Wisconsin 91, Illinois 88 OT Postgame

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#826      
Hm. Is this Jay Wright you list? If so, I'd point out he retired at near (sort of) the peak of his career in terms of NCAA success.

View attachment 48258

A note on how long it took to reach that peak.

also quite a few first place teams bouncing out the first weekend, a stretch of 5 years (this will be Brads 6th tournament for reference) without a second weekend, including a 29-5 team, a 33-3 team, a 32-4 team…

Call it what it is. Even if underwood had a final 4 under his belt, that would be “unacceptable” stretch with our resources.
 
#827      
How much talent do you actually think is on this team? Talent doesn't end with being able to shoot.

What players on our roster would you rather have than Boyd and/or Blackwell? We couldn't contain either guy. Blackwell kept taking the baseline and Boyd just penetrated. Not one of our guards could stay in front of either.
A ton. An absolute ton. We can redefine it all we want, but we have 4 former Top 50 recruits, a projected Top 5 lottery pick, and another All-B10 freshman. You know what you're expected to do with a team like that? Make a deep tournament run. Pretending we don't have talent on this team is an absolutely laughable amount of cope. You know what the last 3 non-Brad Illinois coaches did with the level of talent currently on the team? Made the NCAA Finals in '05, Made the Final 4 in '89, Made the Elite 8 in '01. Sorry, this narrative that we're actually a team with average or mediocre talent is just silly. This ain't the John Groce era and this ain't football where for each $1 of talent we get OSU, Michigan, Oregon, or PSU gets $5. We are a big boy high level talent team in basketball. Let's stop pretending we're midlevel P4. If you can't coach up this team to make a tourney run by March, there are others out there who likely could... Hell, there was a coach sitting courtside behind the BTN booth who had a knack for doing just that...
 
#828      
Just watched the game and I feel like Nick Boyd was the most intense player out there. I thought Boswell got hampered with the early fouls and it took away some of the juice but none of our guys have the energy and intensity that Boyd had throughout the game. He willed his team(along with Blackwell) but he was the one hyping the crowd up and displaying that intensity that you want to see from your star players. I understand that's not Wagler's MO and that's okay but we need some of our other guys to show some outward passion here. That's what is missing with this group.

This is another case of giving up a significant lead just like the UCLA game. Also, love Wagler and love what he's become and respect the hell out him but he's not clutch and can't make those clutch shots at the end of games. He's certainly no Ayo and he's no TSJ from that standpoint. We may be missing that as well. Who is our go-to guy when we need a buzzer beating shot or a game ending shot? Wagler's had a couple tries at it and has been unsuccessful. This may be the other ingredient that is missing is that we don't have that one true clutch player who we can count on to make a game winning shot for us. I still think your most clutch option on this team is Stojakovic but he has had to take a back seat here
 
#829      
If you can't coach up this team to make a tourney run by March, there are others out there who likely could...

Bingo … And just because a coach isn’t top 10 wherever he’s at now …

With our resources could he elevate us with his coaching and roster construction ? That’s the question we need to be asking …

Because I don’t think anyone’s arguing what Brad has done is good … It’s been good … But it hasn’t been great … It just simply hasn’t …

And I don’t want our program to just be good … We can be ELITE … Enough with the settling to be good because oh my gosh we improved from the Groce era BS …

And I’m not saying we have to win a natty every year but with our resources you better be making the second weekend consistently … Is every other year too much to ask ???

We’re staring at 1/9 right now … For what we spend … Not good enough …

And for crying out loud … Get a guy on this gosh dang staff who can DRAW UP AN F’ING PLAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
#830      
A ton. An absolute ton. We can redefine it all we want, but we have 4 former Top 50 recruits, a projected Top 5 lottery pick, and another All-B10 freshman. You know what you're expected to do with a team like that? Make a deep tournament run. Pretending we don't have talent on this team is an absolutely laughable amount of cope. You know what the last 3 non-Brad Illinois coaches did with the level of talent currently on the team? Made the NCAA Finals in '05, Made the Final 4 in '89, Made the Elite 8 in '01. Sorry, this narrative that we're actually a team with average or mediocre talent is just silly. This ain't the John Groce era and this ain't football where for each $1 of talent we get OSU, Michigan, Oregon, or PSU gets $5. We are a big boy high level talent team in basketball. Let's stop pretending we're midlevel P4. If you can't coach up this team to make a tourney run by March, there are others out there who likely could... Hell, there was a coach sitting courtside behind the BTN booth who had a knack for doing just that...

I don’t think Second place is 1st loser was bringing out the talent question as a defense of underwood… honestly was probably more a criticism around roster construction.

But is this a bring back Bruce Weber endorsement!?
 
#831      
To clarify…perhaps the faction of this board that was intended for doesn’t have a clear delineation. I don’t feel like you fall into that faction. I read your posts often and respect them. You have reasoned posts, and you rightfully point out what you see as flaws.

My question was geared towards the “we’re gonna lose in the first round” and “fire brad now” and “never play Tomi again” type posts.

To answer your question…I definitely question this teams ability to make a deep run now. They’ve git a wall, their flaws are exposed, the Ivisics are in a bad shooting slump, etc etc. But this team is far too talented to exclaim with certainty that they’ll lose in the first round. This team has clearly shown they have no trouble beating the quality of team they’ll see in that 14 or 15 spot. And they SHOULD beat a 6-7 seed team in the 2nd round. After that…my confidence drops off a cliff, for sure. So, I feel like Sweet 16 is where we land…but who knows? This team has shown they are capable of making a run and playing with anybody, so its not impossible. Plus thats the beauty of March. Anyone can get hot and make a run. Remember that 8 seed v 9 seed Championship game between UConn and Kentucky?

Anyway…I’m not saying you shouldn’t have doubts, shouldn’t want more March success, etc. All reasonable things to question. Again, the line is blurry between oosts like yours that are critical, and the extreme takes claiming we’rendoomed to lose in the first round.
From the first 7-8 games of the season, we learned things about this team that have been evident limitations ever since.
1. They lack the foot speed to be an elite defensive team
2. They are not elite in the area of mental toughness and hoops IQ, not at all unexpected for a team that features two frosh in the starting lineup.
3. Overall, this team is lacking in mental toughness and does not seem to have a leader who can pull them out when games get tight in the last minute. That may be because they can all score and are unselfish...or that opponents have developed a good scout on them all by now.

There is nothing to be done about the first other than by trying to max help and cover up the inability to guard quick, aggressive guards, a factor that proved critical in today's loss. As Brad stated in the post game, it was a tail of two halves regarding defensive focus and effort.

And though I would not trade Wagler or Miri for any player, they are frosh andnot as crafty and confident as they will be in 3 more seasons wherever they play.

For me, this team should be in the S16 and battle someone to make the next round. ..and that might happen. As BU stated and the post game, they are as good offensively as anyone, seldom if ever suffering a six minute scoring droughts that have made.. Illini fans shake their head and wonder how anyone on the roster ever made it to D-1. It is the other end though that is challenged, as we knew all along it would be. Regardless, I love this team and wish them the best....hoping they can get their heads straight, play loose, and play smart...and show a bit more mental toughness.
 
#832      
Bingo … And just because a coach isn’t top 10 wherever he’s at now …

With our resources could he elevate us with his coaching and roster construction ? That’s the question we need to be asking …

Because I don’t think anyone’s arguing what Brad has done is good … It’s been good … But it hasn’t been great … It just simply hasn’t …

And I don’t want our program to just be good … We can be ELITE … Enough with the settling to be good because oh my gosh we improved from the Groce era BS …

And I’m not saying we have to win a natty every year but with our resources you better be making the second weekend consistently … Is every other year too much to ask ???

We’re staring at 1/9 right now … For what we spend … Not good enough …

And for crying out loud … Get a guy on this gosh dang staff who can DRAW UP AN F’ING PLAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!
For what we spend? - Have you lost it? We aren't in the top 20 in NIL/Revenue sharing.

If you are going to make a statement - put some fact behind it.
 
#833      
This year’s Illini make me appreciate having a guy like Caleb Williams as the Bears QB. We have had as many melt down losses as the Bears have had miracle wins.
 
#834      
There's nothing wrong with Underwood. As some have already pointed out, there's plenty wrong with a bunch of missed free throws in a game that ends up tied.
 
#840      
Honest question, do you know what the sentiment was amongst Purdue fans during that stretch? I would guess that there was plenty of grumbling and talks about moving on.

For what it's worth, I'm not really leaning one way or the other.

On one hand, end of season results have been disappointing. Even our E8 season ended with getting absolutely skunked in the 2nd half (to an admittedly great team).

But on the other hand, as someone else has pointed out, you run the risk of firing Bo Pelini and entering purgatory. Plus, regular season results do matter and Brad has been very good over the past handful of years in that department. It doesn't take much to see a path to breaking through.
Yes, I do. And if you want to get the questio answered - you can use AI to search every post relating to Matt Painter on the internet. There were few such complaints about Painter this year. Although he went years of criticism prior to 2024. The exact AI conclusion:

"Note: As of March 2026, Painter is viewed as having solidified his standing at Purdue, having signed a long-term extension and achieved major milestones, including the 2024 Final Four, which addressed the primary arguments against him"
 
#841      
The Bo Pelini conundrum. Could it be worse? Absolutely. But could it be better, especially in the post season? Absolutely. All depends on your risk tolerance.
Bo Pelini?

"Coach Pelini's remarks as reported are inappropriate and unfortunate. We have discussed the report with Coach. We are confident that Coach will conduct himself accordingly moving forward. We will not be commenting any further on this issue."

Let me know when any statement similar to that comes out about Brad Underwood
 
#842      
Bingo … And just because a coach isn’t top 10 wherever he’s at now …

With our resources could he elevate us with his coaching and roster construction ? That’s the question we need to be asking …

Because I don’t think anyone’s arguing what Brad has done is good … It’s been good … But it hasn’t been great … It just simply hasn’t …

And I don’t want our program to just be good … We can be ELITE … Enough with the settling to be good because oh my gosh we improved from the Groce era BS …

And I’m not saying we have to win a natty every year but with our resources you better be making the second weekend consistently … Is every other year too much to ask ???

We’re staring at 1/9 right now … For what we spend … Not good enough …

And for crying out loud … Get a guy on this gosh dang staff who can DRAW UP AN F’ING PLAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!
CBU has done a respectful job at Illinois. There's no debating that point. That said, I wondered at the time if the close loss to Michigan in the 2017 NCAA tournament was the reason. High scoring game by Okie State. Not much defense by Okie State. I had my doubts.
 
#843      
What a terrible game plan. Let both the opponents guards score 30+ points and don't use your inside height to score in the paint. Oh and keep throwing up 3 point bricks.

How do you as coach, with the talent on this team, let Wisconsin own you???? Boyd should have been given multiple T's for his fake acting to get the BIG refs to call a foul----and of course, they stupidly called a foul.

Absolute waste of talent from this team. Boyd made Boswell a complete non-factor with his baiting. Wisconsin made plays and got to the line, ILL did not. They were up 15 and once again took their foot off the gas, and played not to lose, which they again did.

Post season success should be a given, but not with this team.
Can you explain how losing to a team twice in overtime on missed free throws translates into that team "owning you?" Wisconsing is a very good team.
 
#844      
I think the problem is you have assistant coaches that don’t know what to do if things have to go differently than the gameplan. Basically, it’s trust analytics and don’t veer from
the gameplan. I don’t think it’s Brad isn’t listening to them.
How do you know that?
 
#845      
Bingo … And just because a coach isn’t top 10 wherever he’s at now …

With our resources could he elevate us with his coaching and roster construction ? That’s the question we need to be asking …

Because I don’t think anyone’s arguing what Brad has done is good … It’s been good … But it hasn’t been great … It just simply hasn’t …

And I don’t want our program to just be good … We can be ELITE … Enough with the settling to be good because oh my gosh we improved from the Groce era BS …

And I’m not saying we have to win a natty every year but with our resources you better be making the second weekend consistently … Is every other year too much to ask ???

We’re staring at 1/9 right now … For what we spend … Not good enough …

And for crying out loud … Get a guy on this gosh dang staff who can DRAW UP AN F’ING PLAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Plain and simple, a sizable portion of this fanbase is content with being just good enough. It’s a holdover from the Guenther years where as long as you didn’t cheat, it was fine.

This program should be one that is a legit threat to win a Big Ten title and make a deep tournament run essentially every single year unless some sort of major injury crisis occurs. Any expectation less than that isn’t good enough.
 
#846      
It's just not appealing as a fan of 39 years to say, "we don't have a chance to actually win the championship, but we'll be good anyway!" I think we should be past that at this point.
This is spot on. A title is the only thing this program hasn’t done. Lots of wins a few final fours no titles.

I have a hard time sticking with a guy once I feel that guy can’t someday get to that level. To me Brad has demonstrated he’s a good not great coach. And won’t win the games that matter the most.

The nba style 2 man offense where u jack 40 3’s a night does not lend itself to winning 6 in a row against increasingly difficult level of competition.

It could be worse than going 24-9 every year and bowing out in round 2. But it feels like being the perpetual 5 seed in the nba playoffs. Always good but never good enough.
 
#847      
Bingo … And just because a coach isn’t top 10 wherever he’s at now …

With our resources could he elevate us with his coaching and roster construction ? That’s the question we need to be asking …

Because I don’t think anyone’s arguing what Brad has done is good … It’s been good … But it hasn’t been great … It just simply hasn’t …

And I don’t want our program to just be good … We can be ELITE … Enough with the settling to be good because oh my gosh we improved from the Groce era BS …

And I’m not saying we have to win a natty every year but with our resources you better be making the second weekend consistently … Is every other year too much to ask ???

We’re staring at 1/9 right now … For what we spend … Not good enough …

And for crying out loud … Get a guy on this gosh dang staff who can DRAW UP AN F’ING PLAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!
We have a top 15 (reportedly) paid coach. It seems reasonable to expect top 15 performance. We certainly haven’t seen that. IDK where we are as far as roster compensation, but I’d think we are in that same ball park. As you said, we are good, but we should expect better.
 
#848      
Blew 12 point lead in game 1, blew 15 today! My grandma could have guarded Boyd better than Illini. When you can't play defense or shoot free throws you deserve to lose. This teams should be called THE CHOOOOOOOKING ILLINI, I hope they get the crap beat out of them in their first game in the NCAA tourney and be put out of their misery! They have been overrated all year. Get a coach that can coach defense!
 
#849      
What an absolutely soulless, robotic basketball team. It's like it was created by ChatGPT. I was there, it's even more dramatic in person, this team just does not have a personality at all.

A friend I went to the game with made a great point, in playing a style like the modern NBA, this team has embedded the who-cares ethos of the modern NBA.

Much like the NBA where big leads are blown regularly due to the variance of the 3 point shot, I think Illinois falls victim to that. Low intensity of an NBA regular season too.

But I also believe this team was built by a coach that simply doesn’t ever want to risk being fired. It’s an attitude of “let’s use our resources to build the safest highest floor team, even if that team has no shot to beat the very best teams”. That’s what it feels like. And if I was a coach making $5 mil a year, and I wanted to keep making that, I’d probably do the same thing and my excuses for losses would be “we got great shots they just didn’t fall. But I won 25 games so see you next year”.

This years Illinois team reminds me a lot of 2013-14 Creighton. That Creighton team was #1 offense on KenPom. It was Doug McDermott senior year. But if you watched that team play they weren’t very athletic and pretty soft. They got a #3 seed. Won the first game. Then lost to a far more athletic Baylor team by 30 in the 2nd rd. And I think Greg McDermott and Underwood are very similar. They each usually win lot of regular season games. They are head coaching veterans. Respected in the game. Basically too good to be replaced, but not good enough to think you got one of the best coaches in the country (which is what you need if you want to win big at a place like Illinois or Creighton)
 
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