Bruce Weber at Kansas State - Chester Frazier hired as assistant at KSU

[UncleBob]

Originally Posted by CARPET

When you saw Coach Weber did you man up and share your thoughts OF? Did you share what you think is the truth as you say? I am sure you did not tell him what you are thinking 24-7.

18 million post later you still at it, I get it let's hide behind a key board.

Coach Weber is honest as the day is long almost to a fault and it is a shame that some can say he can't see the truth when he lives it every day.

Yeah, he's wonderful. So let me get this straight, you want OF to challenge BW to a duel or something when he's in a public place, with his daughter's wedding party on the weekend of his her wedding? Good plan.

[VTIllini]

Originally Posted by UncleBob

Yeah, he's wonderful. So let me get this straight, you want OF to challenge BW to a duel or something when he's in a public place, with his daughter's wedding party on the weekend of his her wedding? Good plan.

For all the unidentified and blatant yakking he's done over the past few years, seems to me we'd expect a bit more than "Hi, how are ya?"

[BrooksTaylorFan]

Originally Posted by CARPET

When you saw Coach Weber did you man up and share your thoughts OF? Did you share what you think is the truth as you say? I am sure you did not tell him what you are thinking 24-7.

18 million post later you still at it, I get it let's hide behind a key board.

Coach Weber is honest as the day is long almost to a fault and it is a shame that some can say he can't see the truth when he lives it every day.

Not sure how attacking a coach in public is "manning up." You may not like OF, but doing that would be classless and OF isn't that type of guy.

[Groundhogday]

Originally Posted by BrooksTaylorFan

Not sure how attacking a coach in public is "manning up." You may not like OF, but doing that would be classless and OF isn't that type of guy.

OF wouldn't have to attack the coach. He could have stated very calmly and reasonably his objections to Weber's behavior. But that does take courage.

[UncleBob]

Originally Posted by BrooksTaylorFan

Not sure how attacking a coach in public is "manning up." You may not like OF, but doing that would be classless and OF isn't that type of guy.

Exactly. I doubt if any poster who disagrees with BAMs action would have said anything in those circumstances...I wouldn't in that situation...and oh by the way, IMO BWs actions and statements in the last few months have proven many of OFs well known opinions to be spot on.

[Psycho 86]

You may not like what OF has to say but he has never waivered in his convictions. In the worst of times is when a persons real character shows. I have watched BW change as times got harder. OF has continued to state his opinion even tho many posters have given him heat.
BW hopefully has learned from his mistakes at Illinois but I doubt it and he will more than likely run KState down the same road as he took Illinois.

[DaytonIllini]

Originally Posted by UncleBob

Yeah, he's wonderful. So let me get this straight, you want OF to challenge BW to a duel or something when he's in a public place, with his daughter's wedding party on the weekend of his her wedding? Good plan.

Nice strawman. In your rather peculiar world-view apparently there seems to be no middle ground between "Hey how you doing coach?" and "Let's duel with pistols at Noon."?

I agree that most anyone would say 'hello' but most anyone wouldn't run a nearly non-stop diatribe on a website for 5 years constantly berating someone and begging to get them fired and stating that Weber had destroyed or nearly so something precious to them. So, that said, the norms of public behavior might not apply here.

How about a simple, "Coach I wish you luck at K State but you and the Illini program would be a lot better off if you'd quit making public comments about how you got fired."?

Not complex or difficult.

[UncleBob]

Originally Posted by DaytonIllini

Nice strawman. In your rather peculiar world-view apparently there seems to be no middle ground between "Hey how you doing coach?" and "Let's duel with pistols at Noon."?

I agree that most anyone would say 'hello' but most anyone wouldn't run a nearly non-stop diatribe on a website for 5 years constantly berating someone and begging to get them fired and stating that Weber had destroyed or nearly so something precious to them. So, that said, the norms of public behavior might not apply here.

How about a simple, "Coach I wish you luck at K State but you and the Illini program would be a lot better off if you'd quit making public comments about how you got fired."?

Not complex or difficult.

And not appropriate to say anything other than 'hello' at that time and place in my opinion....obviously you hold a different opinion. Isn't this a great forum and a great country?

[pizzaman]

Originally Posted by UncleBob

[/B]

And not appropriate to say anything other than 'hello' at that time and place in my opinion....obviously you hold a different opinion. Isn't this a great forum and a great country?

I agree. He's no longer the Illini coach and being critical of his performance in a public place is no better than Bruce continuing to be critical of MT. It's done, get over it.

[scubadunk]

Originally Posted by DaytonIllini

Nice strawman. In your rather peculiar world-view apparently there seems to be no middle ground between "Hey how you doing coach?" and "Let's duel with pistols at Noon."?

I agree that most anyone would say 'hello' but most anyone wouldn't run a nearly non-stop diatribe on a website for 5 years constantly berating someone and begging to get them fired and stating that Weber had destroyed or nearly so something precious to them. So, that said, the norms of public behavior might not apply here.

How about a simple, "Coach I wish you luck at K State but you and the Illini program would be a lot better off if you'd quit making public comments about how you got fired."?

Not complex or difficult.

Would you have done it? I doubt it and using the whole hiding behind a message board is why you have message boards. It would not have been the appropriate time and would have done no good. Sure OF has taken much of alot of peoples time by arguing strongly against BW but we who argue are also to blame for responding back. That is why we get on these boards. To get good insider information and to make our feelings and points known. Its therapeutic.

[Jani Lane]

Originally Posted by Psycho 86

You may not like what OF has to say but he has never waivered in his convictions. In the worst of times is when a persons real character shows. I have watched BW change as times got harder. OF has continued to state his opinion even tho many posters have given him heat.
BW hopefully has learned from his mistakes at Illinois but I doubt it and he will more than likely run KState down the same road as he took Illinois.

The problem I have, or I think others have with OF, is not him having a negative opinion on Weber. The problem I have is the non stop barrage on Bruce and anything and everything he says or does. Bruce can wear a purple tie at his daughter's wedding and that will prompt OF to provide us with yet another long-winded post related to what's wrong with Bruce. It's just repetetive nonsense and probably a violation of one of the forum rules.

And the thing that bothers me the most is that his rants and opinions are clearly biased and inconsistent. He will praise Lorenzo Romar ad nauseum who coincidentally has a VERY similar resume to Bruce over a very similar number of years. Somehow LoRo is a god and Bruce is bum. It just bothers me the inconsistency in that and his logic in general.

[scubadunk]

Originally Posted by Jani Lane

The problem I have, or I think others have with OF, is not him having a negative opinion on Weber. The problem I have is the non stop barrage on Bruce and anything and everything he says or does. Bruce can wear a purple tie at his daughter's wedding and that will prompt OF to provide us with yet another long-winded post related to what's wrong with Bruce. It's just repetetive nonsense and probably a violation of one of the forum rules.

And the thing that bothers me the most is that his rants and opinions are clearly biased and inconsistent. He will praise Lorenzo Romar ad nauseum who coincidentally has a VERY similar resume to Bruce over a very similar number of years. Somehow LoRo is a god and Bruce is bum. It just bothers me the inconsistency in that and his logic in general.

And as long as he has an audience that responds he will keep persisting in bombading us with his views.

[OrangeFever]

Originally Posted by CARPET

When you saw Coach Weber did you man up and share your thoughts OF? Did you share what you think is the truth as you say? I am sure you did not tell him what you are thinking 24-7.

18 million post later you still at it, I get it let's hide behind a key board.

Coach Weber is honest as the day is long almost to a fault and it is a shame that some can say he can't see the truth when he lives it every day.

You guys are so funny. I met Weber when I was having breakfast with old friends, and I do mean old--the parents of my best friend. He saw Weber and invited him to our table, introduced me and we both said hello. Weber announced he was in town for his younger daughter's wedding and was hosting the groomsmen for breakfast, they were then playing golf, but not him. He returned to his table, we finished our breakfast and on the way out, passed his, said goodbye, and wished his family well in the wedding--among the happiest days of a parents' lives. His son in law was a the table, as was the impending groom.

And into that circumstance, you're suggesting I say, "Bruce, it's not a pleasure to meet you because I believe with all my heart that you wrecked our basketball program and now you are misrepresenting your boss, your players, and your own actions. Were you not showing yourself to be a petulant child, I might greet you considerately, but, as it is, you are a loser and a whiner, and I bid you good riddance.
?
Right. Fellas, you need some basic training in etiquette. This is a MESSAGE BOARD. Chill, boys, chill. I know it's hard to be proven wrong, but, still, take the pill . . . CHILL.

[pizzaman]

Originally Posted by OrangeFever

And into that circumstance, you're suggesting I say, "Bruce, it's not a pleasure to meet you because I believe with all my heart that you wrecked our basketball program and now you are misrepresenting your boss, your players, and your own actions. Were you not showing yourself to be a petulant child, I might greet you considerately, but, as it is, you are a loser and a whiner, and I bid you good riddance.

If he reads this site, he knows who you are! I'll bet you're on his list for revenge.

[OrangeFever]

Originally Posted by scubadunk

Would you have done it? I doubt it and using the whole hiding behind a message board is why you have message boards. It would not have been the appropriate time and would have done no good. Sure OF has taken much of alot of peoples time by arguing strongly against BW but we who argue are also to blame for responding back. That is why we get on these boards. To get good insider information and to make our feelings and points known. Its therapeutic.

Bingo, though I'm uncertain how I've taken a micro-second of anyone's time? Other posters have given me much time, some happily, some begrudgingly, some downright angrily. I've posted my views, as I have for years, and especially concerning Weber. Most of them, to be frank, have been proven correct.

This all started with me simply announcing a rather odd Weber siting for me, while my time in C-U for a family wedding overlapped with his for a family wedding, and our paths crossed at Le Peep, each of us dining with close friends and family. The irony of the meeting certainly was not lost on me or my wife. Irony is a concept not understood by many posters here, it would seem. Some saw it immediately, others lapsed into frothing, finger pointing, and attack posts. Just saying . . .

I would say my resentments of Weber are matched by the resentments of some here who either oppose my views, or object to having to consume substantical quanties of crow. For those who share those two things, it has to be majestically galling.

And, Bruce just keeps supplying material that is more and more proof positive.

The only thing about Weber that surprised me in the short, chance meeting was how tan he looked. I'm guessing he and his wife may have taken a little time off somewhere in there. He looked healthy, and he looked SO MUCH BETTER in purple than in orange or navy blue. I can't tell you how pleased I was to see him in him K-State attire. That alone probably gave me a better attitude, and, I hadn't seen his latest bogus comments, which also helped. But, obviously, had he called Mike Thomas a raging ingrate and the players quitters, losers, and misfits, I still would not have done anything differently. Nor would any poster on this board, regardless of perspective, though some might foamingly have requested an autograph. I was merely polite, nothing more, and I said nothing along the lines of, "Good luck, big fella". It was "Hello Coach Weber," and, later, "Best wishes on your daughter's wedding, and best wishes to the groom." Last time I checked, that was fundamental, unadorned politeness. It wasn't a debate setting, a press conference, or a private meeting.

Get this, the new son-in-law has a job in the area and I believe he and Weber's daughter plan to live, for now, in Champaign. So, the University and the town most certainly has not seen the last of one of its least favorite former residents.

[OrangeFever]

Originally Posted by pizzaman

If he reads this site, he knows who you are! I'll bet you're on his list for revenge.

Were he a vengeful person, maybe, but he's not. He's socially and politically inept. He's at some level well meaning, but he's blinded by his conception of himself and his abilities, convinced he's the second coming of . . . Gene Keady, who he somehow convinced himself is Woodenesque. None of it makes any sense, but that's because Bruce operates in a modified version of life and the truth, of his own creation, and he doggedly protects his view. It's the only one he has. He's not hateful, I don't think, just sadly misguided.

He does not, cannot, see the truth. Vengeful? No. Out to lunch permanently? That's closer to accurate.

He's K-State's problem now.

[hermie1985]

Originally Posted by OrangeFever

Were he a vengeful person, maybe, but he's not. He's socially and politically inept. He's at some level well meaning, but he's blinded by his conception of himself and his abilities, convinced he's the second coming of . . . Gene Keady, who he somehow convinced himself is Woodenesque. None of it makes any sense, but that's because Bruce operates in a modified version of life and the truth, of his own creation, and he doggedly protects his view. It's the only one he has. He's not hateful, I don't think, just sadly misguided.

Out to lunch permanently? That's closer to accurate.

He's K-State's problem now.

I thought you saw him at breakfast.

[DaytonIllini]

Originally Posted by scubadunk

Would you have done it? I doubt it and using the whole hiding behind a message board is why you have message boards. It would not have been the appropriate time and would have done no good. Sure OF has taken much of alot of peoples time by arguing strongly against BW but we who argue are also to blame for responding back. That is why we get on these boards. To get good insider information and to make our feelings and points known. Its therapeutic.

I think you are missing the point. Of course I wouldn't have done anything but greet him pleasantly. I am rather fond of him. I don't look to nitpick the old coach's every decision for half a decade and then claim we have to just trust the new coach.

But, by way of analogy, I do have a rather similar problem with a certain politician and his absurd policy regarding something I won't get into on this board. You can bet your rear end that if I met him at breakfast, lunch or dinner, I'd make a point of letting him know it. Pleasantly of course.

[BrooksTaylorFan]

Originally Posted by OrangeFever

You guys are so funny. I met Weber when I was having breakfast with old friends, and I do mean old--the parents of my best friend. He saw Weber and invited him to our table, introduced me and we both said hello. Weber announced he was in town for his younger daughter's wedding and was hosting the groomsmen for breakfast, they were then playing golf, but not him. He returned to his table, we finished our breakfast and on the way out, passed his, said goodbye, and wished his family well in the wedding--among the happiest days of a parents' lives. His son in law was a the table, as was the impending groom.

And into that circumstance, you're suggesting I say, "Bruce, it's not a pleasure to meet you because I believe with all my heart that you wrecked our basketball program and now you are misrepresenting your boss, your players, and your own actions. Were you not showing yourself to be a petulant child, I might greet you considerately, but, as it is, you are a loser and a whiner, and I bid you good riddance.
?
Right. Fellas, you need some basic training in etiquette. This is a MESSAGE BOARD. Chill, boys, chill. I know it's hard to be proven wrong, but, still, take the pill . . . CHILL.

Fever- It cracks me up that you get attacked for your negative Weber comments and then get attacked for not going after Weber in a public setting. I guess you just can't win. :laugh: I guess you aren't as classless as others think that you are. :laugh:

I for one was a Weber supporter until this season and I have never been offended by any of your comments. Sometimes people just don't like to hear the truth.

[OrangeFever]

Originally Posted by hermie1985

I thought you saw him at breakfast.

Ha ha! It was breakfast, but catch your drift. He's so out to lunch, I think he skips that meal entirely. In fact, based on a couple of obtuse comments he made, I believe he thought he was at lunch when we met. It seemed to throw him off.

[OrangeFever]

Originally Posted by BrooksTaylorFan

Fever- It cracks me up that you get attacked for your negative Weber comments and then get attacked for not going after Weber in a public setting. I guess you just can't win. :laugh: I guess you aren't as classless as others think that you are. :laugh:

I for one was a Weber supporter until this season and I have never been offended by any of your comments. Sometimes people just don't like to hear the truth.

I know. But here's the deal--it doesn't have a thing to do with Weber for the objecting posters. It has to do with animosity toward me. I get that. But it's pretty ridiculous when people actually try to suggest a rationale. They certainly wouldn't want me to eviscerate Bruce in public, but they try to make some sort of bizarre case that this is what consistency requires.

I've never lost sight of the forest for the trees with Bruce Weber. To me, he has been a diseased tree, probably from the outset, but concealed in a denser forest and so protected. But his weakness was exposed as the forest thinned and the protective cover diminished. His bizarre and self-revelatory behavior this past season and miserable job of managing his team, was the wind gust needed to topple him. He's been the same weak tree all along, but many didn't see it, didn't recognze, or were unwilling to acknowledge,the tell tale signs, until it was beyond obvious.

Those who so wanted him to be great and lead the program to greatness, are disappointed, many embarrassed, and they are ready to shift their anger to other places.

I'm a ready target for the most vitriolic former disciples. When the person to whom you've tied your philosophical wagon is proven a fraud, it's disconcerting and easier to look for a target than to man up and admit you were dead wrong about that person. I don't have that problem, as I've always recogized Weber as a coach who is badly lacking and incompetent to run a major D-1 program.

What I find incredible is that another program was willing to gamble such outrageous money to roll the dice with this guy. We pay through the nose, ears, eyes, and mouth to get rid of the guy, and somebody else antes up to let him try his hand with them. Go figure.

I think K-State will rue the day.

[OrangeFever]

Originally Posted by DaytonIllini

I think you are missing the point. Of course I wouldn't have done anything but greet him pleasantly. I am rather fond of him. I don't look to nitpick the old coach's every decision for half a decade and then claim we have to just trust the new coach.

But, by way of analogy, I do have a rather similar problem with a certain politician and his absurd policy regarding something I won't get into on this board. You can bet your rear end that if I met him at breakfast, lunch or dinner, I'd make a point of letting him know it. Pleasantly of course.

Oh, I've no doubt you would . . . RIGHT! It's an easy statement to make, unprovable, naturally. It's also utterly inapposite. BW isn't a politician, but were he, and were he encountered in a family/personal setting, divorced from his vocational or political life, you would say nothing of the kind, unless you have no sense of propriety or human courtesy.

Maybe it's just me, but last I checked, family gatherings for joyous occasions in public places, are not message boards. Maybe that's a bit too nuanced for you . . .?

Only a crude, completely insentive person, or someone with serious mental limitations and lack of awareness, would do as is being suggested. We all know this. That's why it's so absurd and so patently a matter of face saving and scape goating for the complainers. If you can't beat 'em, call 'em Commies . . .

It isn't the point. The point is personal antagonism toward the person reporting a benign event. No other expression makes any sense, though I also have no doubt whatsoever you'll try to advance yet another oblique salvo designed to make something ludicrous sound sensible.

I'm astonished certain posters can't control their prejudices enough to not comment, but feel compelled to editorialize the report of an objective occurrence, the mere sharing of information, thus re-opening the very debate they supposedly find repulsive. My wife is a counselor. In her field, this is referred to as "self-destructive behavior". It's a form of co-dependence, or, using a Biblical analogy, like "a dog returning to its vomit".

If people don't want to keep getting knocked down, they should refrain from standing up in the line of fire and shouting "You with the gun, you're an idiot, shoot me again, I dare ya!!!!"

So long as Weber keeps flapping his jaws and advancing his revisionist apologetics, and posters here keep consuming the bait with such relish, it will continue. We are observing human nature at work in spades, and the personal antagonists will not be able to take the better part of wisdom and stop theiir whining, any more than Bruce can cease his.

[GeorgiaIllini]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...p&sct=hp_wr_a5

Nice review of our hire, and a not so nice view of hiring BW at KSU.

[OrangeFever]

Originally Posted by DaytonIllini

Nice strawman. In your rather peculiar world-view apparently there seems to be no middle ground between "Hey how you doing coach?" and "Let's duel with pistols at Noon."?

I agree that most anyone would say 'hello' but most anyone wouldn't run a nearly non-stop diatribe on a website for 5 years constantly berating someone and begging to get them fired and stating that Weber had destroyed or nearly so something precious to them. So, that said, the norms of public behavior might not apply here.

How about a simple, "Coach I wish you luck at K State but you and the Illini program would be a lot better off if you'd quit making public comments about how you got fired."?

Not complex or difficult.

Dayton, you're simply wrong, and you know it, but won't admit it. The statement you suggest is ridiculous, would be superfluous, would have no value whatsoever, would work no change, and would merely rub salt into the man's wounds at an incredibily inappropriate time.

You can't truly be serious. You won't lose face by making such a modest and sensible admission. No one here is flawless, certainly not me. I have, however, been consistent. There is nothing actually or theoretically inconsistent about neutrally greeting a person to whom one is introduced in such a setting without turning things into an editorial commentary. To do so would be terribly rude and boorish, something only a rube would you. You may be many things, but a rube you are not. You know better.

[OrangeFever]

Originally Posted by GeorgiaIllini

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...p&sct=hp_wr_a5

Nice review of our hire, and a not so nice view of hiring BW at KSU.

This sort of compelling, sensible logic should shut some people up, but likely won't. Again, Weber will make his whining, "poor me" pitch at every opportunity, will continue to gall and alienate all of his former fans at Illinois, to enrage his former employer, and to give rise to even more substantial doubts among Wildcat fans.

Bruce rapidly is making himself a laughing stock, a sad little boy who lacks judgment and perspective. While it's awful to think we had to pay the guy nearly $4 Million to go away, it was the best possible deal Mike Thomas could have made. In John Groce, he has a guy likely to be willing to stay for the long pull, not a flare like Shaka who would, within a very few years, likely have been headed to a true national power or to the NBA for multiple millions more, a la Lon Kruger and, of course, the strategically brilliant Bill Self. I am quite sure neither of those men regret their time at Illinois, or their departures, which made them rich.

Weber, likewise, has been enriched by his time at Illinois. He is milking the near-title run handed to him by Kruger and Self, to the absolute max. He got his second big contract, and it likely will be his last. More power to him for getting another big payday on the heels of being an underachieving loser in Champaign, but shame on him for painting publically a disparaging picture of MT and the University that made his career and made him wealthy.

He should be conveying his abject apologies for failing so completely to capitalize on his free pass, instead of crying in his beer and looking to blame anyone and everyone in Champaign-Urbana for his stumbling, bumbling, ineffective ways.