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FBI College Basketball Corruption Investigation

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Old Oct 7, 2017, 01:13 PM   #1226
miketherevelator
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Originally Posted by illinitiger View Post
dont see it as a "recruiting" violation for agent to talk with a player....maybe some other violation but its also probably gray. fact that an asst coach is taking money to set up an agent affiliation with a college player is the biggest issue.
Don't remember the paragraph number in the indictment papers but this is what they were referring to about potential recruiting violations.

http://kfor.com/2017/09/26/osu-assis...uption-scheme/
Quote:
The court documents show Evans' alleged involvement followed him to Stillwater.

He would reportedly take money to recruit high school basketball players to OSU in exchange for them to do business with others involved in the case once they reach the NBA.
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Old Oct 7, 2017, 01:40 PM   #1227
miketherevelator
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It's the elephant in the room, even if you're only peripherally involved, and even if you don't want to talk about it. Worst possible time for it to hit.

Jeff Borzello‏Verified account @jeffborzello 21m21 minutes ago
Bol Bol: "Some of the schools were under investigation. I just didn't really want to be a part of that."

Jeff Borzello‏Verified account @jeffborzello 25m25 minutes ago
No. 4 prospect Bol Bol said he's down to Kentucky and Oregon. Visits Kentucky next week, visited Oregon last week. Arizona and USC out.
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Old Oct 7, 2017, 03:15 PM   #1228
brillinian
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Originally Posted by miketherevelator View Post
Jeff Borzello‏Verified account @jeffborzello 19s19 seconds ago
Jahvon Quinerly also said he is still committed to Arizona "for now."

Jeff Borzello‏Verified account @jeffborzello 2m2 minutes ago
Five-star point guard Jahvon Quinerly said his family has hired a lawyer, but has not yet been contacted by federal authorities.
Is this one of the numbered players? Makes you wonder why his family has already hired a lawyer.
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Old Oct 7, 2017, 03:26 PM   #1229
miketherevelator
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Originally Posted by brillinian View Post
Is this one of the numbered players? Makes you wonder why his family has already hired a lawyer.
Player-5

Quote:
When asked on Saturday whether he accepted money, Quinerly responded: "I have no comment."
http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/arizona...ry?id=50345615

Last edited by miketherevelator; Oct 7, 2017 at 03:30 PM.
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Old Oct 7, 2017, 04:58 PM   #1230
Illini B-Ball Fan
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Originally Posted by miketherevelator View Post
Good to be a lawyer, job security.

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Old Oct 8, 2017, 10:21 AM   #1231
EJ33
Location: San Francisco
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Originally Posted by illinitiger View Post
dont see it as a "recruiting" violation for agent to talk with a player....maybe some other violation but its also probably gray. fact that an asst coach is taking money to set up an agent affiliation with a college player is the biggest issue.
It's not a recruiting violation.

The point is that the agent commissions are not the biggest issue for Underwood (because he didn't benefit from them and it's really likely he didn't know about them.) The problem is that Evans may reveal recruiting violations when the Feds squeeze him. That's what Underwood has to worry about.
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Old Oct 8, 2017, 10:53 AM   #1232
miketherevelator
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Originally Posted by icengineer View Post
Why would the Feds give two hoots about NCAA violations? It's the money laundering and bribery which are federal crimes that they are policing. Sure, I can see how some NCCA violations come out in the course of things, but that will be incidental. The FBI couldn't care less about NCAA infractions, the vast majority of which are not crimes in the legal sense.
That's the point. The FBI, will find the violations in relation to the stuff they're really after and schools and the NCAA will have to do something about it. You can't say our coaches and kids can play even if they paid the kids because the FBI found out about it and not the NCAA.
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Old Oct 8, 2017, 10:55 AM   #1233
Calvin
Location: Michigan
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Originally Posted by icengineer View Post
Why would the Feds give two hoots about NCAA violations? It's the money laundering and bribery which are federal crimes that they are policing. Sure, I can see how some NCCA violations come out in the course of things, but that will be incidental. The FBI couldn't care less about NCAA infractions, the vast majority of which are not crimes in the legal sense.
I think that's his point.

The NCAA is in desperate need of reform, but in the meantime, it has a terrible track record on how it handles these things. With all the coaches speaking out against how the NCAA basically put the system in place that created this scandal, I think it's possible that the easiest course for them is to reform the rules regarding eligibility, so the pressure is alleviated. But until all the facts come out, we just don't know if it will impact us. From a recruiting perspective, it will be used against us. Also, if the posts about recruiting are correct, it sounds like the administration did a review and preemptively addressed procedures to ensure we're looking clean.

It's worth saying: anyone who's close to law enforcement will tell you they're not in the business of being nice to the innocent. They're their to find and prosecute the guilty. There's a relatively prevalent attitude that doing so may inconvenience others, but that's part of the system.

I got stressed the first time I recently had to go to traffic court, even knowing it was a bad ticket! (and thankfully the judge saw that too). Hard to imagine how this kind of incident plays on them.

Last edited by Calvin; Oct 8, 2017 at 10:56 AM. Reason: Edit: I see Mike beat me to it
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Old Oct 8, 2017, 11:24 AM   #1234
illinitiger
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Originally Posted by EJ33 View Post
It's not a recruiting violation.

The point is that the agent commissions are not the biggest issue for Underwood (because he didn't benefit from them and it's really likely he didn't know about them.) The problem is that Evans may reveal recruiting violations when the Feds squeeze him. That's what Underwood has to worry about.
"agent commission" sounds so much nicer than "bribe". I still think the answer is give HS kids a more direct path to NBA and ability to get paid sooner, instead of forcing a year in college (reverse the one and done rule).

Just curious, are "agent commissions " legal for non-coaches...or is at all considered bribes?
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Old Oct 8, 2017, 12:00 PM   #1235
illinitiger
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Originally Posted by icengineer View Post
That it does!! In other fields it's called commissions, bonuses, finders fees, etc... Perfectly legal as long as you declare the income and pay your taxes on it. The main issue is that there are employees of Federally funded institutions (schools) accepting bribes which is totally illegal. And the money used for the bribes is being laundered, or hidden, by various financial entities including agents, financial advisors, shoe companies, etc...
OK,...apologize if I'm too geekish but Im really trying to understand the laws surrounding this stuff.

So given this legal explanation on bribe vs agent commission and assuming a legit agent (who claims commisions on their corp taxes)...

sounds like it would be legal for the agent to pre-pay an agent commission to Jawun Evans' mom or dad or previous AAU coach, but it is illegal for the asst coach (Lamont E.) to receive an agent commission since he works for a public institution ( OSU) that theoretically receives some federal funds as a learning institution, is that accurate?

Logically that would mean a non-public school such as Northwestern,.. the asst coach should be free to receive an agent commission anytime, since its not a public institution.

Is that accurate interpretation of the law?
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Old Oct 8, 2017, 12:23 PM   #1236
illinitiger
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Originally Posted by icengineer View Post
That it does!! In other fields it's called commissions, bonuses, finders fees, etc... Perfectly legal as long as you declare the income and pay your taxes on it. The main issue is that there are employees of Federally funded institutions (schools) accepting bribes which is totally illegal. And the money used for the bribes is being laundered, or hidden, by various financial entities including agents, financial advisors, shoe companies, etc...
found this law on agent trust.

doesnt exclude agent commissions, but does prevent agents from baiting student athletes or their associates with something of value before they sign a contract. If Lamont E. rec'd $ in advance, it would be a clear violation. Seems that if Lamont E. rec'd $ After agent contract signed, there would be no clear legal conflict.

https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/stat...lity-trust-act
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Old Oct 8, 2017, 12:56 PM   #1237
Calvin
Location: Michigan
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Originally Posted by illinitiger View Post
OK,...apologize if I'm too geekish but Im really trying to understand the laws surrounding this stuff.

So given this legal explanation on bribe vs agent commission and assuming a legit agent (who claims commisions on their corp taxes)...

sounds like it would be legal for the agent to pre-pay an agent commission to Jawun Evans' mom or dad or previous AAU coach, but it is illegal for the asst coach (Lamont E.) to receive an agent commission since he works for a public institution ( OSU) that theoretically receives some federal funds as a learning institution, is that accurate?

Logically that would mean a non-public school such as Northwestern,.. the asst coach should be free to receive an agent commission anytime, since its not a public institution.

Is that accurate interpretation of the law?
I am not a lawyer, but I don't think public/private is as you suggest. For example, Title IX applies to all educational institutions that receive federal funds, which I'm sure Northwestern does.

The issue is a person in a federally funded job, even if indirectly or partially or both, is engaged in bribery (not necessarily $, but anything that is greater than nominal value, such as an athlete's services). If the typical scheme is for an assistant coach to offer $ to an agent to 'deliver' an athlete to a university, and then reciprocate by sending that athlete back to the agent, that's a bribe.

Note that this type of arrangement could be done above board, were it not for the NCAA getting in the way (see the baseball or hockey draft as an example). It's a bribe because the parties are doing it in secret from their respective universities, which are using public funds. Because the universities are excluded, the coaches and agents are defrauding them, and by extension, the public.
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Old Oct 8, 2017, 01:33 PM   #1238
illinitiger
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Originally Posted by Calvin View Post
I am not a lawyer, but I don't think public/private is as you suggest. For example, Title IX applies to all educational institutions that receive federal funds, which I'm sure Northwestern does.

The issue is a person in a federally funded job, even if indirectly or partially or both, is engaged in bribery (not necessarily $, but anything that is greater than nominal value, such as an athlete's services). If the typical scheme is for an assistant coach to offer $ to an agent to 'deliver' an athlete to a university, and then reciprocate by sending that athlete back to the agent, that's a bribe.

Note that this type of arrangement could be done above board, were it not for the NCAA getting in the way (see the baseball or hockey draft as an example). It's a bribe because the parties are doing it in secret from their respective universities, which are using public funds. Because the universities are excluded, the coaches and agents are defrauding them, and by extension, the public.
Thanks for well thought out response Calvin. Makes sense.

Next study is to better understand legalities surrounding a shoe company paying a mom or dad or aau coach who dont have any fed institutional affiliation.... paying for the family and/or kids future loyalty to the shoe co and associated schools.
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Old Oct 8, 2017, 03:13 PM   #1239
FiveStar
Location: Austin
Also remember usc is a private school and they got busted.
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Old Oct 8, 2017, 07:06 PM   #1240
Innocent Primate
For those of a legal bent, here is a copy (in pdf format) of one of the federal complaints with reference to a couple of the assistant coaches, which you can download to your computer. The complaint indicates the legal theories and statutory bases upon which the feds rely. (I assume these are the same as to all the assistant coaches.)

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr...98756/download

I believe the basis for the charges against the shoe company personnel is fraud by use of means of interstate commerce (wire fraud). The fraud consists of the fact that bribes which rendered the athletes ineligible under NCAA rules were paid to athletes and their families to steer the athletes to certain universities. The contention is that the universities were defrauded as a result of extending benefits to those ineligible for such benefits.
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Old Oct 8, 2017, 08:17 PM   #1241
illinitiger
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Originally Posted by Innocent Primate View Post
For those of a legal bent, here is a copy (in pdf format) of one of the federal complaints with reference to a couple of the assistant coaches, which you can download to your computer. The complaint indicates the legal theories and statutory bases upon which the feds rely. (I assume these are the same as to all the assistant coaches.)

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr...98756/download

I believe the basis for the charges against the shoe company personnel is fraud by use of means of interstate commerce (wire fraud). The fraud consists of the fact that bribes which rendered the athletes ineligible under NCAA rules were paid to athletes and their families to steer the athletes to certain universities. The contention is that the universities were defrauded as a result of extending benefits to those ineligible for such benefits.
Thanks for the info. So families and shoe companies committed fraud (offenders), and the universities were defrauded ( victims) in these shoe co. fraud schemes.

I didnt previously view the likes of Louisville as "defrauded" victim by the likes of Bowen's family and Adidas (or other shoe cos). I guess it gets a little uglier when the schools have knowledge of or request the shoe company influence.
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Old Oct 9, 2017, 10:43 AM   #1242
CHI 1086
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Location: Merced CA
An institution does not have to a public one to receive federal funding in some form. Plenty of private organizations, to include schools, receive federal funds in some form. The laws still apply.
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Old Oct 9, 2017, 11:38 AM   #1243
geneseo
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Originally Posted by Innocent Primate View Post
For those of a legal bent, here is a copy (in pdf format) of one of the federal complaints with reference to a couple of the assistant coaches, which you can download to your computer. The complaint indicates the legal theories and statutory bases upon which the feds rely. (I assume these are the same as to all the assistant coaches.)

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr...98756/download

I believe the basis for the charges against the shoe company personnel is fraud by use of means of interstate commerce (wire fraud). The fraud consists of the fact that bribes which rendered the athletes ineligible under NCAA rules were paid to athletes and their families to steer the athletes to certain universities. The contention is that the universities were defrauded as a result of extending benefits to those ineligible for such benefits.
It might be interesting if one of the accused requested a trial and let the prosecutors explain the above to a jury. I'd also like to see one of the accused give the prosecutors exactly what they say they want, that is, to name names, not in the secrecy of a prosecutor's office, but in open court where they can't control the narrative. The damage to the revenue of the ncaa and its member institutions might reach into the billions.
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Old Oct 9, 2017, 11:40 AM   #1244
EJ33
Location: San Francisco
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Originally Posted by icengineer View Post
Why would the Feds give two hoots about NCAA violations? It's the money laundering and bribery which are federal crimes that they are policing. Sure, I can see how some NCCA violations come out in the course of things, but that will be incidental. The FBI couldn't care less about NCAA infractions, the vast majority of which are not crimes in the legal sense.
This is the concern for coaches like Underwood. Agreed that it's not the main interest of the Feds, but it is part of the system that creates the space for illegal activities.

The illegal agent kickbacks, bribes, or whatever you want to call them are not going to come back on Underwood.
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Old Oct 10, 2017, 08:06 AM   #1245
miketherevelator
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FBI investigation sending shockwaves through 2018 recruits

http://www.espn.com/college-sports/r...-2018-recruits
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Old Oct 10, 2017, 03:40 PM   #1246
Robert68
Cognitive dissonance is the phrase that comes to mind when reading that article.
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Old Oct 10, 2017, 09:30 PM   #1247
PlayAZ
Not sure where to post, but St Louis has closed practices with 4 men's basketball players suspected/accused/investigated for possible sexual assaults. No names given as of yet.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...lt-allegations
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Old Oct 11, 2017, 06:18 AM   #1248
jmilt7
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Former college basketball coach believes FBI investigation could get 50 coaches fired. The author does not mention who this former coach is. And he is including assistant coaches in that number.

https://www.aseaofblue.com/2017/10/1...source=twitter
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Old Oct 11, 2017, 06:33 AM   #1249
illiniguy24
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Former college basketball coach believes FBI investigation could get 50 coaches fired. The author does not mention who this former coach is. And he is including assistant coaches in that number.

https://www.aseaofblue.com/2017/10/1...source=twitter


That would be something.


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Old Oct 11, 2017, 10:35 AM   #1250
BigJIllini
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BREAKING: New York grand jury looking for NCAA violations by OSU basketball players

http://newsok.com/article/5567594?ut...areBar-Twitter

Last edited by Dan; Oct 11, 2017 at 02:24 PM.
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