Bruce Weber & Tom Izzo vs Mike Thomas: The timeline of excuses

DaytonIllini · May 1, 2012, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeartofaChampion

I think MT felt better about hitching his job security to JG, TB and Bollant, i.e. his own handpicked candidates, than to BW, RZ and JL, the coaches he inherited, all of whom were struggling to succeed. Looking at it that way, his choice wasn't difficult in that regard, though firing someone is in fact a difficult decision at least for that day when you actually have to do it.

I am sure he was more comfortable. The CYA approach is often to make no controversial decision. No decision that others can armchair QB. If Beckman and Groce bomb and Weber has a nice two year run at KSU, you can imagine people pointing out that we had made 2 bowls in row, multiple 1st round picks, high grad rates, one year removed from a Round of 32, former national coach of the year, blah, blah, blah. OTOH, he could have kept Bruce for a year arguing that we were bringing in young talent, the team was young, it was fiscally prudent to not waste millions jettisoning Bruce. Then if Bruce tanks you dump him and you're still a hero.

Thomas is in his honeymoon right now. He can do no wrong but his guys haven't played a game. Clock is ticking on Thomas's career though. I am not saying I'll be screaming for his head. Just that it will happen VERY quickly if things don't fall just right.

hermie1985 · May 1, 2012, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaytonIllini

I am sure he was more comfortable. The CYA approach is often to make no controversial decision. No decision that others can armchair QB. If Beckman and Groce bomb and Weber has a nice two year run at KSU, you can imagine people pointing out that we had made 2 bowls in row, multiple 1st round picks, high grad rates, one year removed from a Round of 32, former national coach of the year, blah, blah, blah. OTOH, he could have kept Bruce for a year arguing that we were bringing in young talent, the team was young, it was fiscally prudent to not waste millions jettisoning Bruce. Then if Bruce tanks you dump him and you're still a hero.

Thomas is in his honeymoon right now. He can do no wrong but his guys haven't played a game. Clock is ticking on Thomas's career though. I am not saying I'll be screaming for his head. Just that it will happen VERY quickly if things don't fall just right.

So you think the fanbase needed another year to say Bruce had tanked?:laugh: I believe MT was brought in to right the sinking ship that was Illini Revenue sports, and told by big $'s sooner than later. If so, they will be patient, and well they should. I don't think he had to be nice about it. That said, I believe both coaches had the opportunity to survive and it looked like for awhile they both just might. Eventually, the seasons imploded for both and the future lies with Beckman and Groce but MT did what any good athletic director would have done after such implosions. I try hard to stay off the BW discussion but saying he needed another year is just to much to read without responding. His behavior since confirms his inability to see his own deficiencies and correct them.

DaytonIllini · May 1, 2012, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hermie1985

So you think the fanbase needed another year to say Bruce had tanked?:laugh: I believe MT was brought in to right the sinking ship that was Illini Revenue sports, and told by big $'s sooner than later. If so, they will be patient, and well they should. I don't think he had to be nice about it. That said, I believe both coaches had the opportunity to survive and it looked like for awhile they both just might. Eventually, the seasons imploded for both and the future lies with Beckman and Groce but MT did what any good athletic director would have done after such implosions. I try hard to stay off the BW discussion but saying he needed another year is just to much to read without responding. His behavior since confirms his inability to see his own deficiencies and correct them.

You didn't read what I wrote. I said he will be second guessed extremely fast if his coaches don't win and win fast. Anyone that thinks a pair of 3 or 4 win seasons in football and a couple of 14-15 win seasons in BB isn't going to put him on the hotseat is delusional. Watch how fast people that clamored to get rid of Weber develop selective amnesia if he gets a pair of Sweet 16's and pulls in a couple of big recruits.

Not saying it will happen. Probably won't as I think Thomas brought in good coaches. But it was the type of decision that gets people fired. Playing the string another season with Bruce would not have made the rabid fan happy but it would have been the safer career move. Thomas clearly doesn't play things safe and I think we can be happy about that...for now at least.

OrangeFever · May 1, 2012, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by illinicb

That is no doubt true and based on that, I am pleased Thomas was the AD and not you.

If I'd been the AD, he would have been gone long, long ago. I'm just glad you find MT's job so simple. Good for you!!

OrangeFever · May 1, 2012, 06:26 PM

This is a bloodthirsty fan base. Once it became obvious to the world that Weber should have been fired a few years ago and needed to be fired now, and was fired by the new AD, who also cleaned house in football and women's hoops, the focus immediately turns to MT, with comments that unless his hires show promise very quickly, he'll be the next one with his head on the block.

Sigh. No winning with this group. Personally, I'm just glad he did what had to be done, especially dumping the utterly ineffectual Weber. Nearly anything had to be an improvement.

We all know winning 6-7 games a year in football is all it takes for the Illinois program to be deemed successful. It's not been that consistently successful for 60 years.

Women's basketball at UI is horrific. Let's face it: not many care much.

Men's basketball is where most of the pride rests, and the expectations. It needs to be better. It can be significantly better. The right person is needed to run the program. All hope we have the right guy now. I faulted Guenther for what I thought was an ill-advised hire bringing in the journeyman Weber. I faulted him far, far more for not having the courage to make a change when it became evident change was needed and was inevitable. I'll be disappointed if John Groce is not an improvement (stunned, actually). I'll be upset with MT in that event if he pulls another Guenther and lets the coach hang around way beyond his welcome, at the cost of the program, as Guenther did with Weber. It's bad enough we're down and have to fight our way back again.

hermie1985 · May 1, 2012, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaytonIllini

You didn't read what I wrote. I said he will be second guessed extremely fast if his coaches don't win and win fast. Anyone that thinks a pair of 3 or 4 win seasons in football and a couple of 14-15 win seasons in BB isn't going to put him on the hotseat is delusional. Watch how fast people that clamored to get rid of Weber develop selective amnesia if he gets a pair of Sweet 16's and pulls in a couple of big recruits.

Not saying it will happen. Probably won't as I think Thomas brought in good coaches. But it was the type of decision that gets people fired. Playing the string another season with Bruce would not have made the rabid fan happy but it would have been the safer career move. Thomas clearly doesn't play things safe and I think we can be happy about that...for now at least.

Nor did you read what I wrote. I said I believed the big $ donors brought him in to do what needed to be done. You think it would have been safer to go another year. I said that wasn't an option with the big $ donors with the implosions that occurred. MT, in my opinion, was hired to do what Guenther would not.

Furthermore, I think you are trying to set a standard for MT's tenure based on the immediate success of revenue teams. I guess you underestimate the damage Weber did to our Illini. You hedge a bit by saying you think it won't happen because he hired good coaches. Nice way to cover your hiney if things work out but sounds like you will be among the first to yell Weber was mistreated if the rebuilding takes a little while. My guess is it will take awhile so be ready to scream.

Harry Blackwell · May 1, 2012, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chief3469

I felt a bit sorry for Bruce when he got fired. Watching him and his family during that final press conference made me feel bad even though everyone knew it was definitely the right decision to get rid of him.

Now, however, the amount of effort he has gone through to skew facts and spit slander upon our university has made me do a complete 180 and I have very little respect for Bruce. He says he tries to do things the right way and then he pulls this garbage. If he recruited as hard as he tried to organize this attack against Mike Thomas and UI he may still have a job here.

Needless to say, I won't be cheering if/when he gets a banner almost entirely because of these events.

I went from feeling a bit sorry to feeling thrilled he is gone.
I live in KC and have heard enough of his BS to make me root for him to lose and be a complete failure. I have mentioned some of it, but now when he comes on, I turn it off.

hermie1985 · May 1, 2012, 07:09 PM

I can't imagine Bruce will game plan any better than Martin did or get more out of his players. Martin teams were physical and played hard or faced the scariest face in basketball. When Weber starts his whining, they won't know how to react. Probably laugh.

OrangeFever · May 1, 2012, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hermie1985

I can't imagine Bruce will game plan any better than Martin did or get more out of his players. Martin teams were physical and played hard or faced the scariest face in basketball. When Weber starts his whining, they won't know how to react. Probably laugh.

They will snicker. The fans will weep.

illinicb · May 1, 2012, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangeFever

If I'd been the AD, he would have been gone long, long ago. I'm just glad you find MT's job so simple. Good for you!!

I don't think being the head of a multimillion dollar corporation is "so simple". I neither wrote that or implied that. I said the decision to fire the coaches was easy. Nothing more, nothing less. As in most such instances, the individuals fired themselves. The AD papered up the transaction. The process can be difficult for all concerned.

drwillini · May 1, 2012, 08:45 PM

I have defended Weber for the last couple years, due almost entirely to the magical season that must credit him at least somewhat. That being said, I would have fired him after the Purdue press conference. Period. The coaches first job is to represent the university, and at that point he was an unrecoverable failure. I think MT was more than fair.

Orangetool · May 2, 2012, 05:30 AM

I am not surprised to see the true nature of Weber's character that has been revealed post firing. I was a supporter for years but began to suspect his true nature because of a recurring practice. His ability to denigrate a player, or the team as a whole, in the press was a tell to his true personality: whine and blame others.

Turns out "a great guy" wasn't so great in a character call.

May 2, 2012, 05:30 AM	#287
Orangetool Posts: 178	I am not surprised to see the true nature of Weber's character that has been revealed post firing. I was a supporter for years but began to suspect his true nature because of a recurring practice. His ability to denigrate a player, or the team as a whole, in the press was a tell to his true personality: whine and blame others. Turns out "a great guy" wasn't so great in a character call. __________________ Give me back my Afta... heh heh heh

May 1, 2012, 06:26 PM	#280
OrangeFever Lead, don't follow Location: Seattle area Posts: 16,489	This is a bloodthirsty fan base. Once it became obvious to the world that Weber should have been fired a few years ago and needed to be fired now, and was fired by the new AD, who also cleaned house in football and women's hoops, the focus immediately turns to MT, with comments that unless his hires show promise very quickly, he'll be the next one with his head on the block. Sigh. No winning with this group. Personally, I'm just glad he did what had to be done, especially dumping the utterly ineffectual Weber. Nearly anything had to be an improvement. We all know winning 6-7 games a year in football is all it takes for the Illinois program to be deemed successful. It's not been that consistently successful for 60 years. Women's basketball at UI is horrific. Let's face it: not many care much. Men's basketball is where most of the pride rests, and the expectations. It needs to be better. It can be significantly better. The right person is needed to run the program. All hope we have the right guy now. I faulted Guenther for what I thought was an ill-advised hire bringing in the journeyman Weber. I faulted him far, far more for not having the courage to make a change when it became evident change was needed and was inevitable. I'll be disappointed if John Groce is not an improvement (stunned, actually). I'll be upset with MT in that event if he pulls another Guenther and lets the coach hang around way beyond his welcome, at the cost of the program, as Guenther did with Weber. It's bad enough we're down and have to fight our way back again.

May 1, 2012, 07:09 PM	#283
hermie1985 Posts: 938	I can't imagine Bruce will game plan any better than Martin did or get more out of his players. Martin teams were physical and played hard or faced the scariest face in basketball. When Weber starts his whining, they won't know how to react. Probably laugh.

May 1, 2012, 08:45 PM	#286
drwillini Posts: 127	I have defended Weber for the last couple years, due almost entirely to the magical season that must credit him at least somewhat. That being said, I would have fired him after the Purdue press conference. Period. The coaches first job is to represent the university, and at that point he was an unrecoverable failure. I think MT was more than fair.