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Old Jan 18, 2013, 02:48 PM   #4226
zoggle101
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Originally Posted by Hugh Jorgen View Post
I personally think it would be a BIG mistake to include Henry on that list...the kid can flat out score and rebounds really well for his size. Biggest issue for Henry right now is lackadaisical defense, which can be fixed. I don't think you ever chase off someone w/ his scoring ability. He is the player that I would see blossoming under this staff by next year.
I don't think you ever "chase" anyone off. Ever since this talk about creaningg guys started we've been in a nose dive. I wasn't really sure why Groce kept recruiting 13 and filled all five scholarships in that class along with having a transfer in a Rice coming in next year. Honestly, when we brought in Sambo it set our sophomore pf's back which is looking like a huge problem right now. Duke routinely doesn't use all 13 scholarships every year. I would have loved to role a scholarship over to 14, but we did get two solid recruits with the last two scholarships. At least Colbert is an athletic pf who is long, and Tate is pg.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 02:50 PM   #4227
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Originally Posted by Hugh Jorgen View Post
I personally think it would be a BIG mistake to include Henry on that list...the kid can flat out score and rebounds really well for his size. Biggest issue for Henry right now is lackadaisical defense, which can be fixed. I don't think you ever chase off someone w/ his scoring ability. He is the player that I would see blossoming under this staff by next year.
His season high this year is 9, for a team that was really getting up and down earlier this season.
At some point, a scorer has to go off, even if it's only for one game.
He hasn't shown any marked improvement in the time he's been on campus.
I know it's not the popular opinion among most Illini fans, but I just don't see him as a guy that is suddenly going to be able to score effectively at this level.
He doesn't display the swagger, assertiveness, or tenacity that you see in most big time scorers.
I don't know if that stems from a fragile ego or what, but there's nothing that I've seen from him so far that indicates that he will be a good player at Illinois.
Plus, at his size, he's out of position at both the 3 and 4.
He doesn't have the quickness or handle to play the 3 offensively and can't contain at that spot defensively.
At the 4, he's undersized and still doesn't have the quickness to get past bigger guys or the elevation to go over them.
IMO, he's closer to bust than boom.

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Old Jan 18, 2013, 02:51 PM   #4228
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Consider me on the Ulis bandwagon...After watching multiple clips of him, reading multiple reports over the past 6 months, and a couple games (including the entire game last night)...He's a gamer, clutch, and has a huge heart. I'd love to see him at Illinois.
Maybe we should start a petition.

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Old Jan 18, 2013, 02:53 PM   #4229
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Originally Posted by Hugh Jorgen View Post
I personally think it would be a BIG mistake to include Henry on that list...the kid can flat out score and rebounds really well for his size. Biggest issue for Henry right now is lackadaisical defense, which can be fixed. I don't think you ever chase off someone w/ his scoring ability. He is the player that I would see blossoming under this staff by next year.
"Lackadaisical defense", So in other words you are saying he doesn't have a high motor. That is not easily "fixed". That is a mentality that someone is born with.

I wouldn't mind any of those guys being let go, as this is a different situation than what Crean is doing at IU. These players were recruited by BW and not by CG, and It would seem to benefit everyone involved as well. We need a new mentality on this team. I can't wait till this group has graduated to be honest.

BTW I'm a big Tyler Ullis fan. I wish we would give him a shot.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 02:54 PM   #4230
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If Ulis = Pressey that would be good.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 02:56 PM   #4231
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Originally Posted by zoggle101 View Post
I don't think you ever "chase" anyone off. Ever since this talk about creaningg guys started we've been in a nose dive. I wasn't really sure why Groce kept recruiting 13 and filled all five scholarships in that class along with having a transfer in a Rice coming in next year. Honestly, when we brought in Sambo it set our sophomore pf's back which is looking like a huge problem right now. Duke routinely doesn't use all 13 scholarships every year. I would have loved to role a scholarship over to 14, but we did get two solid recruits with the last two scholarships. At least Colbert is an athletic pf who is long, and Tate is pg.
I think the problem is that the sophomore PF's aren't able to compete.
If they were, they would get minutes.
This isn't about seniority; this is about being able to play and produce.
The sophs haven't, although it looks like Shaw might have started to figure it out as of late.

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Old Jan 18, 2013, 02:58 PM   #4232
Karl Welzein
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Originally Posted by Hugh Jorgen View Post
I personally think it would be a BIG mistake to include Henry on that list...the kid can flat out score and rebounds really well for his size. Biggest issue for Henry right now is lackadaisical defense, which can be fixed. I don't think you ever chase off someone w/ his scoring ability. He is the player that I would see blossoming under this staff by next year.
His scoring and rebounding is one of the bigger myths so far of the past two seasons. He will chuck threes and if they are falling get you a few points here and there. I think he is shooting about 10% on threes since the Gonzaga game however.

He does have a nose for offensive rebounds, but he has proven to be no better than the other PFs we use on defensive rebounds.

As far as his motor, if he can't get motivated to work his butt off and take the PF position away from the people we have been using, what will motivate him to work hard???
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 02:59 PM   #4233
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Originally Posted by OrangeandBlue89 View Post
"Lackadaisical defense", So in other words you are saying he doesn't have a high motor. That is not easily "fixed". That is a mentality that someone is born with.

I wouldn't mind any of those guys being let go, as this is a different situation than what Crean is doing at IU. These players were recruited by BW and not by CG, and It would seem to benefit everyone involved as well. We need a new mentality on this team. I can't wait till this group has graduated to be honest.

BTW I'm a big Tyler Ullis fan. I wish we would give him a shot.
The one thing that a precedence of pulling scholarships would give is an increased level of accountability and high expectations.
Playing basketball at the University of Illinois is a huge deal that comes with huge responsibility.

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Old Jan 18, 2013, 03:04 PM   #4234
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I wonder how big of a deal people would make it if JG decided to let players go. Didnt Larry Brown dis miss a bunhc of players from the SMU team or something like that when he got there? I dont hear anyone talking about that anymore. Maybe it wasnt as big of a deal as it would be if JG did it?
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 03:09 PM   #4235
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Originally Posted by Karl Welzein View Post
His scoring and rebounding is one of the bigger myths so far of the past two seasons. He will chuck threes and if they are falling get you a few points here and there. I think he is shooting about 10% on threes since the Gonzaga game however.

He does have a nose for offensive rebounds, but he has proven to be no better than the other PFs we use on defensive rebounds.

As far as his motor, if he can't get motivated to work his butt off and take the PF position away from the people we have been using, what will motivate him to work hard???
Agree completely. He appears to be in the dog house and with us offering another PF (Obi) and then benching him, I think that may tell us something.

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Old Jan 18, 2013, 03:31 PM   #4236
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Agree completely. He appears to be in the dog house and with us offering another PF (Obi) and then benching him, I think that may tell us something.
Offering a scholarship is a long way from getting a commitment.

I also don't think Henry is in the doghouse.
He just hasn't been performing and is undeserving of playing time right now.
Judging from the few times he was on camera last night, he seemed to be in good spirits and had a good attitude.

I just think this team needs guys with a mean streak.
The good teams always had guys that didn't back down and weren't afraid to mix it up -- Sergio, Griffin, Chukwudebe, Lucas, Damir, Arch, Dee, Powell, Deron, Augie, Frazier, Battle, Hamilton, Anderson, Norman, Altenburger, etc.

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Old Jan 18, 2013, 03:40 PM   #4237
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Henry isn't guarding with a purpose and really never has and that is why he didn't play last night. Coach was sending a message to the bench that if you do not get after it like M Shaw did against Wisky and in practice then you will lose your spot in the rotation. Langford missed some practice time out with the flu and that puts a guy behind for missing time that others didn't.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 03:45 PM   #4238
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Originally Posted by Foo G View Post
Offering a scholarship is a long way from getting a commitment.

I also don't think Henry is in the doghouse.
He just hasn't been performing and is undeserving of playing time right now.
Judging from the few times he was on camera last night, he seemed to be in good spirits and had a good attitude.

I just think this team needs guys with a mean streak.
The good teams always had guys that didn't back down and weren't afraid to mix it up -- Sergio, Griffin, Chukwudebe, Lucas, Damir, Arch, Dee, Powell, Deron, Augie, Frazier, Battle, Hamilton, Anderson, Norman, Altenburger, etc.
You would not offer if you did not intend to recruit someone at that position would you?

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Old Jan 18, 2013, 03:49 PM   #4239
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I'm beginning to wonder if this isn't the best route to take. Just inform the guys you don't see fitting into your system that it's time to move on. Do it immediately at the end of the season and bring in the guys you want. Deal with the backlash that will surely come all at once and move forward. Don't drag it out where you have a guy or two this year and someone else next season. Were this to happen I see MyH, MS, & ID being on that list. DL being a RSFR and having higher potential of anyone else in that group I'd be happy to keep. I don't like it, but for Groce to move forward at the pace he'd like to, and what we as fans seem to expect, I think he has to strongly consider this course of action.

And as a side note, I know some would be concerned about our recruits perception of a move like this. They have two options of how to view such a move.

1) I don't want to play for a coach who does that to his players!
or
2) I want to play for a coach who wants to field the best team he possibly can, and does whatever that takes, because that's how you win!

Personally I'd prefer the recruit with attitude #2.
Doesn't seem to have bothered that team to the east any...
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 03:55 PM   #4240
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Looking back when we were recruiting Henry,almost to a man the 5,000 talent evaluators on this board wanted him over Sam Thompson. When Henry outplayed Amir Williams in Detroit, people thought Henry was going to be a burger boy. Same for Henry over the Purdue kid Anthony Johnson.
I know there will be posters come on here and say no they wanted Thompson badly and he was McDonald's AA, blah, blah, but bottom line is a very high percent really wanted Henry.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 04:02 PM   #4241
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Henry in some ways has not had the opportunity to be a scorer. In his time here he has been a role player that has not really taken advantage of his time on the court. His ability to perform at a high level is in him somewhere. Unfortunately for him we have been stacked at the wing position for several years now. If we had 3 Centers and 3 Point guards he would likely be a different player at this point. If we had a few more solid defensive players he might also get more time.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 04:10 PM   #4242
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Originally Posted by TCTORNADO View Post
Looking back when we were recruiting Henry,almost to a man the 5,000 talent evaluators on this board wanted him over Sam Thompson. When Henry outplayed Amir Williams in Detroit, people thought Henry was going to be a burger boy. Same for Henry over the Purdue kid Anthony Johnson.
I know there will be posters come on here and say no they wanted Thompson badly and he was McDonald's AA, blah, blah, but bottom line is a very high percent really wanted Henry.
I admit it. I did. Personally I think he is still better than Sam Thompson.

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Old Jan 18, 2013, 04:18 PM   #4243
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Sam Thompson is a one trick pony at this point IMO. Henry has more potential than that but Thompson is more effective for his team right now no one can argue that.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 04:38 PM   #4244
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Sam Thompson is a one trick pony at this point IMO. Henry has more potential than that but Thompson is more effective for his team right now no one can argue that.
Ive seen Thompson play a few timss. I think he s coming on as a player. Henry... not so much.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 05:05 PM   #4245
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Isn't T.Uliss the same height R.Boatright of Ucon?
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 05:26 PM   #4246
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Isn't T.Uliss the same height R.Boatright of Ucon?
I don't think he is as explosive as Boatright. I'd compare him to Jerome Randle, but not with the scorers personality Randle had. Not saying TU can't score either, but Randle was fearless in college.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 05:58 PM   #4247
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I don't think he is as explosive as Boatright. I'd compare him to Jerome Randle, but not with the scorers personality Randle had. Not saying TU can't score either, but Randle was fearless in college.
There isn't too many people as explosive as Boatright. I thought TU is a scorer?
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 06:30 PM   #4248
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Henry in some ways has not had the opportunity to be a scorer. In his time here he has been a role player that has not really taken advantage of his time on the court. His ability to perform at a high level is in him somewhere. Unfortunately for him we have been stacked at the wing position for several years now. If we had 3 Centers and 3 Point guards he would likely be a different player at this point. If we had a few more solid defensive players he might also get more time.
I agree with this. He really just has not had an opportunity to dominate games. I dont expect it to happen this year, although it is possible. I would expect his time to come next year and his senior year.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 06:41 PM   #4249
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Agree completely. He appears to be in the dog house and with us offering another PF (Obi) and then benching him, I think that may tell us something.
I don't always agree with much of anything you say Dayton, but I'm with you on this one. The Obi offer seemed to come from nowhere, so maybe coach has reached his limit
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 07:31 PM   #4250
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I don't always agree with much of anything you say Dayton, but I'm with you on this one. The Obi offer seemed to come from nowhere, so maybe coach has reached his limit
I don't see the connection. Obi would not be here for two years. What happens next year? If we were looking to bring in a spring 2013 power forward, the theory would make more sense.
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