This narrative is what holds the program back IMO. Come on now. Not calling for BU's ouster but this is peak hyperbole.
Wisconsin 91, Illinois 88 OT Postgame
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If he's mediocre why has he earned the right to keep coaching?
The post I replied to had previously replied to a post that said we can’t play Andrej and KB at the same time because it causes issues.
You are correct that Tomi and Z need to make shots but you also completely changed topics.
He sure doesn't get the whistle you would expect a B1G FOTY and All American to get. It's inexplicable except that he doesn't act like he got shot in the head every time somebody touches him.
Using words like mediocrity to describe a premier conference’s best team over the last several seasons … lol it’s wild out here
Illini2010-11
- Sugar Grove
He does come on strong at times, but he is not necessarily wrong for one primary reason: big donors
I suspect the big donors will be skeptical of increasing necessary spending for simply strong regular seasons. If we don't get out if first weekend this year, expect chatter to happen. We will be in great position to make it to second weekend, so there should be no excuses anymore.
Note: I want Underwood to be coach
Never fails to amuse me that people think this.
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Let's start with Nate Oats - Between his buyout and Brad Underwood's buyout we are at $34mm when you add the assistant coach buyouts - we are at close to $40m. Oats also is secheduled to earn more money than Brad next year. Jaxon Richardson, Qaydon Samuels, Tarris Bouie are coming next year and Oats is going to be an assistant on the USA 16 and under team this summer. Kentucky tried 2 years ago, Maryland tried last year. "Nate being the one where he’s not exactly been quiet to certain people that he could be looking for a move" is a fabrication. His buyout is too large and the class he has coming in too strong. He has also made public statements about wanting to stay in Tuscaloosa for family reasons.
There is 0% chance Oats would even answer a phone call from Illinois and Illinois doesn't have near the capital to make that transaction happen.
Todd Golden's buyout is $40mm prior to next month and drops to $24mm - he too makes more money than Brad Underwood. Florida starts 1 Sr. and its unlikely any of their top 8 are headed elseware.
Similar to Oats. There is 0% chance that Golden returns a phone call from Illinois.
It's just annoying because such a "tell" on yourself and a total hedge.
You ofcourse think he's deserved the right to keep coaching because of all the other context besides march results, but then you mock everyone whose in underwoods camp with "you all crave medicority!" quip
I may not agree with Indy, but I can atleast respect he's outright saying it. And i can disgaree with Florida but alteast hes admitting it would be a massive risk.
Eh. I think most actually would just prefer Brad fix the things that need fixed.
I am trying to be fair to the guy. He did lead Illinois to an E8 two years ago. As a result, he earned a few more years.
Last year was a disappointment. If he loses in R2 this year, then some accountability talk should commence.
Here is my thing with Underwood...
Pros:
- we get good talent, which is obviously a huge piece of success, great job there
- we generally have good schemes, at least offensively and aside from the first two or so seasons on both sides of the ball (defensive scheme has also been questionable at times)
- we generally have good game plans utilizing those schemes
This is great for the first 2/3rds of the season. Talent wins games, schemes win games, teams don't have film on you, haven't seen other teams exploit your weaknesses.
Then the last 1/3rd of the season and most importantly, the post season comes along. Every decision is critical, every possession is critical. The ability to stop the other team's momentum and adjust to what they're doing is critical. Teams are going to scheme against your scheme, because they've seen it on film and they've also seen how other teams have exploited your weaknesses.
This is where Underwood is far below average in my opinion...
- he doesn't use time outs to stem momentum when anyone with a pulse can see the momentum shifting (see UCLA game...). The amount of times that we don't use our first half timeout (use it or lose it) when it feels like a timeout is very necessary to get things straightened out is maddening
- he doesn't recognize things like yesterday when, with 52 seconds on the game clock and the game tied, we take 20 seconds to get a shot off instead of going quick for a 2-for-1. This is losing basketball and a losing coaching decision. You have to capitalize on advantages that are given to you, not fail to recognize them
- no adjustments to our schemes. We were never beating that UConn team, but the "we are going to continue to attack Clingan" response is the epitome of Brad using a nail and hammer when he needs a screw and a drill. Another example is Loyola. We ran the Ayo PnR all season long with a lot of success. Loyola threw the hard hedge/trap at it, which was their scheme all season long as well. We fell right into it, bogged down the offense, and lost what is, in my opinion, our best chance at a FF in the Underwood era. We ran it until the last possession of Ayo's career when it was clear it wasn't working after the first 8 minutes of the game. Criminal lack of adjustments
This is the point in the season where I just assume that we are going to be outcoached by 3 to 5 points per game, so the talent and the players are going to have to make up for it, sadly.
Pros:
- we get good talent, which is obviously a huge piece of success, great job there
- we generally have good schemes, at least offensively and aside from the first two or so seasons on both sides of the ball (defensive scheme has also been questionable at times)
- we generally have good game plans utilizing those schemes
This is great for the first 2/3rds of the season. Talent wins games, schemes win games, teams don't have film on you, haven't seen other teams exploit your weaknesses.
Then the last 1/3rd of the season and most importantly, the post season comes along. Every decision is critical, every possession is critical. The ability to stop the other team's momentum and adjust to what they're doing is critical. Teams are going to scheme against your scheme, because they've seen it on film and they've also seen how other teams have exploited your weaknesses.
This is where Underwood is far below average in my opinion...
- he doesn't use time outs to stem momentum when anyone with a pulse can see the momentum shifting (see UCLA game...). The amount of times that we don't use our first half timeout (use it or lose it) when it feels like a timeout is very necessary to get things straightened out is maddening
- he doesn't recognize things like yesterday when, with 52 seconds on the game clock and the game tied, we take 20 seconds to get a shot off instead of going quick for a 2-for-1. This is losing basketball and a losing coaching decision. You have to capitalize on advantages that are given to you, not fail to recognize them
- no adjustments to our schemes. We were never beating that UConn team, but the "we are going to continue to attack Clingan" response is the epitome of Brad using a nail and hammer when he needs a screw and a drill. Another example is Loyola. We ran the Ayo PnR all season long with a lot of success. Loyola threw the hard hedge/trap at it, which was their scheme all season long as well. We fell right into it, bogged down the offense, and lost what is, in my opinion, our best chance at a FF in the Underwood era. We ran it until the last possession of Ayo's career when it was clear it wasn't working after the first 8 minutes of the game. Criminal lack of adjustments
This is the point in the season where I just assume that we are going to be outcoached by 3 to 5 points per game, so the talent and the players are going to have to make up for it, sadly.
When we first started winning under Underwood he had teens and guys that would lock you up defensively. However, he felt like he did not have enough scoring to win.
You Total 180 and now we have dudes who can Score But can't Guard anybody or have that dog mentality.
Either way the common denominator seems to be Underwood
You Total 180 and now we have dudes who can Score But can't Guard anybody or have that dog mentality.
Either way the common denominator seems to be Underwood
Ok, so firing the most winningest coach over a 7 year span in this conference is a positive thing for a winning coach looking to move to another school? I'm interested in your train of thought... Brad isn't weber, or Groce.. That is how you turn into Indiana.. Expectations are too high vs reality...
Understood.
What if he does reach the second weekend this year? Where would 2 out of the past 3 years being in the second weekend put him in your mind as far as trajectory?
Not calling for a coaching change at the moment, but
So, the language he used was “top 10 coach in the country over the last 6-7 years.”
Highest winning % over the last 7 seasons among P4 programs:
1. Houston: 86.6%
2. Duke: 79.7%
3. Arizona: 78.4%
4. UCONN: 78.3%
5. Purdue: 76.4%
6. Alabama: 72.7%
7. Tennessee: 72.7%
8. Kansas: 72.5%
9. Illinois: 70.3%
So what coach is coming here? I think most would agree Brad is a top 10 coach in college basketball.. maybe 9 names better.. Do we bring in an NBA coach like BYU ?
It’s time to re-evaluate the program.
That would make him a top 9 coach then. Thank you for the stats.
Illini2010-11
- Sugar Grove
Umm, I was talking about not being able to hire a top coach if we moved on from Underwood, which is how the post ended...
A big bag of money and a top tier job will still be a draw to the top coaches. We are nowhere near where we were as a program in the 2010s.
Not sure if it’s a hot take or not, but I do not want Nate Oats. Nor do I want Brad fired at the moment.
Also agree with you here. It’s a business. We are a top tier program who pay a lot of money…if you build it they will come
OrangeBlue98
Iowa is not in a great spot right now (LvilleILL1)
- Des Moines, IA
All I really saw in this were similar arguments a lot of Green Bay Packers fans have used to justify keeping Matt “7 Seed Forever” LaFleur.
It amuses most, with common sense, that anyone would even entertain the thought of pushing aside the coach of the winningest program over the last half decade, coaching the team of a top 3 seed in the NCAA tournament, currently ranked 9th in the country, top 10 in NET rankings ...because they don't think he wins enough.
All coaches and players are open to criticism. That's just fandom. The debate is part of the fun, but some of the hot takes are flat out lunacy.
When finances are clearly middle of the pack you can't miss. When you have a treasure chest and don't miss that is how you become Michigan. Whoever recruited Petro needs to be evaluated. I know Brad wants retention, but I can't think of anyone not named Jake Davis and Mirk that I want to run it back with. Possibly Keaton if he gets to the combine and the NBA evaluators realize his ceiling is limited.
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