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Old Jan 17, 2013, 05:26 PM   #426
zoggle101
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My brother by the time he was 22 had a small artillery that included a shot gun, some type of legal assault rifle, two 9 mm hand guns, and a couple .38's. All they did was get him into trouble.

10-15 guys decided they wanted to jump him and his buddy down in Carbondale when he visited a girl he was dating at the time who had an ex bf at the party. I know my brother, and he knew something stupid could possibly happen by going down there ultimately deciding to take his two nines with him. He told me they were going to the shooting range down there, and that's why he had them. Anyway after fighting with the kid for a little bit one of his buddies decided to help ( why my brother was 6'1 140lbs ) getting my brothers friend(military) involved which then prompted the rest of the other guys friends to get involved. Some girls got it broke up, but as my brother was leaving a beer bottle was thrown at his brand new car while a mob moved toward them. He popped the trunk, grabbed his gun and fired a warning shot into the grass. Needless to say, no more beer bottles were thrown, and the mob deceased taking any further action. He was pulled over 10 minutes later, arrested, both guns confiscated, and I'm pretty sure he can never own a gun again after that.

Another story for those who think if they have a firearm they're are safe at home. I had a friend who had a couple guns. Well, he lived in an apartment complex ( affordable housing ) had two cars with rims, and dressed well. He was taking a nap on the coach when his front door was kicked in, hit in the head with the butt of a shot gun, drug up the stairs by his neck to his room, and forced to open his safe which contained a couple thousand dollars, and one of his guns. He said he couldn't even use the gun or he would have died too. If someone thinks you have something they want they'll come hard at you with as much force as necessary.

Look last night at the basketball game. There were armed officers, and they didn't stop a kid from being killed.

I could only imagine how many warning shots will be fired if we allow people to carry concealed like this is the wild west. How were things by the way during that period as far as homicides? I imagine there were a lot of showdowns back in those days.

FWIW I'm not against or scared of firearms. They've been around me my whole life be it friends, family, or neighbors owning them even the criminals. I just don't see a reason why we should be carrying them around? Be alert if you feel like you're in a shady area, don't get out of the vehicle especially if you're alone, and most importantly get out of there.

I have a hard time believing we all fear for our lives everyday. I'd hate to live like that. I know it only takes one time, but I can gurantee that I'm around places along with people where my safety is more of an issue than most on here. I've never needed a firearm because I'm aware of the situation around me.

Lol @ the Goverment possibly killing citizens because the want to disarm us. Give me some of what you're sipping ( I used sipping because alcoholism is as serious as marijuana abuse ). The world has changed a lot since I was child, and the USA isn't a country who can suppress it's citizens in any type of super radical way. The UN would be all over any type of genocide happening in the US as we are when it happens in other countries in this modern era. We are the worlds police. So, why would we commit these atrocities?

I know we look the other way to cheating in MMA, Baseball, Football ( I'd be asking Teo about steroid use instead of worrying if he made a fake gf), and even Miss America where fake teeth, liposuction along with enhancement in your chest are all part of a beauty contest. We have dads beating each other to death over children's sports and parents, teachers, politicians, and doctors who don't care about anyone other than theirselves.......

Last edited by zoggle101; Jan 17, 2013 at 05:40 PM.
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 05:45 PM   #427
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Can't believe your brother was arrested. Ridiculous. I would've done the same thing if I was in that situation.

Hope the kids throwing beer bottles got in trouble too.

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Old Jan 17, 2013, 07:11 PM   #428
DaytonIllini
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoggle101 View Post
My brother by the time he was 22 had a small artillery that included a shot gun, some type of legal assault rifle, two 9 mm hand guns, and a couple .38's. All they did was get him into trouble.

10-15 guys decided they wanted to jump him and his buddy down in Carbondale when he visited a girl he was dating at the time who had an ex bf at the party. I know my brother, and he knew something stupid could possibly happen by going down there ultimately deciding to take his two nines with him. He told me they were going to the shooting range down there, and that's why he had them. Anyway after fighting with the kid for a little bit one of his buddies decided to help ( why my brother was 6'1 140lbs ) getting my brothers friend(military) involved which then prompted the rest of the other guys friends to get involved. Some girls got it broke up, but as my brother was leaving a beer bottle was thrown at his brand new car while a mob moved toward them. He popped the trunk, grabbed his gun and fired a warning shot into the grass. Needless to say, no more beer bottles were thrown, and the mob deceased taking any further action. He was pulled over 10 minutes later, arrested, both guns confiscated, and I'm pretty sure he can never own a gun again after that.

Another story for those who think if they have a firearm they're are safe at home. I had a friend who had a couple guns. Well, he lived in an apartment complex ( affordable housing ) had two cars with rims, and dressed well. He was taking a nap on the coach when his front door was kicked in, hit in the head with the butt of a shot gun, drug up the stairs by his neck to his room, and forced to open his safe which contained a couple thousand dollars, and one of his guns. He said he couldn't even use the gun or he would have died too. If someone thinks you have something they want they'll come hard at you with as much force as necessary.

Look last night at the basketball game. There were armed officers, and they didn't stop a kid from being killed.

I could only imagine how many warning shots will be fired if we allow people to carry concealed like this is the wild west. How were things by the way during that period as far as homicides? I imagine there were a lot of showdowns back in those days.

FWIW I'm not against or scared of firearms. They've been around me my whole life be it friends, family, or neighbors owning them even the criminals. I just don't see a reason why we should be carrying them around? Be alert if you feel like you're in a shady area, don't get out of the vehicle especially if you're alone, and most importantly get out of there.

I have a hard time believing we all fear for our lives everyday. I'd hate to live like that. I know it only takes one time, but I can gurantee that I'm around places along with people where my safety is more of an issue than most on here. I've never needed a firearm because I'm aware of the situation around me.

Lol @ the Goverment possibly killing citizens because the want to disarm us. Give me some of what you're sipping ( I used sipping because alcoholism is as serious as marijuana abuse ). The world has changed a lot since I was child, and the USA isn't a country who can suppress it's citizens in any type of super radical way. The UN would be all over any type of genocide happening in the US as we are when it happens in other countries in this modern era. We are the worlds police. So, why would we commit these atrocities?

I know we look the other way to cheating in MMA, Baseball, Football ( I'd be asking Teo about steroid use instead of worrying if he made a fake gf), and even Miss America where fake teeth, liposuction along with enhancement in your chest are all part of a beauty contest. We have dads beating each other to death over children's sports and parents, teachers, politicians, and doctors who don't care about anyone other than theirselves.......
I strongly recommend you get some drugs dude.

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Old Jan 18, 2013, 02:34 AM   #429
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I could only imagine how many warning shots will be fired if we allow people to carry concealed like this is the wild west. How were things by the way during that period as far as homicides? I imagine there were a lot of showdowns back in those days.
49 states have some form of concealed carry. and 49 states have not turned into the wild wild west.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 04:39 AM   #430
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49 states have some form of concealed carry. and 49 states have not turned into the wild wild west.
This.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 09:13 AM   #431
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http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/n...,6871704.story

Quote:
The District of Columbia, once known as the nationís murder capital, ended 2012 with fewer than 100 homicides for the first time since 1963.

The city recorded 88 homicides, down from the more than 400 a year it saw from 1989 through 1993 amid a crack cocaine epidemic.

Something seems to be working in DC.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 09:34 AM   #432
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http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/n...,6871704.story

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though Chicago surpassed 500 homicides, the highest annual total since 2008.

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Old Jan 18, 2013, 09:45 AM   #433
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What's your point? All I'm saying is that something DC is doing seems to be working and that other big cities should examine what exactly that is. There's been a steady decline in DC's murder rate since the early 1990s.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 09:53 AM   #434
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What's your point? All I'm saying is that something DC is doing seems to be working and that other big cities should examine what exactly that is. There's been a steady decline in DC's murder rate since the early 1990s.
How Washington D.C. Got Off The Most Dangerous Cities List
Quote:
The reasons Washington has gotten less violent: Gentrification, tax breaks, and urban reforms, according to John Roman, a senior fellow at the Urban Institute who also teaches criminology at the University of Pennsylvania.
Quote:
The relentless expansion of the federal government — and Gucci-clad supplicants at lobbying and consulting firms — helped drive up incomes in Washington, Roman said, while the city handed out generous tax breaks to move businesses within its borders.

The city also tore down high-rise public housing towers and replaced them with garden-style apartments. Gentrification, meanwhile, drove many of the city’s poorer residents out to suburbs like Prince George’s County, where the violent crime rates spiked a few years ago, but have since declined substantially.
Seems like the answer is that D.C. simply pushed the criminals outside its borders.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 09:56 AM   #435
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All I'm saying is that something DC is doing seems to be working and that other big cities should examine what exactly that is.
We should move the capitol to Chicago?

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Old Jan 18, 2013, 10:54 AM   #436
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No. What I'm saying is, just because it works in some areas, doesn't mean it will work everywhere. You can point at Washington D.C. and say: "LOOK! Gun laws are working well there!" and I can point at Chicago and say: "LOOK! Gun laws have been ineffective there!" There are many other factors that lead to the increase/decrease of gun violence. Based off of decreasing gun violence in DC vs increasing gun violence in Chicago (both cities are strict on guns), you can make a hypothesis that 1) gun laws have nothing to do with it 2) gangs are increasing in Chicago and decreasing in DC 3) people in Chicago are more violent or 4) Washington DC laws are more effective. I lean towards #1.

But seriously, get rid of all the drug laws, watch gang violence decrease. With decreasing gang violence, you'll see decreasing gun related deaths.

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Old Jan 18, 2013, 03:07 PM   #437
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I strongly recommend you get some drugs dude.
Maybe your wife has some suggestions to what I might need? She is obviously crazy to put up with you but the money probably isn't bad.

I agree that it would be stupid to disarm your citizens because if another super power invaded us why wouldn't you want all the extra help you can get.

Guns are for protecting your home and war zones. Not the streets.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 03:23 PM   #438
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Maybe your wife has some suggestions to what I might need? She is obviously crazy to put up with you but the money probably isn't bad.
Nice.

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I agree that it would be stupid to disarm your citizens because if another super power invaded us why wouldn't you want all the extra help you can get.

Guns are for protecting your home and war zones. Not the streets.
49 states disagree with you and all but 10 of them have lower murder rates than Illinois. Concealed carry is PROVEN to not increase crime. You can doubt this but it is akin to doubting whether the earth is warming. You'd be wrong.

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Old Jan 18, 2013, 03:27 PM   #439
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Maybe your wife has some suggestions to what I might need? She is obviously crazy to put up with you but the money probably isn't bad.

I agree that it would be stupid to disarm your citizens because if another super power invaded us why wouldn't you want all the extra help you can get.

Guns are for protecting your home and war zones. Not the streets.
then explain why 49 states have concealed carry and 49 states have not turned into the wild west?

responsible law abiding citizens should have the right to carry concealed weapons if they want to. you can just as easily(probably more easily) be a victim of violent crime away from your home. and under what you seem to believe you shouldnt be able to defend yourself outside of your home.

I get it, people you know have been a victim of gun violence. and that sucks, but I'd be willing to bet the person couldnt have got a legal concealed carry permit if you could get one in Illinois.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 03:46 PM   #440
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Sorry Dayton, I didn't take my meds today.

Okay, half those states aren't the size of Illinois. Their crime numbers were already low. St. Louis and Indianapolis I'm assuming have carried concealed laws, how has that worked out?

The thing you guys are assuming is everyone who can get a carried concealed permit is a law abiding citizen or mentally healthy. I could get a permit if it were legal. How safe would everyone feel about that

How many of you have cyually stopped. Crime from happening? I did once and it almost got me in trouble for putting hands on a minor. A kid was beating the crap out of another kid. I pulled the car over, the kid getting beat up ran over as I was getting out, and hide behind me. The other kid came charging, I shoved him, and he walked away. The kid getting beat up stood next to me until he spotted a cop across the street who had someone pulled over, and said he was going to go talk to him. He assured me he was okay, and starting walking toward the cop. The other kid appeared and chased the kid down only to start beating on him again. By that time my gf had called the cops, and the one across th street was heading towards the situation. I went into the movie store, and came out only to have to answer questions about if I shoved the kid.

When I was 8 the county sheriff showed up at my parents house looking for me. I had been walking down the street with my bb gun headed to one of my friends to shoot in the woods behind his house. A elderly gentlemen stopped me, and asked what I thought I was doing. The guy scared the crap out of me because he gptried to grab the bb gun out of my hands, and I turned around to head home. 30 minutes later the cops are there. People are scared of bb guns, why not real guns?

Last edited by zoggle101; Jan 18, 2013 at 03:57 PM.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 03:52 PM   #441
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Sorry Dayton, I didn't take my meds today.

Okay, half those states aren't the size of Illinois. St. Louis and Indianapolis I'm assuming have carried concealed laws, how has that worked out?

The thing you guys are assuming is everyone who can get a carried concealed permit is a law abiding citizen or mentally healthy. I could get a permit if it were legal. How safe would everyone feel about that
Well for the record I was thinking a little weed to take the edge off but I was only joking. You do know my take on legalizing drugs though. Looking back it sounded like I was suggesting meds for mental illness. Not my intent. And she says the money is great, thanks Zoggle.

I don't know about St. Louis or Indy laws but Cleveland, Columbus and Cinci have had less crime. Dayton (nicknames DayCrime by many in Ohio) too.

The thing about concealed carry is that the criminals are carrying without it being legal. This just allows the law abiding citizens to carry. There have been almost no incidents in the many years concealed carry has been law in Ohio. The head of the police here under Voinovich (a Republican governor) was deadset against concealed carry. He told us how many cops would be killed because of it. He apologized and admitted he was wrong on the radio last year.

It's like legalizing drugs. It sounds awful on the surface. It is repellant to all we've been taught. It can be attacked with anecdotes (as you did). But when implemented, it appears to not increase crime at all and quite possibly decreases crime by making civilians potentially hard targets.

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Old Jan 18, 2013, 03:57 PM   #442
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Sorry Dayton, I didn't take my meds today.

Okay, half those states aren't the size of Illinois. St. Louis and Indianapolis I'm assuming have carried concealed laws, how has that worked out?

The thing you guys are assuming is everyone who can get a carried concealed permit is a law abiding citizen or mentally healthy. I could get a permit if it were legal. How safe would everyone feel about that
Concealed carry has worked out fine in St. louis. The city has fewer homicides than they
did a few years ago. The fact is when a state passed concealed carry the liberals said
same thing u do. It will increase shootings, turn into wild west. And fact is not even one
time did that happen. Illinois will have concealed carry. Its just a matter of when. And
when they do all the downstate legislators should give the Chicago politicians a huge
middle finger.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 03:59 PM   #443
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then explain why 49 states have concealed carry and 49 states have not turned into the wild west?
Well, except Florida. Florida is batsh!t crazy.

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Old Jan 21, 2013, 10:10 AM   #444
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49 states have some form of concealed carry. and 49 states have not turned into the wild wild west.
You are once again misinterpreting the potential issues here. No one...well not anyone sane...thinks that if we legalize conceal and carry that there will be western-style gun fights in the middle of the streets and duals in the middle of bars. The issue is exactly what Zoggle discussed above. When tempers flare, the fear is that grabbing a gun is the first thing that people will do instead of deescalating the situation.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 10:13 AM   #445
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then explain why 49 states have concealed carry and 49 states have not turned into the wild west?

responsible law abiding citizens should have the right to carry concealed weapons if they want to. you can just as easily(probably more easily) be a victim of violent crime away from your home. and under what you seem to believe you shouldnt be able to defend yourself outside of your home.

I get it, people you know have been a victim of gun violence. and that sucks, but I'd be willing to bet the person couldnt have got a legal concealed carry permit if you could get one in Illinois.
And how in the hell are you going to ensure that everyone who gets a gun is a "responsible law abiding citizen"?
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 10:20 AM   #446
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And how in the hell are you going to ensure that everyone who gets a gun is a "responsible law abiding citizen"?
Increasing education and background checks?

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Old Jan 21, 2013, 11:59 AM   #447
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You are once again misinterpreting the potential issues here. No one...well not anyone sane...thinks that if we legalize conceal and carry that there will be western-style gun fights in the middle of the streets and duals in the middle of bars. The issue is exactly what Zoggle discussed above. When tempers flare, the fear is that grabbing a gun is the first thing that people will do instead of deescalating the situation.
But that fear is irrational given that concealed carry has been the law of the land for better than a decade in nearly every state.

Most of the debate is whether CC reduces crime. Almost nobody claims it increases crime.

A database of gun crimes by CC permit holders show that less than 1% of gun murders are committed by CC permit holders. That the vast majority of those occur in the home where the CC was irrelevant and that many of those occurred with long guns or accidental discharges, neither of which is covered by CC. In 2.5 yrs with this being the law of the land in 49 states only 119 deaths occurred at the hands of CC permit holders vs. 25,000 at the hands of non-CC permit holders.

Simply put, fearing CC is irrational.

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Old Jan 21, 2013, 01:26 PM   #448
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You are once again misinterpreting the potential issues here. No one...well not anyone sane...thinks that if we legalize conceal and carry that there will be western-style gun fights in the middle of the streets and duals in the middle of bars. The issue is exactly what Zoggle discussed above. When tempers flare, the fear is that grabbing a gun is the first thing that people will do instead of deescalating the situation.
States that passed concealed carry did not see that happen. 49 states can non be wrong.
However one state can. And is.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 01:33 PM   #449
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But that fear is irrational given that concealed carry has been the law of the land for better than a decade in nearly every state.

Most of the debate is whether CC reduces crime. Almost nobody claims it increases crime.

A database of gun crimes by CC permit holders show that less than 1% of gun murders are committed by CC permit holders. That the vast majority of those occur in the home where the CC was irrelevant and that many of those occurred with long guns or accidental discharges, neither of which is covered by CC. In 2.5 yrs with this being the law of the land in 49 states only 119 deaths occurred at the hands of CC permit holders vs. 25,000 at the hands of non-CC permit holders.

Simply put, fearing CC is irrational.
Amen. People like AHS are brainwashed to fear guns. They beleive they are evil. He can't
help it. No matter what facts you have that brainwashing is too deep. He will never see
that he is wrong.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 01:05 PM   #450
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Another school shooting is being reported in Texas. I don't know any more than that.
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