Taking attendance

[Dan]

3-9

That, right there, destroyed this fanbase. Destroyed. Bought in after 1994, were duped. Bought in after 2001, were duped. Bought in one last time after 2007 and hung on through 2009... duped. On a biblical scale.

What you're seeing now is simply the radiation still emanating from the 2009 meltdown. I said to a friend after we lost to Fresno State but Zook was retained that it would be five years before the fans would return. Fool me once was 1995. Fool me twice was 2002. ARE YOU KIDDIN' ME? was 2008/09.

http://alioneye.com/2012/09/20/taking-attendance/

[illinicb]

Robert hits it on the head:

Until we prove that we can sustain success, the fans will remain forever skeptical.

It really is that simple. It probably gets down to your definition of success because going to a bowl every year with a 6-6 record won't get the fans excited.

Also, it would be good to get some offensive excitement. Despite the nice passing numbers last week, it still seemed like a very pedestrian offense. We weren't watching Dave Wilson or Tony Eason out there and while it is all about winning, if you can somehow get a little sizzle with your steak, that wouldn't be all bad.

There just isn't a buzz around the program right now.

[Dan]

Couple thoughts about the alioneye post now that I finally read it-

# Robert shoulda just started with 2007 then focused on the disappointment/disaster of 2008-2009. What's the point of giving a pre-Zook historical overview of attendance when you're not going to research the numbers? There's a lot of factors to discuss when talking Illini football attendance, but ultimately actual attendance numbers should be presented at some point.

# Robert should never, ever, ever, write about a game -- especially one he attended -- where he's "too lazy to research" the final score. In 1991 it was Illinois 51, Houston 10. Yikes. Are you or are you not our Illini football blogger?

# But yes, this sums it up from the post- "So what has happened with Illini attendance? We've been cheated on."

[illynifan34]

Originally Posted by Dan

Couple thoughts about the alioneye post now that I finally read it-

# Robert shoulda just started with 2007 then focused on the disappointment/disaster of 2008-2009. What's the point of giving a pre-Zook historical overview of attendance when you're not going to research the numbers? There's a lot of factors to discuss when talking Illini football attendance, but ultimately actual attendance numbers should be presented at some point.

# Robert should never, ever, ever, write about a game -- especially one he attended -- where he's "too lazy to research" the final score. In 1991 it was Illinois 51, Houston 10. Yikes. Are you or are you not our Illini football blogger?

# But yes, this sums it up from the post- "So what has happened with Illini attendance? We've been cheated on."

You know he's going to read this and his next post will be full of researched numbers now.

[AHSIllini32]

Originally Posted by Dan

Couple thoughts about the alioneye post now that I finally read it-

# Robert shoulda just started with 2007 then focused on the disappointment/disaster of 2008-2009. What's the point of giving a pre-Zook historical overview of attendance when you're not going to research the numbers? There's a lot of factors to discuss when talking Illini football attendance, but ultimately actual attendance numbers should be presented at some point.

# Robert should never, ever, ever, write about a game -- especially one he attended -- where he's "too lazy to research" the final score. In 1991 it was Illinois 51, Houston 10. Yikes. Are you or are you not our Illini football blogger?

# But yes, this sums it up from the post- "So what has happened with Illini attendance? We've been cheated on."

Think you're being a little too critical of Robert here Dan. I think the overriding point of looking at those seasons and games (of which I'm pretty sure Robert attended as a student and paid close attention to) is that there was a spike in success followed by guy punch after gut punch.

And he was only off on that score by 7 points. Again, the score is irrelevant really.

[Thacher_H_Guild]

Robert might have gotten a few of the details wrong, but I think he hit the nail on the head with the gist of what happened. It's basically irrational at this point to be "all-in" with Illinois football. (It's a good thing there are still irrational people out there.)

And for the record, the first time I felt REALLY cheated by Illinois football was when I made a big effort to see them in Houston in 1992. I expected a closer game than the 1991 game, but a 31-13 loss to a bad Houston team? That was disappointing.

[Dan]

Couple thoughts about Illinois' football attendance after 2 games this season-

# This season's attendance after two games is ahead of last season's attendance after 2 games. 2012: 44,405, 2011: 43,683.

# Indiana's attendance (45,034) is ahead of Illinois' so far. Good for them, but it needs to be acknowledged that IU has provided a bunch of complimentary & $5 tickets link.

# Everyone saw this coming since December. Western Michigan & Charleston Southern? Uh yeah, not going to be big crowds.

# Breaking news- Illinois probably won't have a sellout this season. We have a base of 33,000 season tickets, and only 1 appealing opponent in Penn State. The PSU game is in Sept, so I don't think there's enough time to build up the necessary hype to get that sold out.

# I'm going to repeat my rant on Loren Tate. He's been waiting since New Year's Eve to unload this blatantly false cheap shot- "This marks two of the worst September turnouts since the late 1960s." link. When you're going to mix-and-match estimates vs actual numbers, not mention a specific year, not mention Hurricane Isaac, then your statement is a big ol' pile of landfill.

[IlliniOllie]

Originally Posted by AHSIllini32

Think you're being a little too critical of Robert here Dan. I think the overriding point of looking at those seasons and games (of which I'm pretty sure Robert attended as a student and paid close attention to) is that there was a spike in success followed by guy punch after gut punch.

And he was only off on that score by 7 points. Again, the score is irrelevant really.

Robert provides better analysis of our football program than any of the reporters whose job it is to cover these things full-time. I'll give him a pass if he goes by memory on a final score from 1991.

[Thacher_H_Guild]

Originally Posted by Dan

# This season's attendance after two games is ahead of last season's attendance after 2 games. 2012: 44,405, 2011: 43,683.

Don't forget that Indiana played 2 in-state opponents. The fans Indiana State and Ball State brought to the game probably more than explain the difference.

I think I saw 4 Charleston Southern fans.

[Dan]

Originally Posted by AHSIllini32

Think you're being a little too critical of Robert here Dan.

Robert's point about the attendance in the here and now was solid, talking about the disaster of 2009. Attendance under Zook bottomed-out in 2006 (43k), then exploded to near-capacity in smallified under-construction MS in 2007 (54k), peaked in 2008 (61k), began to tip in 2009 (59k), and has fallen since - 2010 (54k), 2011 (49k). Just wanted to see the numbers.

Originally Posted by Thacher_H_Guild

I expected a closer game than the 1991 game, but a 31-13 loss to a bad Houston team? That was disappointing.

That game was terrible. Houston threw a bomb for a TD on the last play of the game.

[Illini125]

Originally Posted by Thacher_H_Guild

I think I saw 4 Charleston Southern fans.

I saw two guys with shirts that said, "Fear the Buccaneers!" It was kind of sad. But they both had Alabama hats on. I guess you're allowed to have a second team when your first one is an FCS team on a 15 game losing streak.

Also, while we're talking about Indiana's early season numbers, look at their attendences.

2011 Week 1 Ball State - 40,224
2011 Week 2 Virginia - 41,549
2011 Week 3 SC State - 41,203

2012 Week 1 Indiana State - 41,882
2012 Week 3 Ball State - 48,186

As mentioned before, it's pretty obvious there was some sort of ticket give away going on. No way they added 7,000 naturally when you look at their averages. Especially comparing a home opener vs a week 3 game.

[Thacher_H_Guild]

Illinois should do some aggressive promotions for the Penn State game. How about...anybody who buys a single game ticket for that game starting now, gets a free one of these?

[quhawks12]

Originally Posted by Illini125

2012 Week 3 Ball State - 48,186

I work with a few Ball St grads here in Indy. And a couple of my neighbors are as well. A few went to the game in Bloomington last week and said over half the fans were Ball St. people. All wanted to rub in the fact that this was their 3rd win a row against IU.

[Ransom Stoddard]

THG--you can have the hat, I'll take the rest.

I live 600 miles away, and I would LOVE to be confident enough of having a great time at a game to justify the time and expense to come to at least 1 per year--but it's a crap shoot as to if that good time would happen or not. I was in the ATL airport this past Sunday and it was mobbed with out of town fans from Auburn, Georgia, Clemson, Bama, and Georgia Tech, all who happened to have home games on Saturday. These programs have fans willing to travel to go see their teams because (for the most part) they can expect to enjoy themselves on game day. Those programs--even if they don't contend--have rabid fans and are a destination.

We need to go to there.

[HsvIllini]

Originally Posted by Ransom Stoddard

THG--you can have the hat, I'll take the rest.

I live 600 miles away, and I would LOVE to be confident enough of having a great time at a game to justify the time and expense to come to at least 1 per year--but it's a crap shoot as to if that good time would happen or not. I was in the ATL airport this past Sunday and it was mobbed with out of town fans from Auburn, Georgia, Clemson, Bama, and Georgia Tech, all who happened to have home games on Saturday. These programs have fans willing to travel to go see their teams because (for the most part) they can expect to enjoy themselves on game day. Those programs--even if they don't contend--have rabid fans and are a destination.

We need to go to there.

I couldn't agree more about the rabid fan base. I live in AL now and went to my first Bama game last year. They were playing East Texas or something like that, yet you would've thought it was the national championship game. It was impressive.

[Illini125]

Originally Posted by Ransom Stoddard

THG--you can have the hat, I'll take the rest.

I live 600 miles away, and I would LOVE to be confident enough of having a great time at a game to justify the time and expense to come to at least 1 per year--but it's a crap shoot as to if that good time would happen or not. I was in the ATL airport this past Sunday and it was mobbed with out of town fans from Auburn, Georgia, Clemson, Bama, and Georgia Tech, all who happened to have home games on Saturday. These programs have fans willing to travel to go see their teams because (for the most part) they can expect to enjoy themselves on game day. Those programs--even if they don't contend--have rabid fans and are a destination.

We need to go to there.

Our attendance this year is actually better than GT. They had 41,678 against Presbyterian, and 44,225 against Virginia.

But your point still remains regarding the other teams. Fans like winning, they're more willing to come to see their team win. Top tier schools like Alabama can handle a down season when it comes to attendance. Middle-ish schools like Illinois can't.

[Clemens]

Originally Posted by Thacher_H_Guild

Illinois should do some aggressive promotions for the Penn State game. How about...anybody who buys a single game ticket for that game starting now, gets a free one of these?

The girl or the hat?

[Sure Shot]

Originally Posted by HsvIllini

I couldn't agree more about the rabid fan base. I live in AL now and went to my first Bama game last year. They were playing East Texas or something like that, yet you would've thought it was the national championship game. It was impressive.

Well, Bama is a national championship team, that's a bit different. I have every confidence that if we are genuinely in contention for a national championship that our bandwagon will overflow.

But the thing that's important to note is that there's no real difference between a Bama-East Texas (that's not a real school, but whatever) and an Illinois-Charleston Southern game. They are both totally non-competitive affairs that aren't really relevant in the storyline of those teams seasons. So why do people show up? Because it's fun just to go to the game. It's part of the culture of the school and the fanbase. THAT'S what I want to see happen at Illinois. That's about more than just whether you got kicked in the d*ck by a disappointing team last year.

Win and they'll come, make it fun and they'll stay.

[HsvIllini]

Originally Posted by Sure Shot

Well, Bama is a national championship team, that's a bit different. I have every confidence that if we are genuinely in contention for a national championship that our bandwagon will overflow.

But the thing that's important to note is that there's no real difference between a Bama-East Texas (that's not a real school, but whatever) and an Illinois-Charleston Southern game. They are both totally non-competitive affairs that aren't really relevant in the storyline of those teams seasons. So why do people show up? Because it's fun just to go to the game. It's part of the culture of the school and the fanbase. THAT'S what I want to see happen at Illinois. That's about more than just whether you got kicked in the d*ck by a disappointing team last year.

Win and they'll come, make it fun and they'll stay.

Exactly!

[Thacher_H_Guild]

Originally Posted by Clemens

The girl or the hat?

I was thinking the vulture hat, but whatever gets people back to the stadium.

[Robert ALE]

Originally Posted by Dan

# Robert should never, ever, ever, write about a game -- especially one he attended -- where he's "too lazy to research" the final score. In 1991 it was Illinois 51, Houston 10. Yikes. Are you or are you not our Illini football blogger?

Robert will write about lots of games he's too lazy to research. He (no joke) fell asleep at his desk while writing that post. Lazy Robert is lazy. And Lazy Robert doesn't want to let fancy "statistics" and "research" get in the way of a good old fashioned Lou-and-the-Rons bash.

Besides, the point of the entire post was to avoid the what and tell you why.

[KBLEE]

Originally Posted by Robert ALE

Robert will write about lots of games he's too lazy to research. He (no joke) fell asleep at his desk while writing that post. Lazy Robert is lazy. And Lazy Robert doesn't want to let fancy "statistics" and "research" get in the way of a good old fashioned Lou-and-the-Rons bash.

Besides, the point of the entire post was to avoid the what and tell you why.

[Ransom Stoddard]

Originally Posted by Robert ALE

Robert will write about lots of games he's too lazy to research. He (no joke) fell asleep at his desk while writing that post. Lazy Robert is lazy. And Lazy Robert doesn't want to let fancy "statistics" and "research" get in the way of a good old fashioned Lou-and-the-Rons bash.

Besides, the point of the entire post was to avoid the what and tell you why.

I love your posts, Bob. Keep it up!

[Dan]

Originally Posted by Robert ALE

Robert will write about lots of games he's too lazy to research. He (no joke) fell asleep at his desk while writing that post. Lazy Robert is lazy. And Lazy Robert doesn't want to let fancy "statistics" and "research" get in the way of a good old fashioned Lou-and-the-Rons bash.

Besides, the point of the entire post was to avoid the what and tell you why.

Pardon for being so crazed this morning. I need to relax a bit, football's supposed to be fun

[MTMinded]

Originally Posted by Robert ALE

Robert will write about lots of games he's too lazy to research. He (no joke) fell asleep at his desk while writing that post. Lazy Robert is lazy. And Lazy Robert doesn't want to let fancy "statistics" and "research" get in the way of a good old fashioned Lou-and-the-Rons bash.

Besides, the point of the entire post was to avoid the what and tell you why.

I actually enjoyed the Robert / Dan back and forth. I only read two internet sites regarding the Illini -> Loyalty and ALE.

Keep up the good work!