difficult find than a sales rep who hits quota.
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Kelvin Sampson, Matt Painter, Tommy Lloyd -- no National Championship (yet)
Jay Wright, Tony Bennett -- yes, National Championship
I think Jay Wright is a significantly better coach than any of the other (excellent) coaches listed.
The Peter Principle, a 1969 book by Laurence J. Peter and Raymond Hull, argues that in a hierarchy, employees are promoted based on their success in previous roles until they reach a position where they are no longer competent, at which point they remain stuck
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