9/25 News and Notes

[Groundhogday]

Illini defense was to be team's strength but struggling; blitzes missing, lineman says

"Last year we blitzed a lot more with our linebackers and this year, you know, they're sitting back, and they've got to read," Spence said. "We were able to bring pressure form just about anywhere, from the corners. ... We just brought it from a lot of different angles. That's what we were used to."

Players have asked the defensive coaches to consider blitzing more, he said.

"I mean, we ask, but at the end of the day they hold the power. All we can do is go out and do what they tell us to do," he said.

AP: David Mercer

One correction on this article. Mercer states that most of the key players are back from last year's defensive unit. Those who are not back: Mercilus, Ian Thomas, Henry, Tavon Wilson, Sanni and Hull (6 out of 11). Two of those guys were high NFL draft picks.

With the Illini: Penn State still mad at Beckman

Beckman said he had no regrets about the all-out assault on Penn State’s roster in late July, when eight Illini coaches flew to State College, Pa., to recruit any players who were interested in leaving after the NCAA hit the Nittany Lions with crippling sanctions in the wake of the Jerry Sandusky sexual-abuse scandal.

But no matter how hard Beckman tries, the discussion hasn’t come to an end among Penn State coaches, players and media, even if the only player to transfer to Illinois was redshirt freshman Ryan Nowicki, a three-star tackle who is no better than third string on the Illini depth chart.

Supinie

Makes perfect sense for O'Brien to use this as bulletin board material. I don't think he singled out Illinois by chance. This is a great opportunity for PSU to try to grab a win to open the B1G season.

Healthy Scheelhaase has leg up

Tackle Akeem Spence, analyzing the defensive problems, said Monday: “I’m not pointing fingers, but we’ve had some mistakes in the secondary...

“If their guys are upset (about Nowicki), then they’re upset. They still have to line up and play football. We’re the same guys we were last season, and we just have to prove it when the lights come on Saturday. We’re the same guys.”

Spence called the system “pretty much the same up front but different in the secondary ... some of the guys are worried about making mistakes. JB (Jonathan Brown) was out of the box a lot on receivers. We don’t blitz like we used to with our linebackers. Last year we could bring pressure from anywhere, and that’s what we got used to for two years. This is more conservative, but if we execute it properly it will work...

Tate

It can be really hard for a new coordinator to hold a unit together if he is asking them to do something different and it isn't successful. It is a bit worrisome that the players are openly questioning the defensive game plans.

[Groundhogday]

For Illini defense, old habits die hard

Spence admitted the expectations are different under defensive coordinator Tim Banks than they were under former coordinator Vic Koenning.

“At the back end (of the secondary) those guys are doing a lot of different things, which is hard for them. It’s a tough job,” he said. “Guys get a little frustrated when they are not playing what they’re used to playing. It’s kind of different.

Tupper

[Sly]

Great summary GHD. It's going to be a major test for Beckman to see if he can keeps these guys together through all of this.

You can definitely tell the guys on the D miss Koenning, both as a coach and as a person. Wish he would have stuck around.

[Orangetool]

the two biggest losses for this team this year...

Coach Vic
Coach Lou

[Groundhogday]

Originally Posted by Orangetool

the two biggest losses for this team this year...

Coach Vic
Coach Lou

I agree. But don't forget about Coaches West (LB/co-DC at ASU) and Gillhammer (secondary coach for the Colts). Our current defensive staff is undoubtedly much better on the recruiting trail, but the previous staff could really scheme and teach. Unfortunately, we now have the worst of both worlds: a severe lack of quality depth due to poor recruiting from the previous defensive staff and a defensive coaching staff that can't compare to the previous group in coaching acumen.

[Dan]

Just the Stats: Penn State at Illinois

The final note here is that Illinois has struggled mightily the last two weeks defending pass-heavy, "fast" offenses. My "fast" I mean exactly the offense Penn State has started to run with Bill O'Brien at the controls.

http://www.blackshoediaries.com/2012...te-at-illinois

[AHSIllini32]

I understand these guys are in a new scheme but shouldn't they just shut up and try to get better in the new scheme? They're talking about guys not doing their jobs, well then instead of saying what you did last year how about we do our jobs in this scheme.

[Groundhogday]

Originally Posted by AHSIllini32

I understand these guys are in a new scheme but shouldn't they just shut up and try to get better in the new scheme? They're talking about guys not doing their jobs, well then instead of saying what you did last year how about we do our jobs in this scheme.

While I accept that the defensive coaches are in a very difficult position, trying to replace a very successful and loved group of coaches, they need to win over the returning players. It doesn't sound like that has really happened.

[Groundhogday]

F/+ Defensive rankings since 2007

Tim Banks
2007__116 (CMU)
2008__110 (CMU)
2009___48 (CMU
2010___82 (Cincy)
2011___41 (Cincy)

Illinois
2007___40
2008___57
2009___96
2010___22
2011___09

At CMU and Cincy, Banks' defenses had a lot of injuries and it took a year or two to come together. It sure looks like that might be what happens at Illinois. But even at best, Banks has never had a defense comparable to what VK had at Clemson and Illinois. That doesn't mean Banks can't do it with the right talent, just that he has never been there before.

[Sly]

Originally Posted by Groundhogday

While I accept that the defensive coaches are in a very difficult position, trying to replace a very successful and loved group of coaches, they need to win over the returning players. It doesn't sound like that has really happened.

But can they do that in a week? This week is HUGE for the coaching staff IMO. Our next 2 games are @Wiscy and @Mich. 2 games we won't win with these injuries and lack of depth.

[illynifan34]

Originally Posted by Groundhogday

F/+ Defensive rankings since 2007

Tim Banks
2007__116 (CMU)
2008__110 (CMU)
2009___48 (CMU
2010___82 (Cincy)
2011___41 (Cincy)

Illinois
2007___40
2008___57
2009___96
2010___22
2011___09

At CMU and Cincy, Banks' defenses had a lot of injuries and it took a year or two to come together. It sure looks like that might be what happens at Illinois. But even at best, Banks has never had a defense comparable to what VK had at Clemson and Illinois. That doesn't mean Banks can't do it with the right talent, just that he has never been there before.

So it looks like he needs a year or two to pull things together, maybe to either get buy in from the players, for them to learn the system or for him to get his type of players in place. I guess we all knew there would be learning curves on offense, but didn't expect as much on defense. Oh well, Zook left us in a bad place with no depth really anywhere, it will take some time to rebuild it.

[Groundhogday]

Originally Posted by illynifan34

So it looks like he needs a year or two to pull things together, maybe to either get buy in from the players, for them to learn the system or for him to get his type of players in place. I guess we all knew there would be learning curves on offense, but didn't expect as much on defense. Oh well, Zook left us in a bad place with no depth really anywhere, it will take some time to rebuild it.

I think the take home is that when his defenses were bad, they were REALLY bad. And when they were good, they were NOT top 25. From a Cincy blog:

While Banks by the numbers appeared to do a decent job in the 2011 season, there were major flaws in how he ran his schemes. All too often the Bearcats would drop into a shell defense in which UC would rely on pressure from their defensive line, dropping 7 or 8 into a deep zone. It also seemed that when a certain defense stopped working, the staff wouldn’t make the necessary changes to try and find what would work (i.e. blitz more/less, bring strongside/weakside pressure, confuse the QB with zone blitzes, etc.). Keep in mind, while John Jancek is listed as the other co-defensive coordinator, Banks called the plays during games and anything that happened out there in those 60 minutes are almost entirely on him. Also, even though his defenses some years were pretty good (2011, 2009 namely), they were giant sieves against the pass:

2011: 20.3 ppg (20th) – 261 passing yards per game (99th)
2010: 28.0 ppg (68th) – 234 passing yards per game (88th)
2009: 18.9 ppg (19th) – 221 passing yards per game (66th)
2008: 30.2 ppg (90th) – 287 passing yards per game (119th)
2007: 36.9 ppg (110th) – 303 passing yards per game (118th)

Against the pass, Banks’ defenses since 2007 ranked 99th, 88th, 66th, 119th, and 118th nationally.

http://bearcatsnation.com/2012/01/15...g-to-illinois/

Hmmm..... Sure sounds familiar.

[Buster]

With the disconnect with the current scheme/coach, would Coach Beckman consider cutting his losses and consider brining in a new DC next year?

[Groundhogday]

Originally Posted by Buster

With the disconnect with the current scheme/coach, would Coach Beckman consider cutting his losses and consider brining in a new DC next year?

I doubt it. From what I've seen, Beckman is pretty loyal to his coaches.

[Dan]

Check The Tape - Louisiana Tech

Stay with me.

This wasn't as bad as I thought.

http://alioneye.com/2012/09/25/check...ouisiana-tech/

[AHSIllini32]

Originally Posted by Groundhogday

I doubt it. From what I've seen, Beckman is pretty loyal to his coaches.

I would agree but I wonder if he might start putting more input into the defensive play calling. Although all we heard from TB during the off-season was that he didn't like to meddle which is what we had with Zook.

Originally Posted by Groundhogday

F/+ Defensive rankings since 2007

Tim Banks
2007__116 (CMU)
2008__110 (CMU)
2009___48 (CMU
2010___82 (Cincy)
2011___41 (Cincy)

Illinois
2007___40
2008___57
2009___96
2010___22
2011___09

At CMU and Cincy, Banks' defenses had a lot of injuries and it took a year or two to come together. It sure looks like that might be what happens at Illinois. But even at best, Banks has never had a defense comparable to what VK had at Clemson and Illinois. That doesn't mean Banks can't do it with the right talent, just that he has never been there before.

Wouldn't it be better to show VK's F+ rankings for those 5 years? Or for his last 5 years as a DC anyways? Also, couldn't it be that Banks has never had the talent available that VK did so his rankings could suffer from that? I'm not saying that's the only reason they're worse as VK is clearly a good DC but just a thought.

Originally Posted by Groundhogday

While I accept that the defensive coaches are in a very difficult position, trying to replace a very successful and loved group of coaches, they need to win over the returning players. It doesn't sound like that has really happened.

And I agree which is unfortunate but it sounds like the guys aren't listening to their coaches and are still trying to do what the previous coaching staff wanted them to do. Maybe they'll get their wish and we will blitz more.

Also, I forgot to quote the post from you from that Cinci blog that showed ppg and then passing yards/game. Quite frankly, I don't care how many yards we give up if we are only allowing 20 ppg.

[Groundhogday]

Originally Posted by AHSIllini32

Wouldn't it be better to show VK's F+ rankings for those 5 years? Or for his last 5 years as a DC anyways? Also, couldn't it be that Banks has never had the talent available that VK did so his rankings could suffer from that? I'm not saying that's the only reason they're worse as VK is clearly a good DC but just a thought.

VK's F/+ stats are very, very good. I put up the Illinois stats so we had a frame of reference for Banks. Yes, VK has always had better talent than Banks, including Illinois 2011 vs. Illinois 2012.

Originally Posted by AHSIllini32

Also, I forgot to quote the post from you from that Cinci blog that showed ppg and then passing yards/game. Quite frankly, I don't care how many yards we give up if we are only allowing 20 ppg.

When Banks has good, experienced talent at most positions, his defense can be pretty good (Illinois in 2007 is a good comparison). When he doesn't have that talent and/or experience, his defenses implode (Illinois, 2009). This is where having a good coordinator who can mask weaknesses and confuse offenses really helps.

[AHSIllini32]

Originally Posted by Groundhogday

VK's F/+ stats are very, very good. I put up the Illinois stats so we had a frame of reference for Banks. Yes, VK has always had better talent than Banks, including Illinois 2011 vs. Illinois 2012.


When Banks has good, experienced talent at most positions, his defense can be pretty good (Illinois in 2007 is a good comparison). When he doesn't have that talent and/or experience, his defenses implode (Illinois, 2009). This is where having a good coordinator who can mask weaknesses and confuse offenses really helps.

Which is why I think when we get our offense where we want it we will see some entertaining 45-42 shootouts in memorial stadium instead of the 17-14 games. In the end, just win games. That's all I want. I don't care if it's because of a stellar offense, suffocating, defense, or both. Unfortunately, as we go through and assemble the pieces we need to run these schemes we are struggling on both fronts which is why a bowl game would be huge.

I just hate that this whole VK thing has been talked about so much and that now it appears as though it may be becoming a distraction with the players. I just want us to move on and figure out how to get THIS defense to work with THESE coaches and THESE schemes. I dunno, maybe I'm being to naive to the situation.

[Groundhogday]

Originally Posted by AHSIllini32

I just hate that this whole VK thing has been talked about so much and that now it appears as though it may be becoming a distraction with the players. I just want us to move on and figure out how to get THIS defense to work with THESE coaches and THESE schemes. I dunno, maybe I'm being to naive to the situation.

This is probably inevitable. We lost four of our top 6 DBs from last year: T. Wilson, Henry, Sanni, and Hull. We don't have any many guys capable of stepping up. There is no way the defense will be as good. Players who had a lot of success under VK are going to be resistant to change regardless of the situation, and doubly so when the defense isn't as good.

I just hope this doesn't really spiral down into a disaster. The defense needs to have some success this week.

[GilThorpe]

I was also seeing more than a normal amount of arm tackles that the rb's from LaTech ran right through. I have no idea what it takes to get some of these guys to stick a hit and wrap, but I am not seeing enough of it.

[GilThorpe]

Originally Posted by AHSIllini32

Which is why I think when we get our offense where we want it we will see some entertaining 45-42 shootouts in memorial stadium instead of the 17-14 games.

there is no way in conference play , this year and probably not next year, that we will have an offense capable of hanging 42 on anyone.

I see our offense as scoring about 30 points tops. Our D must be good enough to hold the other guys to 21 or we wont win many at all.

I just dont see NS or ROT as the guy that can all of a sudden figure it out and lead a scoring machine type offense. We can win games, but they will be with scoring drives we had last Saturday night : Using JF, DY, Lankford and lets hope soon, Davis. We need our D to figure it out real soon.

If we cant hold PSU to 21, it will indeed be a tough year.

[AHSIllini32]

Originally Posted by GilThorpe

there is no way in conference play , this year and probably not next year, that we will have an offense capable of hanging 42 on anyone.

I see our offense as scoring about 30 points tops. Our D must be good enough to hold the other guys to 21 or we wont win many at all.

I just dont see NS or ROT as the guy that can all of a sudden figure it out and lead a scoring machine type offense. We can win games, but they will be with scoring drives we had last Saturday night : Using JF, DY, Lankford and lets hope soon, Davis. We need our D to figure it out real soon.

If we cant hold PSU to 21, it will indeed be a tough year.

I wasn't saying this year or next year. I'm saying in the future.

[Lnorwood1981]

Originally Posted by AHSIllini32

I would agree but I wonder if he might start putting more input into the defensive play calling. Although all we heard from TB during the off-season was that he didn't like to meddle which is what we had with Zook.



Wouldn't it be better to show VK's F+ rankings for those 5 years? Or for his last 5 years as a DC anyways? Also, couldn't it be that Banks has never had the talent available that VK did so his rankings could suffer from that? I'm not saying that's the only reason they're worse as VK is clearly a good DC but just a thought.



And I agree which is unfortunate but it sounds like the guys aren't listening to their coaches and are still trying to do what the previous coaching staff wanted them to do. Maybe they'll get their wish and we will blitz more.

Also, I forgot to quote the post from you from that Cinci blog that showed ppg and then passing yards/game. Quite frankly, I don't care how many yards we give up if we are only allowing 20 ppg.

Been lurking and I generally read for entertainment, but it's so bothersome to keep hearing about VK and the comparisons to Banks. First, VK decided to leave, he had a choice. Why are we giving him so much love and wanting him back when HE made the choice to leave. Second, I keep reading and seeing all these quotes about how great of a coach he was and he had the top defense in the country and how great his statistics were compared to Banks. Did he win championships with his great top defense? The wins and losses are what matters right? You can post stats all day, but here's a stat that we need to keep in mind. VK has been a DC for the past 10 years and to my knowledge never won championships. Banks had been a DC for 5 years and won 3 conference championships (2 at CMU and 1 at Cincinnati). So, for me, I want to see someone that will put the defense in positions that will help us win championships (and I don't care how he does it or what his stats are) and clearly, Banks has done that, so I assume he was hired with the expectation that he will do that here.

[Dan]

[PSU coach] O'Brien: Is he bothered that a Big Ten team recruited his players? "It takes a lot to bother me."

O'Brien took 3 straight Qs on Illinois recruiting PSU players and didn't give any specific answer or any bulletin-board type stuff.

http://twitter.com/CoryGiger

[GilThorpe]

Originally Posted by AHSIllini32

I wasn't saying this year or next year. I'm saying in the future.

okay, I thought you were hoping this year our D would get bailed out by more offense on our side

even in the future, Defense has been what wins games in the B1G. A prolific offense is fun to watch and will win you some games, but without a D that can usually hold the other guys to 21 or less, you wont be playing for a conference championship. There are simply too many games played when adverse weather will limit scoring.

A 2-8 campaign in the B1G wont be the end of the world, but TB really needs to figure out the exact reasons, besides injuries, that our D is just getting smoked. Performances like we have had will lead to an 0-8 campaign in the league, and that makes for a very awkward off season. Perhaps our team is as bad as we were the last half of the season last year , and it simply is showing itself again. If that is the case, we are in deep rebuilding mode.