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John Groce's Illini Coaching Staff - Dustin Ford, Paris Parham, Jamall Walker

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Old Mar 29, 2012, 07:55 PM   #101
HeartofaChampion
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Quote:
"Thomas said there is a pool of $450,000 for assistants, but that number could change."
No, that number must change, MT, if you want JG to be able to assemble a strong staff. Good find, Seagee.
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Old Mar 29, 2012, 07:59 PM   #102
UofIChE06
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Originally Posted by Seagee View Post
For better or worse, just found another source for the $450k figure, last line of this Trib article that just came out:


http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports...,7280139.story

This makes it sound like there might still be some wiggle room, at least. Klee & Tate didn't mention that it was subject to change, just that it was up to JG how he wanted to split that amount up among his staff.
I mean that makes sense. Obviously the number depends on the people he brings in. People from Ohio won't get top pay right away. If he get top assistants they will get top pay. Top pay for proven top talent. Not for the position you are hired into.
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Old Mar 29, 2012, 08:04 PM   #103
illini80
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I realize players come to play for the HC, but as often as not - its the lead recruiter that builds the relationships. the HC is the deal closer. parents (and "handlers") want their kids to get to the next level. This was one of my complaints with the previous staff, and reflected by what Nunn's dad says - who is developing the talents? because I couldn't tell that anyone was teaching post moves, getting to the rack, defensive technique, and a whole lot of other things.

It just baffles me that KU can reportedly pay their assts $240k each and we are going to try to get by with $150 each? I truly truly hope that figure is wrong and it was $540k maybe. You would think that with the trouble we had getting a HC we would give him every tool possible.

A staff of Boals, Steele, and either JH or Dennis Gates would cover all bases imo. Not sure who Jamal Walker is?? current asst at Ohio maybe?
One more bit of evidence that we are not a top tier program, and not likely to be one soon. But we still can compete and we didn't do that this year.
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Old Mar 29, 2012, 08:04 PM   #104
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It would be a disappointing thing at this point in my fandom to not have a Illini player on the staff. Seriously. JG seems like a great hire and we all know how these coaches from the smaller schools in Ohio do at a big time program. Pretty darn good.
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Old Mar 29, 2012, 08:05 PM   #105
Seagee
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Originally Posted by HeartofaChampion View Post
No, that number must change, MT, if you want JG to be able to assemble a strong staff. Good find, Seagee.
Thanks HOC. Just realized there was a second page to the Trib article:

Quote:
Howard is likely to look elsewhere for opportunities, a source said, noting he was displeased he was not interviewed for the top job.

Two Ohio assistant coaches have strong ties to the Chicago area. Jamall Walker recruited point guard D.J. Cooper out of Seton Academy and Ramon Williams coached on Jerry Wainwright's staff at DePaul.
That is the first I've heard about JH feeling snubbed (albeit attributed only to a "source")...

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports...9.story?page=2
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Old Mar 29, 2012, 08:05 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by OrangeFever View Post
I agree. If that's an accurate number--$450,000 for three assistants--we are in trouble. That's bargain basement and that's the caliber of assistants he'll get. Sometimes, the HC allocates some of his salary for his assistants, but I hope we start JG off that way. Yes, if the numbers we heard offered Smart were accurate, then we're "saving" $1.2-1.35MM annually. There should be enough room to pay assistants adequate salaries, at the bare minimum.
I think it would be silly of Illinois to advertise a high number at this time. Then no matter what quality of assistant is willing to come, he knows what the bar is. I suspect for the right guy, more money would be forthcoming.

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Old Mar 29, 2012, 08:06 PM   #107
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PLEASE don't get cheap with paying the assistants. Without a great staff, we will remain a mediocre B1G team.
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Old Mar 29, 2012, 08:08 PM   #108
IlliniBond
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By limiting the salaries of the asst coaches - in theory - you might be letting Groce have an "out" if recruiting does not go well - by letting Groce say "I could not really bring in the asst coaches to do the job I wanted because of salary constraints".
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Old Mar 29, 2012, 08:14 PM   #109
Buster
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Do or not do not.......there is no try.
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Old Mar 29, 2012, 08:16 PM   #110
Calilama
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Originally Posted by Seagee View Post
Thanks HOC. Just realized there was a second page to the Trib article:



That is the first I've heard about JH feeling snubbed (albeit attributed only to a "source")...

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports...9.story?page=2
If I had a farm I'd bet it jerrance was interviewed....talk about some low hanging fruit
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Old Mar 29, 2012, 08:20 PM   #111
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Do or not do not.......there is no try.
Love a good Yoda reference. I love JH as much as the next guy, but this maybe a great time for JH to break out if he feels it is right. He is comfortable with Self. It would be a great opportunity for his career development. Also, Self has proven he is not an enemy of the program. I just want JG to have the ability to bring in the best assistants he can. I have faith in MT to allow it, he loosened the purse strings for Beckman.
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Old Mar 29, 2012, 08:21 PM   #112
james81
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Originally Posted by DaytonIllini View Post
I think it would be silly of Illinois to advertise a high number at this time. Then no matter what quality of assistant is willing to come, he knows what the bar is. I suspect for the right guy, more money would be forthcoming.
No way Groce would have taken the job without having assurances the $ was there for his assistants. Who really believes Thomas is going to fire Weber, pay him almost $4 mil, and then not pay to put the staff around Groce to make the program successful? $$'s not the issue and everybody knows it--it's about building the right team from the start and everyone can be assured that Thomas and Groce are on the same page.
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Old Mar 29, 2012, 08:22 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by Seagee View Post
For better or worse, just found another source for the $450k figure, last line of this Trib article that just came out:


http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports...,7280139.story

This makes it sound like there might still be some wiggle room, at least. Klee & Tate didn't mention that it was subject to change, just that it was up to JG how he wanted to split that amount up among his staff.
So Thomas appears to be saving money both on the HC salary and his assistants relative to the previous staff. Why low ball at a time when B1G revenues are soaring?

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Old Mar 29, 2012, 08:28 PM   #114
Illiguy
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450k would really be sad and mind boggling considering the approach when hiring Beckman's assistants seemed pretty generous and had the mentality of putting the right support behind a HC taking his first shot in the big leagues. Seems like this is one area you shouldn't be squeezing pennies, especially since you just saved so much on a new HC.
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Old Mar 29, 2012, 08:31 PM   #115
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What's the sense in offering 20+ Million to one candidate and then having to spend a lot less with who we got, then skimping on assistants?

This is a very Guenther-esque move. Penny wise pound foolish.

I hope that # of $450K moves and up and moves fast.
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Old Mar 29, 2012, 08:32 PM   #116
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Jamall Walker

1999_____Graduated from St. Louis University
1999-02__Alton and Kansas City High schools
2002-04__Redlands CC in El Reno, Okla.
2004-06__Ball State
2006-07__St. Louis University
2007-08__Murray State
2008-09__Ohio University
2009-10__University of Arizona (Dir. of Basketball Ops.)
2010-____Ohio University

Positional expertise: PG, guards
Key recruit: DJ Cooper

http://www.ohiobobcats.com/sports/m-..._jamall00.html

Even by college coaching standards, this guy has really moved around.

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Old Mar 29, 2012, 08:37 PM   #117
AEX
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Originally Posted by illini80 View Post
One more bit of evidence that we are not a top tier program, and not likely to be one soon. But we still can compete and we didn't do that this year.
Well, Kansas has won the big 12 conference and/or tournament eight years in a row. I would imagine that the assistants didn't start out at those figures.
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Old Mar 29, 2012, 08:39 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by Groundhogday View Post
So Thomas appears to be saving money both on the HC salary and his assistants relative to the previous staff. Why low ball at a time when B1G revenues are soaring?
Possibilities:

(1) This number is inaccurate.
(2) Illinois is ultra-cheap.
(3) Thomas doesn't believe in assistants being important.
(4) Major donors have expressed so much discontent with the hiring process that he has to be frugal.

2 is obviously true.
3 is obviously untrue.
1 is probably true.
4 could be true but with BTN revenue pouring in, I doubt that the donors are a big issue.

So I am guessing that we are looking at an inaccurate report from a source.

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Old Mar 29, 2012, 08:40 PM   #119
ILLcoach
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Originally Posted by IlliniTilDeath View Post
Saying black kids always relate well to black coaches is like saying all white athletes relate well to white coaches. I'm saying that the relationship are based on intrinsic qualities and not race.
Comment without factual research! Uhhh...probably not always, but 99.65 % of the time. African Americans (I guess I'll be the one that is PC on here) will always feel more comfortable and relate more to African American coaches. I speak of experience as both a player and a coach now. From the player perspective it's a cultural relation. I'm the Hip Hop coach around town. I listen to Jay Z, (hate Lil' Wayne=overated), Eminem, J Cole, Red Cafe, ETC. I'll start a best MC arguement in the locker room. Other common intrests too i.e food, clothes, movies, comedy = Kevin Hart (Alright,Alright,Alrriigghhhtt! Gonna learn today, I walk into practice yelling this and the kids crack up, they love it!) Most Caucasion coaches I know and have been around are rigid, nerdy/lame, kinda nervous around the brothas, and outta touch. Again, factual references from my 25 years as a former standout player and current coach. I'd go so far as to say my kids I coach who aren't minority are more comfortable around me because of personality,swag, and age. That's not to say there aren't coaches of other races that fit the description above.I just haven't come across them in the Rock Island,Peoria, Rockford, and Dekalb areas.
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Old Mar 29, 2012, 08:41 PM   #120
Mark Seifert
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Originally Posted by cjcastan View Post
What's the sense in offering 20+ Million to one candidate and then having to spend a lot less with who we got, then skimping on assistants?

This is a very Guenther-esque move. Penny wise pound foolish.

I hope that # of $450K moves and up and moves fast.
The media's perception of this process has been off base every step of the way. I have complete confidence it is off base on this point as well.

Let's see what happens over the next week.
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Old Mar 29, 2012, 08:43 PM   #121
saltygrapes
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Originally Posted by DaytonIllini View Post
Possibilities:

(1) This number is inaccurate.
(2) Illinois is ultra-cheap.
(3) Thomas doesn't believe in assistants being important.
(4) Major donors have expressed so much discontent with the hiring process that he has to be frugal.

2 is obviously true.
3 is obviously untrue.
1 is probably true.
4 could be true but with BTN revenue pouring in, I doubt that the donors are a big issue.

So I am guessing that we are looking at an inaccurate report from a source.
Thomas will increase that number if the assistants being hired warrant it. That means Gates. Illinois will give Gates a very nice offer and money won't be an obstacle there.

Furthermore if Groce wants to bring 1-2 Ohio guys with him, it makes no sense to pay them $150k starting off. Bring in a big name like Gates and let the other guys earn their raises--they're already going to be making a lot more money working here than at Ohio.

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Old Mar 29, 2012, 08:43 PM   #122
AEX
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Originally Posted by james81 View Post
No way Groce would have taken the job without having assurances the $ was there for his assistants. Who really believes Thomas is going to fire Weber, pay him almost $4 mil, and then not pay to put the staff around Groce to make the program successful?
There's been a lot of misinformation surrounding this whole job search. While I think the initial figure for the assistants might accurately reflect an initial figure, I just can't believe that is the cap.

Edit: looks like Mark and Saltygrapes beat me to this point.
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Old Mar 29, 2012, 08:43 PM   #123
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Ramon Williams

1990_____Graduated from VMI (economics)
1992-02__VMI (asst, assoc)
2002-05__Richmond
2005-09__DePaul
2009-____Ohio University

Positional expertise: Guards
Recruiting area: VA?

http://www.ohiobobcats.com/sports/m-...s_ramon00.html

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Old Mar 29, 2012, 08:45 PM   #124
FinalFour88
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Originally Posted by Mark Seifert View Post
The media's perception of this process has been off base every step of the way. I have complete confidence it is off base on this point as well.

Let's see what happens over the next week.
Completely agree. "Sources" mean nothing to me anymore.
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Old Mar 29, 2012, 08:45 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by Seagee View Post
On WDWS a couple hours ago I think Klee or Tate said that MT has allocated $450,000 in Assistant Salary $$ for Groce to divvy up among his coaching staff as he sees fit.

Given that JH is currently making $180,000, if he stayed here at the same salary that would then leave $270,000 for the other two Assistants (or $135,000 each).
If this is true, it is really unfortunate. I have seen prior posts indicating that "big time" college bball programs pay their assistants $200-240k (Kansas comes to mind) and I cannot see why we would go cheap in the assistants' salaries when we just hired Groce for WAY less than what was alledgedly offered to SS and BS.

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