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Old Feb 18, 2013, 08:00 AM   #6776
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Originally Posted by WesterveltVictoryCigar View Post
They would have had to have gone on their own, you can't give a PSA tickets to a road game. Even if you do have more fans there than the home team.
I think he meant Chicago/Illini recruits giving Northwestern a visit just cause they're a Big Ten team in Chicago.

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Old Feb 18, 2013, 08:02 AM   #6777
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I think he meant Chicago/Illini recruits giving Northwestern a visit just cause they're a Big Ten team in Chicago.
Jabari Parker was at the game last season.

But we generally do not recruit the same players, or at least players that Northwestern has a legit shot at getting. I have not heard of any players that visited Northwestern yesterday though.

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Old Feb 18, 2013, 08:06 AM   #6778
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Originally Posted by BrooksTaylorFan View Post
Everything I am hearing is that Lee is Groce's if he wants him. We'll see what happens. I can't imagine any announcement until after the season since we have no schollies available right now. Lee said himself that he would wait until after the season to decide.
I'm a few days behind in this thread, but I've been wondering about the timing of his planned decision and the chances he goes with the Illini. I want to assume it is to wait to see how the schollie situation pans out for the Illini.

Is it uncommon or bad form for a JUCO/fifth year grad transfer to announce a move while in season with his current school?

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Old Feb 18, 2013, 08:08 AM   #6779
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Originally Posted by SimonHoffman View Post
Nunn will wear #25. I see Hill taking ID's #23.
Does that mean Ibby is on his way out?...

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Old Feb 18, 2013, 08:09 AM   #6780
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Originally Posted by combes View Post
Just in case he reads this board, it is "Ulis" not Ullis"

Unless we want to add him to
Randall
Webber
Krueger
McLain
Meachum
Frasier
Sean Pruitt
Corey Bradford
Ingrum
Myers Leonard
Carwell
Luther Powell, Jr.
Etc
:laugh:

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Old Feb 18, 2013, 08:09 AM   #6781
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Originally Posted by DaytonIllini View Post
I think the key point about whether or not Lyle is a pure PG remains the obvious question of whether we would take Lyle AND a Zabo or similar player in the '14 class. Those that think he is the answer at the PG position because he 'claims' that is what Groce says would probably think we would take ONE of the two but not both. I tend to think that we would take both should that happy eventuality present itself.

Again, I think Lyle ends up at OSU but should we get him, that to me would not solve our ball handling issues.
When it comes to PG's with big-time scoring ability, take all you can get.
Dribbling and passing skills would be a welcomed sight based on what we've been subjected to the past several years.
I'd much rather us have to slide a PG over to SG periodically than the other way around.
In transition, imagine everyone being able to take off down the floor instead of waiting for the PG to come back to receive the ball.
Just kick it out to a competent ball-handler on either wing and let them attack the rim and either finish or distribute to open shooters or slashers.
No matter what combination of Lyle, Zabo, Austin, and Ulis we end up with (as long as we get at least one), we get better.

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Old Feb 18, 2013, 08:26 AM   #6782
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Notice how "Creaning" negatively effects recruiting.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 08:33 AM   #6783
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Originally Posted by Kramer116 View Post
I generally agree, but a few things I will disagree about. First, these are not Groce's players except the 2013 kids coming in next season. Also, in Groce's words, scholarships are gold. You only get 13 of them. If you say a guy like Ibby is at UI for the education, that is a "waste". I like Ibby a lot, it is a great story, and he is a great kid.

It will be interesting to see how things shake out. We actually have plenty of time for everything to sort out.
If you look at it from a business perspective, we are not getting much on our return for that free education. We are still dealing with kid's lives though and I trust JG understands that. It will be interesting indeed.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 08:46 AM   #6784
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Originally Posted by joekam View Post
I'm a few days behind in this thread, but I've been wondering about the timing of his planned decision and the chances he goes with the Illini. I want to assume it is to wait to see how the schollie situation pans out for the Illini.

Is it uncommon or bad form for a JUCO/fifth year grad transfer to announce a move while in season with his current school?
I know that coaches are allowed to go one over on commits, but I don't see Groce doing it in his first year. This fragile team is finally starting to put it together and the last thing he wants to do is have everyone asking who is not going to be here next season. Lee has already came out and said that he won't announce until after the season anyways.

What I have heard is that Lee wants to come to Illlinois if Groce will have him. Does he want him? I'm not sure. Lyle is definitely option #1, but he could definitely take both if several guys will be leaving. We'll just have to wait and see what happens.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 08:48 AM   #6785
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Originally Posted by TheBossIllini View Post
Notice how "Creaning" negatively effects recruiting.
To answer your question ( and I assume that this is your point) "NO", I do not see a negative effect.

If you have something to sell . . . and it could be tradition, facilities, conference, atmosphere, whatever . . . and you improve the product I do not see the negative. That is likely because I am not associated with a recruit and never have been. So, the ugly underside of recruiting I have never seen. I assume that there is one, but for me, the fan miles and miles away from that side of the game, I see no effect at all.

That said, I do not like Creaning. I wish that the NCAA would insist that either a scholarship was a 4 year deal (5 if redshirted or injured) or that a player can transfer immediately without sitting. Either is better than status quo imo.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 08:50 AM   #6786
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To answer your question ( and I assume that this is your point) "NO", I do not see a negative effect.

If you have something to sell . . . and it could be tradition, facilities, conference, atmosphere, whatever . . . and you improve the product I do not see the negative. That is likely because I am not associated with a recruit and never have been. So, the ugly underside of recruiting I have never seen. I assume that there is one, but for me, the fan miles and miles away from that side of the game, I see no effect at all.

That said, I do not like Creaning. I wish that the NCAA would insist that either a scholarship was a 4 year deal (5 if redshirted or injured) or that a player can transfer immediately without sitting. Either is better than status quo imo.
Groce and his staff wouldn't just cut a kid out and leave him hanging. They would definitely find a better situation where the kid would get more minutes to play. Why wouldn't a kid like Shaw want to go home to Chicago and be able to play significant minutes with a team like Depaul or UIC?
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 08:57 AM   #6787
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Groce and his staff wouldn't just cut a kid out and leave him hanging. They would definitely find a better situation where the kid would get more minutes to play. Why wouldn't a kid like Shaw want to go home to Chicago and be able to play significant minutes with a team like Depaul or UIC?
'Cuz he would have to sit a year.
That is 3 years without playing . . . all the way back to high school.
I realize that he likely won't play a meaningful role at Illinois if he stays, so I see the conflict. I (sort of) feel it. I feel bad for him. I was delighted when he committed to Illinois. Remember thinking "4 star player, skilled, this is excellent". Turns out to be no so excellent. Life is hard and some people learn this at a younger age than others.

All that noise aside, I hope that he does go someplace that is good for him. Not sure that DePaul would take him, btw, not because he wouldn't help their team. He likely would do that. But, rather because it would be potentially awkward for them to say "Sure, we cherish Illinois hand-me-downs. Got anymore?"

We will see pretty soon I would guess.
Announcements in the week or two after the season ends are par for the course?
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 08:57 AM   #6788
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Originally Posted by BrooksTaylorFan View Post
Groce and his staff wouldn't just cut a kid out and leave him hanging. They would definitely find a better situation where the kid would get more minutes to play. Why wouldn't a kid like Shaw want to go home to Chicago and be able to play significant minutes with a team like Depaul or UIC?
Better education at Illinois.

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Old Feb 18, 2013, 09:03 AM   #6789
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Originally Posted by FeelYourPaign View Post
'Cuz he would have to sit a year.
That is 3 years without playing . . . all the way back to high school.
I realize that he likely won't play a meaningful role at Illinois if he stays, so I see the conflict. I (sort of) feel it. I feel bad for him. I was delighted when he committed to Illinois. Remember thinking "4 star player, skilled, this is excellent". Turns out to be no so excellent. Life is hard and some people learn this at a younger age than others.

All that noise aside, I hope that he does go someplace that is good for him. Not sure that DePaul would take him, btw, not because he wouldn't help their team. He likely would do that. But, rather because it would be potentially awkward for them to say "Sure, we cherish Illinois hand-me-downs. Got anymore?"

We will see pretty soon I would guess.
Announcements in the week or two after the season ends are par for the course?
Sitting out a year does suck, but he's only played a whopping 50 minutes so far this season. And he will continue to get buried with guys like Colbert and Finke coming in. Who knows what will happen. I was just using Shaw as an example. Ibby and Langford are definitely in the mix too.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 09:04 AM   #6790
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Better education at Illinois.
Very true, but I was looking just in terms of basketball.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 09:37 AM   #6791
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Originally Posted by Kramer116 View Post
I generally agree, but a few things I will disagree about. First, these are not Groce's players except the 2013 kids coming in next season. Also, in Groce's words, scholarships are gold. You only get 13 of them. If you say a guy like Ibby is at UI for the education, that is a "waste". I like Ibby a lot, it is a great story, and he is a great kid.

It will be interesting to see how things shake out. We actually have plenty of time for everything to sort out.
I agree with this thought. John Groce was ultimately brought here to win basketball games. He only had 4 or 5 months to fill out the 2013 class with 5 players. This puts him at a disadvantage because a lot guys in that class were either already committed or had formed relationships with other programs that we couldn't overcome. Then the imbalance of classes left Groce with only one scholarship for 2014. This all means that he will finally have a chance to recruit players from 2015 that will see campus roughly 3 years after he was hired. That doesn't make sense to me.

If we take that mindset then we are basically allowing Bruce Weber to run this program for the next 3 years. We would still have his players and still have his recruiting shockwaves from the imbalanced classes. No wonder we are still paying his contract.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 09:47 AM   #6792
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Juco Elgin Cook, who is visiting Gonzaga & Oregon this weekend, will choose final visits btween Illinois, VCU, TCU, South Carolina, Arkansas

http://twitter.com/jerrymeyer247
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 09:51 AM   #6793
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Bruce Weber did not provide scholarships. The University of Illinois provided the scholarships. Groce and the University will do what is honorable and right for these kids. We are not Crean or IU.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 09:58 AM   #6794
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Elgin Cook

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Jerry Meyer ‏@jerrymeyer247 Juco Elgin Cook, who is visiting Gonzaga & Oregon this weekend, will choose final visits btween Illinois, VCU, TCU, South Carolina, Arkansas
From what I can tell, Cook is a 6'6" SF who would have 3 seasons left after redshirting his freshman year.
He's the son of former Milwaukee Buck Alvin Robertson and originally committed to Iowa St, but I guess didn't have the grades to get in?!

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Old Feb 18, 2013, 10:02 AM   #6795
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Originally Posted by Leonardite View Post
Better education at Illinois.
That totally depends on the student.
Having spent time at both U of I and SIU, I personally got a better education at SIU.

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Old Feb 18, 2013, 10:05 AM   #6796
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That totally depends on the student.
Having spent time at both U of I and SIU, I personally got a better education at SIU.
I am sure it is very program dependent.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 10:10 AM   #6797
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I am sure it is very program dependent.
You can get a good education at any school, as long as you make the most of it.

The difference is public perception. Sure, I would have learned the same things in the English and Spanish programs at SIU, but the fact that my diploma has "University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign" across the top carries more weight with future employers. Not fair, but it is what it is.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 10:11 AM   #6798
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"He's tough, he's a really tough kid," Forbes said. "He has a really high skill level. He can play the wing, he can play the four. Depends on how you want to play. His athleticism is off the charts. He can score around the basket, he can score in transition and can shoot 15-20 foot jumpers. He's not a great three point shooter yet, he's becoming one. I think in time he will be."
http://www.wholehogsports.com/news/2...t-hog-recruit/

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Cook creates match-up nightmares because of his ability to drag bigger post players out on the perimeter and take smaller guards & forwards into the post. He is excellent when attacking the rim and crashing the offensive glass. He is an elite athlete who plays well above the rim and has a knack for timing the ball when it comes off the rim.
http://www.jucorecruiting.com/elgin-...and-it-should/
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 10:12 AM   #6799
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I am sure it is very program dependent.
Biggest factor is the individual. What one gets out of school is highly dependent on what one puts into it.

<back on topic> If it comes down to Austin or Ulis, what's Groce gonna do? If Austin's PG skills aren't developing, he's Nunn-light and I'd go w/Ulis.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 10:17 AM   #6800
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Bruce Weber did not provide scholarships. The University of Illinois provided the scholarships. Groce and the University will do what is honorable and right for these kids. We are not Crean or IU.
Sometimes moving on is what's best and right for the kid.
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