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Conference Realignment Thread (Maryland & Rutgers join the Big Ten conference)

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Old Nov 17, 2012, 10:57 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by TheFightingestIllini View Post
Nothing would bring Jim Delany greater pleasure than bringing his alma mater, UNC into the conference. I believe that's his endgame.
I think you are right. The "grand" plan may be to get UNC, and getting UMD is a needed step towards that.
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 10:59 PM   #102
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I think the idea is that NY fans would start to care more about Rutgers if Penn State, Nebraska, Ohio State and Michigan were regularly playing games in New Jersey.
That probably is the idea. I wonder if Chicago fans would care about UIUC if Penn State, Nebraska, Ohio State and Michigan were regularly playing games in Illinois?

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Old Nov 17, 2012, 11:22 PM   #103
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Maybe in the minority but I'm actually kind of excited about this.

I don't know why exactly, but to me it just sounds fun. Some new markets(though it's debatable how big/impactful they are). Would be interesting to see a Huskers Terrapins showdown every year to bring two markets together that don't really get a lot of exposure to each other.

It really doesn't seem likely to happen though, as Maryland is having financial trouble. Honestly UConn or Louisville would be a bigger catch.
Couldn't disagree more.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 12:49 AM   #104
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The likelihood of this story being true seems about 0.001%. I only give it credence because no one appears to be flat out denying it.

If this is about money, for the conference to break even, two additional schools would have to cause revenues to increase 15.4%, since the split would go from 13 to 15. Would games featuring Rutgers and Maryland cause such a huge ratings increase in DC and NYC (or nationally) that network and bowl executives will increase the entire financial package over 15%? I'm pretty confident that answer is no.

With each PAC-12 school getting $25 million per year from cable and TV networks, you know the Big Ten will get at least that amount after the current contracts end. BTN pays out about $6-7 million per year per school, and I don't see how this expansion can increase that payout enough to make this a net gain for the current Big Ten members.

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Old Nov 18, 2012, 05:12 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by ILL_INI View Post
The likelihood of this story being true seems about 0.001%. I only give it credence because no one appears to be flat out denying it.

If this is about money, for the conference to break even, two additional schools would have to cause revenues to increase 15.4%, since the split would go from 13 to 15. Would games featuring Rutgers and Maryland cause such a huge ratings increase in DC and NYC (or nationally) that network and bowl executives will increase the entire financial package over 15%? I'm pretty confident that answer is no.

With each PAC-12 school getting $25 million per year from cable and TV networks, you know the Big Ten will get at least that amount after the current contracts end. BTN pays out about $6-7 million per year per school, and I don't see how this expansion can increase that payout enough to make this a net gain for the current Big Ten members.
I don't know if the rumor is true, but we do know it IS about the money and if a move was made it would be based on an increased payout for all schools. It just wouldn't happen if there was any erosion in income unless it was for a VERY short term.

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Old Nov 18, 2012, 05:19 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by ILL_INI View Post
The likelihood of this story being true seems about 0.001%. I only give it credence because no one appears to be flat out denying it.

If this is about money, for the conference to break even, two additional schools would have to cause revenues to increase 15.4%, since the split would go from 13 to 15. Would games featuring Rutgers and Maryland cause such a huge ratings increase in DC and NYC (or nationally) that network and bowl executives will increase the entire financial package over 15%? I'm pretty confident that answer is no.

With each PAC-12 school getting $25 million per year from cable and TV networks, you know the Big Ten will get at least that amount after the current contracts end. BTN pays out about $6-7 million per year per school, and I don't see how this expansion can increase that payout enough to make this a net gain for the current Big Ten members.
New TV deal for 2017 will be a huge increase without these two new teams. But, if you add NYC, Bal, and D.C. markets to the pot, it is going to blow away that 15% increase you poo-poo.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 05:49 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by ct3illini View Post
I think you are right. The "grand" plan may be to get UNC, and getting UMD is a needed step towards that.
You could be right, but to me that expalins UMd but not RU. This seems to me to be a play to leverage Penn St in the populous easter seaboard. That might help eventually with UNC, but not directly. If Delany wanted to destabalize the ACC GaTech would be a better candidate to accompany UMd than RU.

The significance is that these are half of the remaining spots to 16, so there is not a lot of room for ad hoc opportunism. I'm sure Delany has a Post ND strategy of some sort.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 06:54 AM   #108
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I always thought UVa would be a good fit for B1G, but if you already have MD not sure whether there is a financial justification...
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 07:01 AM   #109
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That probably is the idea. I wonder if Chicago fans would care about UIUC if Penn State, Nebraska, Ohio State and Michigan were regularly playing games in Illinois?
Really appreciate the subtlety. :laugh:
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 07:10 AM   #110
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I always thought UVa would be a good fit for B1G, but if you already have MD not sure whether there is a financial justification...
Getting Virginia is a lot more complicated than getting Maryland because Virginia has to convince the state government that Virginia Tech will not be completely burned by this move. Maryland has no little brother to look after. UNC won't screw over NC State, so the only way we could get them is if the SEC grabbed NC State.

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Old Nov 18, 2012, 07:31 AM   #111
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Getting Virginia is a lot more complicated than getting Maryland because Virginia has to convince the state government that Virginia Tech will not be completely burned by this move. Maryland has no little brother to look after. UNC won't screw over NC State, so the only way we could get them is if the SEC grabbed NC State.
This is assuming V. Tech isn't working on a deal to go to the Big 12 with FSU or going to the SEC.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 07:39 AM   #112
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To the people who keep bringing up UConn: they're not an AAU member[1], which is virtually a prerequisite for Big Ten membership. On top of that, their football and basketball profits are tiny.

"AAU membership is a part of who we are. It’s an important part of who we are." --Delany

"All the Big Ten schools are AAU members. I doubt that our application would've been accepted had we not been a member of the organization." --Nebraska Chancellor (although Nebraska did lose their AAU membership 9 months after being accepted)

Now, the reason I say virtually is that the Big Ten has courted Notre Dame, which also isn't a member. Notre Dame football and basketball bring in a profit of $34M. UConn? $800k.

[1] - http://www.aau.edu/about/article.aspx?id=5476
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 07:45 AM   #113
track
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NYC & DC Alumni clubs say hello

The traditionist side of me is not happy with this, but...
Being in the NYC area, it gives me a chance to see more games when the teams come to NJ or Maryland. Marylands campus can be reached in under 4 hours from NYC.

When the basketball team was in the spotlight a few years ago, the alumni turnout on the east coast was good. I made the drive to DC for the Georgetown game in 2004 (?). We were well represented.

My main concern is the academic standing and reputation of the B1G. I assume that the schools would become members of the CIC and share in the huge research financials benefits.

Edit: http://www.cic.net/Home.aspx $7.1 Billion in funded research

Last edited by track; Nov 18, 2012 at 07:50 AM. Reason: Additional info
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 07:53 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by jackman404 View Post
Getting Virginia is a lot more complicated than getting Maryland because Virginia has to convince the state government that Virginia Tech will not be completely burned by this move. Maryland has no little brother to look after. UNC won't screw over NC State, so the only way we could get them is if the SEC grabbed NC State.
I'm not too keen on the idea of UVA joining the B10 just because they're the same colors as us
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 08:51 AM   #115
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I'm not too keen on the idea of UVA joining the B10 just because they're the same colors as us
I have it from good sources that is why we couldn't add Syracuse:laugh:
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 09:24 AM   #116
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http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/t...,4955959.story

Apparently Maryland has a conference call scheduled for this afternoon on the matter.

God I hope the Big10 is only mulling over options, and not truly serious about this. I'd be all for making another run at Notre Dame or Texas than this piece of crap proposal.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 09:37 AM   #117
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God I hope the Big10 is only mulling over options, and not truly serious about this. I'd be all for making another run at Notre Dame or Texas than this piece of crap proposal.
ND is not happening. Texas is not happening. Once you've accepted those facts, what about Rutgers/Maryland makes it a "piece of crap" proposal?

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Old Nov 18, 2012, 09:53 AM   #118
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Per commenter Zeek, Fox is likely buying part of YES. Fox is also majority owner of BTN. Rutgers makes more sense, no? http://nyti.ms/Q2h9WV

That's the leverage RT @seth_goodwin only if Fox plays hardball and says you don't get YES if you don't carry BTN

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Maryland's, Rutgers' potential move to Big Ten looms as risky gamble for conference

In a move that could make dollars, but not necessarily (football) sense, Big Ten commissioner Jim Delany has his league in advanced talks to make a bold change, one that should cement his legacy in the history of college athletics, one way or the other.

The Big Ten, in a move that would stun the industry, could again expand its ranks, this time pushing to the East Coast by adding Rutgers and the University of Maryland. The move is not official, but both schools are in advanced talks with the conference, sources told Yahoo! Sports. An announcement could come early next week.

If the moves are completed, the league will have 14 members and leave college athletics, which appeared to be done with the chaotic conference realignment carrousel, once again scrambling, with teams from New England to the Rocky Mountains potentially impacted.

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Call Me Maybe: Maryland and Rutgers Talking to the Big Ten

As Dan Wetzel pointed on in his column on the latest news, this isn’t a no-brainer move for the Big Ten on the level of adding Nebraska (or schools such as Notre Dame or Texas). However, I believe that it ultimately makes sense overall (especially the addition of Maryland). The timing of the move is a bit curious just as I was surprised by the timing of the SEC adding Texas A&M (and subsequently Missouri) last year, but the additions of Maryland and Rutgers fit what Big Ten commissioner Jim Delany stated was one of the long-term objectives of the conference’s original expansion exploration announced three years ago: making sure that the Big Ten keeps up with the changing demographics of the United States for next several decades.

http://frankthetank.wordpress.com/20...o-the-big-ten/
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 10:00 AM   #119
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ND is not happening. Texas is not happening. Once you've accepted those facts, what about Rutgers/Maryland makes it a "piece of crap" proposal?
1. Dilution of existing rivalries -- we wouldn't play each other as often as we currently do. Can't travel as easily to road games.

2. Honestly, they (MD + RU) stand to benefit more than we do (as current Big10 members)

3. By no means at all do MD and Rutgers give us the DC and NY markets. I live in NY, and I can assure you that nobody here gives a crap about Rutgers. You will find more Penn St and Michigan fans than either of those schools. As it has been stated numerous times, NYC is a Pro-sports town; unless we're adding the Yankees, Giants, or Jets to the Big10, I don't see it making that big of a difference.

The only way it makes sense, is if via this addition, the Big10 can get its network package on basic cable in all of NY, NJ, and DC. I suspect that the cable companies may not be willing to be that generous unless millions of fans suddenly appear out of thin air in DC, NYC, and NJ start clamoring for it.

4. Maryland doesn't add anything in terms of athletics -- they recently cut numerous sports, and they aren't financially viable. One of their big sports in Lacrosse isn't even played by Big10 programs.

5. I'll give you that both of these are fine academic and research institutions as part of AAU, etc.

6. This move seems a bit out of desperation following ND's stupid decision to go to the ACC (for all aside from Football). I wonder if this is to scare ND into rethinking theirs. At some point, conferences are going to expand into the Superconference structure -- and will ND then be relegated to having to join the ACC? Did ND lose it's opportunity for the Big10 by not coming earlier?

7. This move does little if anything to strengthen the level of play in Big10 football (I suspect that Northwestern could actually beat Rutgers if they played this season). If this happens, the SEC will no doubt shore up their conference with FSU and Clemson and add even more football power to their structure...leaving the ACC in possible football peril?

Not sure if it's possible (yet), but UNC would be a much better play than either of these two in the grand scheme of things.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 10:17 AM   #120
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Update on B1G RT @TerpsInsider: Maryland President to meet with Board of Regents this afternoon about Big Ten http://wapo.st/ZSTJWR

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Old Nov 18, 2012, 10:23 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by ILL_INI View Post
If this is about money, for the conference to break even, two additional schools would have to cause revenues to increase 15.4%, since the split would go from 13 to 15. Would games featuring Rutgers and Maryland cause such a huge ratings increase in DC and NYC (or nationally) that network and bowl executives will increase the entire financial package over 15%? I'm pretty confident that answer is no.

It's not just about additional revenue from maryland and rutgers games, it's about getting revenue from cable companies in NJ, NY, DC, MD and maybe Delaware and virginia to add the BTN. It's also about getting more Big10 games in general on network television in those areas too.

Adding Nebraska was about getting Nebraska as a member, adding rutgers and MD is about access to more households on the east coast.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 10:32 AM   #122
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Two reasons:

1) 14 is too many. A 14-team "conference" is not a true conference in relation to playing everyone in football and getting the teams you want to play at home in men's basketball.

In football with an 8-game schedule, there's 5 teams (!) you do not play.

Even with a 9-game schedule in football (and no school's AD wants to go there), there's still 4 teams you won't play in a given season.

In men's basketball, well no idea. You probably won't play the team you want to play twice in a season, let alone once in your own arena.

It's too much of a void. Too much luck with a given team's schedule.


2) From a sports perspective, Rutgers & Maryland bring nothing to the table.

Football = nothing.

Men's basketball = nothing.

I'm not saying they're incapable of beating Illinois in football or men's basketball. They are. They're quality teams from time-to-time. But, they're just another random team. They're not elite in anything.

It's not like playing Nebraska or Penn State in football. Beating Nebraska and/or Penn State in football (and women's volleyball) is special.

There's absolutely nothing exceptional about playing Rutgers and/or Maryland in football and/or men's basketball.


If this happens, the B1G conference is diluted. There's less chance of playing teams we want to play because we're bringing in teams we don't really care about. And that sucks.
Those are good reasons. What if the B1G went to 18 to 20 teams and split the B1G into 2 divisions for football and then each team in basketball played each other just once? Would that be better then being somewhere "in the middle"?
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 10:32 AM   #123
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1. Dilution of existing rivalries -- we wouldn't play each other as often as we currently do. Can't travel as easily to road games. On balance, we're pretty minimally impacted by this. The only team that I truly consider a blood rival that I would never want to lose a game with is IU for basketball. And this actually makes it far easier for our alums in NY and DC to see the Illini, which is a bigger "pro" than it is a "con" for people traveling from Illinois.

2. Honestly, they (MD + RU) stand to benefit more than we do (as current Big10 members) So does every potential new member.

3. By no means at all do MD and Rutgers give us the DC and NY markets. I live in NY, and I can assure you that nobody here gives a crap about Rutgers. You will find more Penn St and Michigan fans than either of those schools. As it has been stated numerous times, NYC is a Pro-sports town; unless we're adding the Yankees, Giants, or Jets to the Big10, I don't see it making that big of a difference. That's true, but I don't think people understand what the conference says when it says it wants to "get into" other markets. Do you think Jim Delany is operating on the assumption that B1G football will now be appointment viewing in NYC bars on Saturdays? No, of course not. But this strengthens links to alumni bases there and also builds a bridge to potential East Coast students who will now have more exposure to all of the B1G schools.

The only way it makes sense, is if via this addition, the Big10 can get its network package on basic cable in all of NY, NJ, and DC. I suspect that the cable companies may not be willing to be that generous unless millions of fans suddenly appear out of thin air in DC, NYC, and NJ start clamoring for it.

4. Maryland doesn't add anything in terms of athletics -- they recently cut numerous sports, and they aren't financially viable. One of their big sports in Lacrosse isn't even played by Big10 programs. Maryland is currently better than us in football and has a basketball national title.

5. I'll give you that both of these are fine academic and research institutions as part of AAU, etc. This should be higher than #5. It's why Mizzou is in the SEC.

6. This move seems a bit out of desperation following ND's stupid decision to go to the ACC (for all aside from Football). I wonder if this is to scare ND into rethinking theirs. At some point, conferences are going to expand into the Superconference structure -- and will ND then be relegated to having to join the ACC? Did ND lose it's opportunity for the Big10 by not coming earlier? It actually seems to me the opposite of desperate - ND was given every opportunity, they passed, now the window is closed. The B1G at 14 teams is the strongest entity in college athletics.

7. This move does little if anything to strengthen the level of play in Big10 football (I suspect that Northwestern could actually beat Rutgers if they played this season). If this happens, the SEC will no doubt shore up their conference with FSU and Clemson and add even more football power to their structure...leaving the ACC in possible football peril? The level of play in the B1G this year is so atrocious I don't think anybody (especially us) should be turning up their noses at anyone.

Not sure if it's possible (yet), but UNC would be a much better play than either of these two in the grand scheme of things.
It's been mentioned before, but UNC can't just leave NC State in the lurch. But yeah, if, down the road the dominoes fell to get UNC and Virginia that would be an amazing coup.

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Old Nov 18, 2012, 10:36 AM   #124
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Excellent post from Maryland blog RT @testudotimes: Explaining Maryland's motivation for moving to the Big Ten http://sbn.to/QQZK54

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Old Nov 18, 2012, 10:36 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by mattcoldagelli View Post
ND is not happening. Texas is not happening. Once you've accepted those facts, what about Rutgers/Maryland makes it a "piece of crap" proposal?
this

while I do not totally understand the reason to act now (though I never believed Delaneys smokescreen comment that we were okay staying at 12), these two schools are not crap.

UNC is the prize school in the ACC for many reasons, and if you cant get them, UMd is in the next tier. Rutgers? they have been discussed for awhile. while not a no brainer, either, they bring TV sets - not by themselves, but by who they will now be playing.
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