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James Kilgore at the University of Illinois

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Old Jun 25, 2014, 04:14 PM   #1
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http://thefederalist.com/2014/06/24/...aff-terrorist/

What a black mark for our school to not have Kilgore gone the second this stuff came to light. This is a man who was a conspirator in a crime that left a woman dead and an unborn baby miscarried when Kilgore's accomplice kicked the woman in the stomach.

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Old Jun 25, 2014, 04:27 PM   #2
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You really have to be sick to want to hire someone like Ayers or this POS to teach kids at an institution of higher learning.
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Old Jun 25, 2014, 07:43 PM   #3
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Wow. It always amazes me how forgiving people are. U of I truly is one of the world's dumbest institutions of higher learning. They are great in spite of their leadership, not because of it. How can you be in the process of requiring background criminal checks of new hires in 2014? Almost every mom and pop grocer has been doing that for more than a decade. Is it really a process anyway? Or is it merely a decision?

Also, "the state legislature may move to ban getting a degree or gaining university employment under false pretenses—like, say, a fake name. " I had to chuckle at that. Who would oppose that aside from the terminally brain dead?

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Old Jun 26, 2014, 12:12 PM   #4
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Who would oppose that aside from the terminally brain dead?
The same people who oppose laws that require one to identify who they are when voting. I'm sure if you dug through the wormhole of online leftism, you'd find arguments that such a law would be racist because black people have to change their names to go to college, or something.

But this is nothing new for academia and the far left. Murder, terrorism, lying about your ethnicity to get hired? Totes not a problem. Being conservative, supporting Israel, or being an Arab woman who speaks against radical Islam? You're history's greatest monster and the school would be worse than Hitler to allow you to speak.

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Old Jun 26, 2014, 12:36 PM   #5
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The same people who oppose laws that require one to identify who they are when voting. I'm sure if you dug through the wormhole of online leftism, you'd find arguments that such a law would be racist because black people have to change their names to go to college, or something.

But this is nothing new for academia and the far left. Murder, terrorism, lying about your ethnicity to get hired? Totes not a problem. Being conservative, supporting Israel, or being an Arab woman who speaks against radical Islam? You're history's greatest monster and the school would be worse than Hitler to allow you to speak.
Oh I know. I just took the opportunity to take a shot at them. He said "shot"!!!

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Old Jun 26, 2014, 01:40 PM   #6
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He said "shot"!!!
I believe that is a clear violation of the zero tolerance policy.
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Old Jun 26, 2014, 02:21 PM   #7
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Wow. It always amazes me how forgiving people are. U of I truly is one of the world's dumbest institutions of higher learning. They are great in spite of their leadership, not because of it. How can you be in the process of requiring background criminal checks of new hires in 2014? Almost every mom and pop grocer has been doing that for more than a decade. Is it really a process anyway? Or is it merely a decision?

Also, "the state legislature may move to ban getting a degree or gaining university employment under false pretensesólike, say, a fake name. " I had to chuckle at that. Who would oppose that aside from the terminally brain dead?
Unfortunately, I don't think this has anything to do with "forgiveness" in the sense you mean. Rather, I think that the university, and those petitioning on behalf of Kilgore, believe he had noble intentions during difficult times, and was forced into acts of extremism by a corrupt society. I doubt many of them believe he did anything truly wrong, and certainly not anything that would disqualify him from teaching, since he conforms to the current orthodoxy in that regard.
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Old Jun 26, 2014, 03:19 PM   #8
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Unfortunately, I don't think this has anything to do with "forgiveness" in the sense you mean. Rather, I think that the university, and those petitioning on behalf of Kilgore, believe he had noble intentions during difficult times, and was forced into acts of extremism by a corrupt society. I doubt many of them believe he did anything truly wrong, and certainly not anything that would disqualify him from teaching, since he conforms to the current orthodoxy in that regard.
Oh I wasn't clear. I meant that if that had been my wife that was kicked in the stomach and I lost my child, this dude would be taking a dirt nap in a field in central Illinois. It seems like people are much more willing to turn the other cheek than I am.

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Old Jun 26, 2014, 06:21 PM   #9
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Oh I wasn't clear. I meant that if that had been my wife that was kicked in the stomach and I lost my child, this dude would be taking a dirt nap in a field in central Illinois. It seems like people are much more willing to turn the other cheek than I am.
They only turn the cheek due to his shared ideology.
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Old Jun 26, 2014, 07:21 PM   #10
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They only turn the cheek due to his shared ideology.
Right. Plus, bonus for them, the kick merely terminated a "clump of cells," so it wasn't murder. No biggie.

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Old Jun 26, 2014, 11:11 PM   #11
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I don't frequently post on my Facebook page, but this one get a disgraceful post for my Alma mater.
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Old Jun 27, 2014, 12:29 AM   #12
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Wow. It always amazes me how forgiving people are. U of I truly is one of the world's dumbest institutions of higher learning. They are great in spite of their leadership, not because of it. How can you be in the process of requiring background criminal checks of new hires in 2014? Almost every mom and pop grocer has been doing that for more than a decade. Is it really a process anyway? Or is it merely a decision?

Also, "the state legislature may move to ban getting a degree or gaining university employment under false pretensesólike, say, a fake name. " I had to chuckle at that. Who would oppose that aside from the terminally brain dead?
Shouldn't he be fired for this alone?

I would think James Kilgore would need a degree to teach at a university. If I read correctly, James Kilgore does not hold these degrees, rather Charle Pape does. Heck if George O'Leary can be fired for lying, or was it embellishing, a degree, why can't this guy suffer the same consequences?
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Old Jun 28, 2014, 09:18 AM   #13
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Obviously, we're just not in tune with the expectations of universities.

"He (Kilgore) added: “I would expect that at the university, there’s an expectation -- especially at a [top research] institution such as the University of Illinois -- that they’re at the cutting edge of civil and human rights issues and employment for people with felony convictions.”

\http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2....ImuqBT4G.dpbs

FWIW - Apparently Kilgore did state that his degrees were obtained under the name Pape ... never mind while on the lam (perhaps working on his repentance speech). The UofI apparently didn't consider that a potential red flag for a background check.
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Old Jun 28, 2014, 10:21 AM   #14
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So you hang the guy because of something he did 40 years ago and ignore whether or not he is an outstanding educator? I don't know enough about him to pass judgement on the man he is today but I won't automatically dismiss a mature adult because of a hideous past from 40 years ago.

I suspect there are more than a few tenured professors who continue to collect paychecks without earning them and no one gets upset enough to get rid of them.
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Old Jun 28, 2014, 11:17 AM   #15
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So you hang the guy because of something he did 40 years ago and ignore whether or not he is an outstanding educator? I don't know enough about him to pass judgement on the man he is today but I won't automatically dismiss a mature adult because of a hideous past from 40 years ago.

I suspect there are more than a few tenured professors who continue to collect paychecks without earning them and no one gets upset enough to get rid of them.
I suspect you are a forgiving liberal. Lets start with your premise of it is a one off 40 years ago. You do realize that he ran and was hiding until he was caught, that speaks to who he is as a person and that is recent (coward). It doesn't matter if he is an outstanding "educator", many professions require licenses/certifications, these licenses are revoked (you are banned from that industry) for doing anything illegal.

Current tenured professors collecting checks does not justify paying this man (that is clearly your aim by bringing it up), that is a problem with the tenure system.
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Old Jun 28, 2014, 11:42 AM   #16
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I suspect you are a forgiving liberal. Lets start with your premise of it is a one off 40 years ago. You do realize that he ran and was hiding until he was caught, that speaks to who he is as a person and that is recent (coward). It doesn't matter if he is an outstanding "educator", many professions require licenses/certifications, these licenses are revoked (you are banned from that industry) for doing anything illegal.

Current tenured professors collecting checks does not justify paying this man (that is clearly your aim by bringing it up), that is a problem with the tenure system.
Your suspicion that I am a liberal is incorrect and I don't justify this guy because some other worthless professor is tenured, but aside from that, I don't really have a quarrel with your post. I just don't like hanging people without a lot more knowledge. I was a student in the 60's and what people did then doesn't come close to reflecting what they are today. There must be something good about the guy if many faculty and students are supporting him. Whether or not he should have ever been hired is certainly questionable but those who chose to put him in this position are certainly spineless if they boot him after a newspaper article.
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Old Jun 28, 2014, 12:00 PM   #17
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Your suspicion that I am a liberal is incorrect and I don't justify this guy because some other worthless professor is tenured, but aside from that, I don't really have a quarrel with your post. I just don't like hanging people without a lot more knowledge. I was a student in the 60's and what people did then doesn't come close to reflecting what they are today. There must be something good about the guy if many faculty and students are supporting him. Whether or not he should have ever been hired is certainly questionable but those who chose to put him in this position are certainly spineless if they boot him after a newspaper article.
He was still on the run until 2002, that is breaking the law, he was a fugitive. It is pretty clear how he acquired his job, nepotism, his wife has been on the UI faculty for many years. The people that hired him should be fired as well for gross incompetence.

Bring it up to a student referendum on whether he should retain his job.
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Old Jun 28, 2014, 12:18 PM   #18
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So you hang the guy because of something he did 40 years ago and ignore whether or not he is an outstanding educator? I don't know enough about him to pass judgement on the man he is today but I won't automatically dismiss a mature adult because of a hideous past from 40 years ago.

I suspect there are more than a few tenured professors who continue to collect paychecks without earning them and no one gets upset enough to get rid of them.
See. Some people have this amazing ability to forgive. It's a little bit sickening to me. Maybe you should ask the victims of his heinous crime whether they think he's paid his penance. Teaching our youth isn't some kind of human right. It's a privilege. I think not being a friggin felon would be enough to limit that right.

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Old Jun 28, 2014, 12:20 PM   #19
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He was still on the run until 2002, that is breaking the law, he was a fugitive. It is pretty clear how he acquired his job, nepotism, his wife has been on the UI faculty for many years. The people that hired him should be fired as well for gross incompetence.
All of this.

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Old Jun 28, 2014, 07:05 PM   #20
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So you hang the guy because of something he did 40 years ago and ignore whether or not he is an outstanding educator? I don't know enough about him to pass judgement on the man he is today but I won't automatically dismiss a mature adult because of a hideous past from 40 years ago.

I suspect there are more than a few tenured professors who continue to collect paychecks without earning them and no one gets upset enough to get rid of them.
Kiglore is/was not a tenured (though Ayres was). Ward Churchill comes to mind (an Urbana native of all things). I'm not against his rants on how native American Indians were mistreated (they were) , just that: "Churchill told the Post that he had spent some time at the Chicago office of the Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) in the late 1960s, and briefly taught members of the Weather Underground how to build bombs and fire weapons." ... and that he was shown to have committed "serious research misconducts in some of his work (hence his dismissal) Though I would have fired him just for calling those in the World Trade Tower 'littler Eichmans' after 9/11. wiki

However, Kiglore was an accomplice to murder (and I would have supported the death penalty for the shooter), and I have not seen anything remotely constituting remorse for his actions. His website indeed claims he was a 'political prisoner' for the 6 yrs he plea-bargained to for that crime.
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Old Jun 30, 2014, 07:36 AM   #21
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See. Some people have this amazing ability to forgive.
My comments were not clear and therefore they have been misinterpreted.

I don't forgive this guy and, lacking more knowledge about him, don't believe he was a good hire or deserved to be on the faculty. But, once that was done, he is being "let go" because of a newspaper article that exposed his past. None of this makes any sense to me. He didn't hide his past so why hire him? If you do hire him, knowing his past, why let a newspaper article affect that decision?
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Old Jun 30, 2014, 09:06 AM   #22
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My comments were not clear and therefore they have been misinterpreted.

I don't forgive this guy and, lacking more knowledge about him, don't believe he was a good hire or deserved to be on the faculty. But, once that was done, he is being "let go" because of a newspaper article that exposed his past. None of this makes any sense to me. He didn't hide his past so why hire him? If you do hire him, knowing his past, why let a newspaper article affect that decision?
Fair enough but sometimes a person is hired by another like minded individual. Had that person's bosses been aware of all the info they would not have hired the guy. If a newspapers article brings those issues to light, wouldn't it be reasonable then to take action?

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Old Jun 30, 2014, 09:29 AM   #23
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Fair enough but sometimes a person is hired by another like minded individual. Had that person's bosses been aware of all the info they would not have hired the guy. If a newspapers article brings those issues to light, wouldn't it be reasonable then to take action?
If the newspaper article is the sole source of full knowledge about the guy's past, then the situation is new information justifies new action but, if the guy was hired with full knowledge of his past, I'm more critical (at this time) of the hire than I am of the ex-con.

To be clear, a bad hire is not as bad as being a member of the SLA involved in murder.

I was on campus in the 60's. I was anti-war, anti-draft and participated in those movements. I was on Michigan Ave. in '68 at the democratic convention. When the weather underground started their nightly rampages of destruction on campus, (IIRC, in 1970 after Kent State) I condemned their action and never was sympathetic to the more radical, violent arm of the anti-war community. This guy is not someone I would have admired or followed then and I would be very reluctant to hire him today. Would I favor firing him because a newspaper article exposed his past ?????
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Old Jun 30, 2014, 10:25 AM   #24
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Just because someone made a poor hire in the past that doesn't mean that poor decision can't be corrected in the present. It happens every day in the business world. That is all that's happening.

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Old Jun 30, 2014, 10:54 AM   #25
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Just because someone made a poor hire in the past that doesn't mean that poor decision can't be corrected in the present. It happens every day in the business world. That is all that's happening.
OK but was it a poor hire because the employee didn't perform well or because the employer changed their mind about the employee? There is a significant difference.

What if the employer learned that the employee was a performer in a porn film 40 years ago. Would that be enough to get him fired?
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