Big Ten Football Media Days - Tim Beckman vs Bill O'Brien

[256ILLINI]

There is a key difference between PSU and SMU.

SMU players had no football team when they were given the death penalty, Penn State players can stay there and play and most of them want to do that

[Thacher_H_Guild]

Originally Posted by 256ILLINI

There is a key difference between PSU and SMU.

SMU players had no football team when they were given the death penalty, Penn State players can stay there and play and most of them want to do that

Well, sure. But it was supposed to be just one year. How dare somebody come and try to take "their" players?

[256ILLINI]

Even though it was only for 1 year, I still think there is a big difference.

Now do I agree with Dickie V calling Illinois coaches vultures? No way, that old man needs to shut it. He's been taking sides for years and playing like he's unbiased.

I don't feel bad for PSU, I wish every team was on their campus recruiting their players, but PSU is dealing with a situation unlike SMU's. Kids went to SMU because they were paid, kids go to PSU for other reasons, not sure what those reasons will be from now on though. I guess their players are taking an "us against the world" approach which is pathetic

[FormerIllini]

Originally Posted by 256ILLINI

There is a key difference between PSU and SMU.

SMU players had no football team when they were given the death penalty, Penn State players can stay there and play and most of them want to do that

I think you're missing the point others have made. Regardless if they have a team or not, Coach Beckman's statement was that the players reached out to him. I see no issue with this. This is just a bunch of he said, (s)he said b.s. I will stand by our Coach until somebody can come along and prove otherwise.

P.S. Urban and the other coaches playing the holier than thou card can suck it.

[mattcoldagelli]

256, by that logic, schools should be given even more latitude to contact Nittany Lion players. SMU players were complicit in the problem, while the PSU players had nothing to do with it.

[DaytonIllini]

The bottom line is that ESPN college BB announcers including Bilas and Vitale have spoken out loudly that the program was not at fault at PSU. It was an isolated incident.

These people are part of the problem.

[Sure Shot]

Originally Posted by DaytonIllini

The bottom line is that ESPN college BB announcers including Bilas and Vitale have spoken out loudly that the program was not at fault at PSU. It was an isolated incident.

These people are part of the problem.

Define "isolated incident"

[Clemens]

Originally Posted by DaytonIllini

The bottom line is that ESPN college BB announcers including Bilas and Vitale have spoken out loudly that the program was not at fault at PSU. It was an isolated incident.

These people are part of the problem.

One of the points that they are missing is that the child molestation that occurred was covered up to protect PSU and PSU football. Had PSU done what was right and investigated and taken appropriate action, they wouldn't be in the mess they find themselves in. No one would have blamed them for what happened if they had pursued an investigation of Sandusky and in the end couldn't get a conviction. They are in trouble because they aided a child molester.

[FormerIllini]

Originally Posted by DaytonIllini

The bottom line is that ESPN college BB announcers including Bilas and Vitale have spoken out loudly that the program was not at fault at PSU. It was an isolated incident.

These people are part of the problem.

Wish there was a like button for this. I am at UF (or FU depending on which opinion you hold of them) for grad school and the overwhelming majority of students here seem to side with the announcers. It amazes me. It doesn't matter if this was an isolated incident. The fact is that a pedophile was harbored by the administration and coaching staff. I don't care if it was just one or 2 of them that made the decision either. In this case silence makes you just as guilty. Shame on them for not having the balls to step up and put a stop to this.

[UofIChE06]

The biggest thing that bothers me is the lack of due process. I feel like the trials of Curley and Schultz should have occurred before the Freeh report was issued or the NCAA made a ruling. I don't know how there will be a fair and impartial jury in the country. Freeh became the judge and the jury and the NCAA is the executioner. If they were convicted of criminal wrong doing I don't think there would be much in the way of an stance for PSU. If your AD is put in jail for lack of institutional control then that's game over.

[Thacher_H_Guild]

Originally Posted by 256ILLINI

Even though it was only for 1 year, I still think there is a big difference.

Of course there is a difference, but the larger point is PSU is just as opportunistic as the next place. Probably more so given the unusual dynamics of the place.

If anybody can give me one piece of evidence that suggests O'Brien or Penn State would have refused to talk to a player who contacted them in a similar circumstance, then I'll believe O'Brien has a right to whine about this. Anyone? Anyone?

All we have is evidence that Penn State has taken every recruiting opportunity afforded to them under the rules. Plus there is the little matter of the NCAA saying that they are not supposed to interfere in any way with player's decisions about transferring. They are sure abiding by the spirit of that, aren't they? (That's sarcasm.) Given how concerned O'Brien is about courtesy, you would think he would NEVER, ever use the media to try to publicly shame anybody who might think about moving on to a better situation, but that is exactly what he has been doing. Seems pretty discourteous to me.

[FinalFour88]

Originally Posted by Thacher_H_Guild

Of course there is a difference, but the larger point is PSU is just as opportunistic as the next place. Probably more so given the unusual dynamics of the place.

If anybody can give me one piece of evidence that suggests O'Brien or Penn State would have refused to talk to a player who contacted them in a similar circumstance, then I'll believe O'Brien has a right to whine about this. Anyone? Anyone?

All we have is evidence that Penn State has taken every recruiting opportunity afforded to them under the rules. Plus there is the little matter of the NCAA saying that they are not supposed to interfere in any way with player's decisions about transferring. They are sure abiding by the spirit of that, aren't they? (That's sarcasm.) Given how concerned O'Brien is about courtesy, you would think he would NEVER, ever use the media to try to publicly shame anybody who might think about moving on to a better situation, but that is exactly what he has been doing. Seems pretty discourteous to me.

O'Brien has a right to whine about this, but I have the right to not care about Penn State whining. I have zero sympathy for Penn State in this situation.

[mdonsbach]

Originally Posted by Thacher_H_Guild

Of course there is a difference, but the larger point is PSU is just as opportunistic as the next place. Probably more so given the unusual dynamics of the place.

If anybody can give me one piece of evidence that suggests O'Brien or Penn State would have refused to talk to a player who contacted them in a similar circumstance, then I'll believe O'Brien has a right to whine about this. Anyone? Anyone?

All we have is evidence that Penn State has taken every recruiting opportunity afforded to them under the rules. Plus there is the little matter of the NCAA saying that they are not supposed to interfere in any way with player's decisions about transferring. They are sure abiding by the spirit of that, aren't they? (That's sarcasm.) Given how concerned O'Brien is about courtesy, you would think he would NEVER, ever use the media to try to publicly shame anybody who might think about moving on to a better situation, but that is exactly what he has been doing. Seems pretty discourteous to me.

I think you mean classless per Dick. Oh wait PSU could never be classless.

[Indicchief]

Originally Posted by 256ILLINI

There is a key difference between PSU and SMU.

SMU players had no football team when they were given the death penalty, Penn State players can stay there and play and most of them want to do that

Only for a year (1987). They had a reduced schedule the next year - so there was a team in 1988.

[Jules]

Why should the coaches not wear illini clothing...they weren't trying to hide anything and they weren't doing anything wrong.....

[Sybok]

Originally Posted by UofIChE06

The biggest thing that bothers me is the lack of due process. I feel like the trials of Curley and Schultz should have occurred before the Freeh report was issued or the NCAA made a ruling. I don't know how there will be a fair and impartial jury in the country. Freeh became the judge and the jury and the NCAA is the executioner. If they were convicted of criminal wrong doing I don't think there would be much in the way of an stance for PSU. If your AD is put in jail for lack of institutional control then that's game over.

Due process? The NCAA isn't the US court system. It's an association. An association is free to make decisions however it wants. As for waiting until Curley and Schultz trials, why would you wait another year to year and a half for PSU football to go on operating business as usual? Again, the NCAA isn't involved in the criminal portion of the case. All that matters is whether or not the association's rules have been violated, and the NCAA believes clearly that PSU has done so.

[Dan]

Illini AD Mike Thomas on WDWS Saturday morning.

Mike Thomas talks about the Illinois-Penn State controversy-


Well I contacted the school [Penn State].

How the whole process started, as you know, the NCAA and Big Ten basically laid down the rules as to the opportunity for their student athletes at Penn State to go other places if they choose, and actually not even have to sit out a year. Which in both cases is unusual.

That being said, as it relates to the Big Ten conference, the protocol really was- if you were going to pursue any of their kids that the communication be from the athletic director of the school that had the interest to David Joyner the Penn State AD. That in fact happened. David acknowledged that.

As best as I can understand, from my coaches, it's a matter of kids or their families reaching out to them. And so we did have the coaches go in that direction. Never went on campus. They had some conversations, I can't tell you how many.

But at the end of the day it was really about kids who had an interest in the University of Illinois. It wasn't there to be an aggressive sales pitch, that wasn't it at all.

If the kids are interested, we'll listen and we'll have that dialogue. If they're not interested -- even if they expressed interest early on -- then we would back off. And that's what happened.

Matter of fact, the day after, I spoke to [PSU AD] David Joyner first thing in the morning and he was fine with everything. He felt that we had handled the whole situation appropriately.

So long story short I think the criticism from some folks out there, it was unfair. And in my mind wasn't appropriate.


Starts 52:30-

Saturday Sportsline 7-28-12

[FormerIllini]

Well stated Mr. Thomas.

[GilThorpe]

but the idiot PSU fanbase wont care and there are still biased people out there that want to create a story, so they wont let the facts get in the way.

[SurfTheBoneyard]

Originally Posted by 256ILLINI

There is a key difference between PSU and SMU.

SMU players had no football team when they were given the death penalty, Penn State players can stay there and play and most of them want to do that

Here are some other key differences.

SMU got the death penalty in FEBRUARY. Those kids still had 4-5 months to decide if they wanted to go elsewhere and where that would be. Yet, Penn State and the other schools descended ON THEIR CAMPUS the very next day in droves.

The PSU players have maybe a couple of weeks to decide to go elsewhere if they don't want to be late to camp. School starts in about 3-4 weeks at most places. If anything, schools did them a favor by going to PA to have an initial meeting, gauge fit and interest, etc. rather than them having to jet around the country to see if these schools interested them. Lots of other schools did the same thing. Coach Beckman, et al. were just honest about it.

Also, even though SMU got the death penalty and PSU didn't, does anyone want to seriously argue that PSU somehow deserves a level of respect and better treatment as an institution and a football program that SMU was not entitled to, even by Joe Paterno himself and Penn State? Does anyone want to seriously argue that what SMU did was worse than what Penn State did, despite the difference in punishment? SMU lied about money.

[UofIChE06]

Originally Posted by Sybok

Due process? The NCAA isn't the US court system. It's an association. An association is free to make decisions however it wants. As for waiting until Curley and Schultz trials, why would you wait another year to year and a half for PSU football to go on operating business as usual? Again, the NCAA isn't involved in the criminal portion of the case. All that matters is whether or not the association's rules have been violated, and the NCAA believes clearly that PSU has done so.

The NCAA is saying PSU violated rules based on the Freeh report that concludes that the AD among others withheld information pertaining to a crime. That sounds an awful lot like what they will be on trial for. What is going on has everything to do with the pending legal case. It just seems they jumped to the conclusion using the court of public opinion instead of the legal system that is in place for these matters. So what if the legal system says that Curley and Schultz did not commit any crimes? Does the NCAA undo its verdict or does the NCAA trump the American legal system? It really says something about Americans that the legal system now plays out in the media and the court of public opinion rather than the way that the country has used for centuries.

[mattcoldagelli]

Originally Posted by SurfTheBoneyard

Also, even though SMU got the death penalty and PSU didn't, does anyone want to seriously argue that PSU somehow deserves a level of respect and better treatment as an institution and a football program that SMU was not entitled to, even by Joe Paterno himself and Penn State? Does anyone want to seriously argue that what SMU did was worse than what Penn State did, despite the difference in punishment? SMU lied about money.

Apparently, Dick Vitale does.

[UofIChE06]

I mean let's face it the only reason UI was singled out was because they were wearing UI clothes. If they were in street clothes like all of the other coaches in state college this story never happens. I am sure O'Brien would like to call out everyone he can but he can't put them at the scene as easily as Beckman and company.

[JSpence]

Originally Posted by Ransom Stoddard

I've been posting at him off and on for the last 18 hours on twitter. I think what Dickie forgets is that sooner or later he will be doing a game from the Hall this year, and it may wind up being a very cold reception. Hopefully Krush can come up with something useful to taunt him with.

"They called us!"

"Who asked you?"

[SurfTheBoneyard]

Originally Posted by UofIChE06

Does the NCAA undo its verdict or does the NCAA trump the American legal system?

No because Penn State agreed to the punishment. Essentially, Penn State pled guilty before trial to the NCAA's charges. They did not want to take the chances of waiting until all the civil and criminal cases were done. If they decided to fight, they were looking at a couple of years of full blown investigation and a possible 4 year death penalty at the end. They made their choice. You don't get due process or an appeal when you plead guilty.