Grade school shooting in Connecticut

[mattcoldagelli]

Originally Posted by KBLEE

Leave it to our president to politicize a prayer service. Despicable...

Honestly, what does this statement even mean? Anything the President says or does is "political," because he is the head of the executive branch of the federal government. The people that "politicized" tonight's event are the ones that invited him or signed off on his attendance. Shake your head at them.

I'm sure you were equally outraged when President Bush "politicized" what was, at the time, a mass grave site:

[NorthwesternIllini4]

Originally Posted by mattcoldagelli

Honestly, what does this statement even mean? Anything the President says or does is "political," because he is the head of the executive branch of the federal government. The people that "politicized" tonight's event are the ones that invited him or signed off on his attendance. Shake your head at them.

I'm sure you were equally outraged when President Bush "politicized" what was, at the time, a mass grave site:

Careful. You're making a little too much sense

[Ryllini]

Originally Posted by NorthwesternIllini4

Careful. You're making a little too much sense

[classof2016]

Originally Posted by KBLEE

Leave it to our president to politicize a prayer service. Despicable...

Leave it to Republicans to criticize Obama when he is trying to help heal the country/Newtown in a respectful manner. President Obama showed nothing but class while focusing on the victims and their families. It was never about him, and now you are trying to make this tragedy about red vs. blue. Disgusting.

[KBLEE]

Originally Posted by Ryllini

Whatever you feel about our president, he was in a tough spot in a tough time. No need to criticize. What was he going to say to make you happy....let's arm our teachers?...that is stupid. A armed terrorist has a semi or fully automatic weapon(s), that will get off how many rounds before your teacher? your teacher will be reaching in the desk the same time the offender is committing suicide.He was visibly upset. Whether you like him or not, he is a parent first, and I am sure it hits home with him. This isn't a rare rash, google it, this has been happening fr a while now. More guns is not the answer. Sorry, this isn't about politics, but Jesus Christ give our president a break. Despicable of you to turn a tough time and tough speech into something political. And he is right....we aren't doing enough to protect our children or any harmless citizen in this country.

This was a prayer service to attempt to console the families / community. His political comments were wholly inappropriate. The speech would have had the same impact if this part had been omitted:

We can't tolerate this anymore. These tragedies must end. And to end them, we must change. We will be told that the causes of such violence are complex, and that is true. No single law — no set of laws can eliminate evil from the world, or prevent every senseless act of violence in our society.

But that can't be an excuse for inaction. Surely, we can do better than this. If there is even one step we can take to save another child, or another parent, or another town, from the grief that has visited Tucson, and Aurora, and Oak Creek, and Newtown, and communities from Columbine to Blacksburg before that — then surely we have an obligation to try.

In the coming weeks, I will use whatever power this office holds to engage my fellow citizens — from law enforcement to mental health professionals to parents and educators — in an effort aimed at preventing more tragedies like this. Because what choice do we have? We can't accept events like this as routine. Are we really prepared to say that we're powerless in the face of such carnage, that the politics are too hard? Are we prepared to say that such violence visited on our children year after year after year is somehow the price of our freedom?

[AHSIllini32]

Originally Posted by KBLEE

This was a prayer service to attempt to console the families / community. His political comments were wholly inappropriate. The speech would have had the same impact if this part had been omitted:

I figured it would be Dayton making these comments but I figured someone would:rolleyes:

What in the world did he say there that has you so outraged? Or is it just because it's Obama and you're supposed to dislike him because he's a filthy, despicable Democrat? Was it that he said no laws could prevent evil from happening? Is it that he was calling on all of us to take steps to ensure more innocent children don't suffer this same type of fate? Is it because he said he would use anyone from law enforcement to teachers to take steps necessary to ensure this doesn't happen again? He says not one single thing about any specific policies so quit listening to Fox News and realize that as Americans we need to unite ourselves against this ridiculous, barbaric violence and that we need to quit making everything a "republican vs. democrat" debate for God's sakes!!!!!!

I'm going to say the same thing I said to Dayton, this is exactly what part of the problem with this country is. No one views themselves as "Americans" anymore. They're "republicans" or "democrats" or "conservatives" or "liberals" or "independents". Why can't we just agree to all be friggin Americans and find ways to stop this from happening.

[DaytonIllini]

Originally Posted by Ryllini

Whatever you feel about our president, he was in a tough spot in a tough time. No need to criticize. What was he going to say to make you happy....let's arm our teachers?...that is stupid. A armed terrorist has a semi or fully automatic weapon(s), that will get off how many rounds before your teacher? your teacher will be reaching in the desk the same time the offender is committing suicide.He was visibly upset. Whether you like him or not, he is a parent first, and I am sure it hits home with him. This isn't a rare rash, google it, this has been happening fr a while now. More guns is not the answer. Sorry, this isn't about politics, but Jesus Christ give our president a break. Despicable of you to turn a tough time and tough speech into something political. And he is right....we aren't doing enough to protect our children or any harmless citizen in this country.

Hey the face I made was at you not our President. You enter the conversation and call someone an idiot. That is not how this site works typically.

[AHSIllini32]

Originally Posted by DaytonIllini

Turkey outlawed guns in 1911 and in the next two years murdered 1 million of its Armenian citizens.

The USSR outlawed guns in 1929 and then went on to kill 20 million of its citizens.

The Germans outlawed guns in 1928 and 1938 and then went on to kill 13 million of its citizens.

China outlawed guns in 1957 and then butchered 20 million of its citizens.

Guatemala put strict gun controls in place in 1964 before killing 100K Mayan Indians.

Uganda put in strict gun laws in 1970 and then killed 300K of its citizens.

Cambodia put in gun control laws in the 50's and watched as its government killed over 1 million people.

That is 7 times in 100 years where a country instituted tough gun laws only to then butcher a disarmed population.

That is the other elephant in the room. The simple fact is that we live in a country where the founders fought against their legal government. They were only able to do so because they were armed. They recognized that and codified the ability of its population to be armed. Some don't like it and there is CERTAINLY a dreadful price to pay for that freedom.

Really? You're going to say that the reason we all need guys is because the founding fathers fought a war to gain their independence? Really?

And you're going to compare the U.S. having strict gun laws to:
1) A Turkish country that was in a war during the 2 years you listed (convenient you left that out)

2) Communist Russia?

3) Nazi Germany (Really?!)

4) Communist China led by Mao Zedong?

5) 3rd world Guatemala killing a bunch of people during a revolt of their government?

6 and 7) Two African 3rd world countries that have been killing each other for years and in which gun laws will never have any effect.

Not on of these arguments is valid or in any way indicative of what would happen in American with stricter gun laws.

Plus, you're just throwing out a bunch of numbers with no time-frame attached or any mention of the state of the country before or after. These are just wild, random comparisons you're making in an effort to say more people need guns.

[AHSIllini32]

Originally Posted by DaytonIllini

Hey the face I made was at you not our President. You enter the conversation and call someone an idiot. That is not how this site works typically.

I say again, Pot....meet kettle.

[KBLEE]

Originally Posted by AHSIllini32

I figured it would be Dayton making these comments but I figured someone would:rolleyes:

What in the world did he say there that has you so outraged? Or is it just because it's Obama and you're supposed to dislike him because he's a filthy, despicable Democrat? Was it that he said no laws could prevent evil from happening? Is it that he was calling on all of us to take steps to ensure more innocent children don't suffer this same type of fate? Is it because he said he would use anyone from law enforcement to teachers to take steps necessary to ensure this doesn't happen again? He says not one single thing about any specific policies so quit listening to Fox News and realize that as Americans we need to unite ourselves against this ridiculous, barbaric violence and that we need to quit making everything a "republican vs. democrat" debate for God's sakes!!!!!!

I'm going to say the same thing I said to Dayton, this is exactly what part of the problem with this country is. No one views themselves as "Americans" anymore. They're "republicans" or "democrats" or "conservatives" or "liberals" or "independents". Why can't we just agree to all be friggin Americans and find ways to stop this from happening.

What part of IT WAS A PRAYER SERVICE do you people not understand? Someone last night made a good analogy: If the election had gone differently, it would have been Romney up there making the same speech. If, in the middle of it, he gave a shout out to the NRA, that would have been inappropriate as well. It has everything to do with context. If Obama makes the same speech today, it's not as big of an issue. But a prayer service for the families / community is not the time or place to inject a political agenda.

[KBLEE]

Originally Posted by mattcoldagelli

I'm sure you were equally outraged when President Bush "politicized" what was, at the time, a mass grave site:

Was that during a prayer service? Didn't think so...

[AHSIllini32]

Originally Posted by KBLEE

What part of IT WAS A PRAYER SERVICE do you people not understand? Someone last night made a good analogy: If the election had gone differently, it would have been Romney up there making the same speech. If, in the middle of it, he gave a shout out to the NRA, that would have been inappropriate as well. It has everything to do with context. If Obama makes the same speech today, it's not as big of an issue. But a prayer service for the families / community is not the time or place to inject a political agenda.

HE DIDN'T INJECT A POLITICAL AGENDA!!!! He called for action to stop violence...my goodness you're right, what a jerk to do that!

[AHSIllini32]

Originally Posted by KBLEE

Was that during a prayer service? Didn't think so...

He's literally standing on top of buried bodies underneath the rubble of a building....

[mattcoldagelli]

How about that one time Lincoln got all political when dedicating a cemetery? So despicable!

[KBLEE]

Originally Posted by mattcoldagelli

How about that one time Lincoln got all political when dedicating a cemetery? So despicable!

Right - because last night's prayer service and the Gettysburg Address are even remotely similar. Nice try... :rolleyes:

[Cool Hand Luke]

This kind of petty division is why this country is a god damned mess. How about throwing out ideas which, you know, might actually be useful? As a country we love to complain about politicians who get nothing done and only worry about protecting their party, blaming the other party, and simply keeping their jobs. Yet when incidents come up we play the same silly game.

20 kids are dead. What are we prepared to do about it besides b*tch and moan about Dems and Pubs?

But what I want to know is, did Jesse Jackson finally show up in Newtown?

As you were...

[mattcoldagelli]

Originally Posted by KBLEE

Right - because last night's prayer service and the Gettysburg Address are even remotely similar. Nice try... :rolleyes:

If your Romney example above is evidence of what you think constitutes a good analogy, I'm fine with you not being able to follow this. Encouraged, even.

[AHSIllini32]

Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke

This kind of petty division is why this country is a god damned mess. How about throwing out ideas which, you know, might actually be useful? As a country we love to complain about politicians who get nothing done and only worry about protecting their party, blaming the other party, and simply keeping their jobs. Yet when incidents come up we play the same silly game.

20 kids are dead. What are we prepared to do about it besides b*tch and moan about Dems and Pubs?

But what I want to know is, did Jesse Jackson finally show up in Newtown?

As you were...

Yes, exactly.

[KBLEE]

Originally Posted by mattcoldagelli

If your Romney example above is evidence of what you think constitutes a good analogy, I'm fine with you not being able to follow this. Encouraged, even.

Soldiers who died in the Civil War did so BECAUSE of political division. Unless you are prepared to make the same assumption regarding this incident, then your correlation makes no sense.

[AHSIllini32]

Originally Posted by KBLEE

Soldiers who died in the Civil War did so BECAUSE of political division. Unless you are prepared to make the same assumption regarding this incident, then your correlation makes no sense.

Way to completely derail a thread about one of the most unspeakable tragedies in our country by turning it political.

Back to the friggin topic:

Anyone see where the families of the kids who survived set up a fund in honor of those kids who lost their lives? I didn't have a chance to see what specifically the donations went towards but I'm assuming something having to do with the families of those lost.

[KBLEE]

Originally Posted by AHSIllini32

Way to completely derail a thread about one of the most unspeakable tragedies in our country by turning it political.

Right - because I'm the one who did that. :rolleyes:

To use your favorite phrase: Pot....meet kettle.

[NorthwesternIllini4]

Typical AHS, coming in with guns blazin (pun not intended)

Please do everyone a favor and either (a) try to be more civil, or (b) stick to the Football thread

[AHSIllini32]

Originally Posted by NorthwesternIllini4

Typical AHS, coming in with guns blazin (pun not intended)

Please do everyone a favor and either (a) try to be more civil, or (b) stick to the Football thread

I've done nothing different than anyone else in this thread so please don't single me out.

Regardless, let's get back to the topic here shall we?

[Illinoise]

Originally Posted by sdfidaho

I'm just so glad that the world has so changed since the 1960's that we no longer have to worry about freedom, or defending it.

Defending your freedom against an intruder is an argument I buy. Defending yourself against a government that is going to disarm the population and install tyranny is not. If you you really believe this is a risk, get in your bunker and when I knock three times its safe to come out.

[Illinoise]

Originally Posted by DaytonIllini

Apparently you are ignoring the fact that the world is A lot safer place in terms of crime than it was 20 years ago. During that time gun laws have been generally relaxed throughout the nation.

Your premise ignores the facts. But don't let that stop you.

And you have no idea what I think so why doubt that my stated thoughts are what they are?

You do realize that the reason for the 1st amendment is so you can criticize your government when it is wrong or being tryanical.

In fact almost all the Bill of Rights were defenses of the individual against the power of the government. If you don't realize that, it's pointless discussing this with you.

My premise is that guns are a problem, not that they are evil. If you disagree then there is no point. I am only suggesting that we must be able to do better. This kid had access to military style weapons that were capable of doing extraordinary damage in a short amount of time. Clips with 30 rounds in them is not making anyone safer. You can't stop bad people from doing bad things but common sense seems to be lacking here. You may want to accept this as the price of freedom, I don't. I think we can do better.