Go Back   Fighting Illini Forums > General > Track 5 Chat

Welfare

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old Apr 19, 2014, 04:18 PM   #1
WizardBill
Illini optimist
WizardBill's Avatar
Location: Bradenton, FL
Posts: 1,413
I hear quite a bit of discussion about welfare. I hear about how the people are sitting on their a$$es collecting checks, not benefitting society. They are deadbeats. Worthless. Uneducated....

I have an interesting read about this:

http://thinkbynumbers.org/government...re-statistics/

Those CEOs are bleeding us dry!

__________________
Lost Cat:

Please return Dead and Alive to Edwin Schrodinger
WizardBill is offline Reply With Quote
Old Apr 19, 2014, 05:55 PM   #2
DaytonIllini
DaytonIllini's Avatar
Posts: 18,328
Quote:
Originally Posted by WizardBill View Post
I hear quite a bit of discussion about welfare. I hear about how the people are sitting on their a$$es collecting checks, not benefitting society. They are deadbeats. Worthless. Uneducated....

I have an interesting read about this:

http://thinkbynumbers.org/government...re-statistics/

Those CEOs are bleeding us dry!
Quote:
Note: I do not consider Medicaid to be included in the term ďwelfareĒ as it is used in common parlance. Typically, if one states that someone is ďon welfareĒ, they mean that the person is receiving direct financial aid from the government. If we included Medicaid in our definition of social welfare, we would also have to consider any service that the government pays for to be ďwelfareĒ. For instance, public roadways to individualsí homes would also be considered ďwelfareĒ under that expansive definition.
LOL

__________________
No nation can preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare.
-- James Madison
DaytonIllini is offline Reply With Quote
Old Apr 19, 2014, 06:03 PM   #3
zoggle101
Posts: 5,005
I've seen Medicare, and SS recipients referred to as on welfare. I can't agree with that(maybe I'm not informed ) or people who get grants for college.

__________________
#darrylkin
zoggle101 is offline Reply With Quote
Old Apr 19, 2014, 06:05 PM   #4
WizardBill
Illini optimist
WizardBill's Avatar
Location: Bradenton, FL
Posts: 1,413
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaytonIllini View Post
LOL
This is the part I found interesting:

"About $59 billion is spent on traditional social welfare programs. $92 billion is spent on corporate subsidies. So, the government spent 50% more on corporate welfare than it did on food stamps and housing assistance in 2006"

__________________
Lost Cat:

Please return Dead and Alive to Edwin Schrodinger
WizardBill is offline Reply With Quote
Old Apr 19, 2014, 06:06 PM   #5
WizardBill
Illini optimist
WizardBill's Avatar
Location: Bradenton, FL
Posts: 1,413
Also, you gave it an LOL. What is the difference?

__________________
Lost Cat:

Please return Dead and Alive to Edwin Schrodinger
WizardBill is offline Reply With Quote
Old Apr 19, 2014, 06:31 PM   #6
DaytonIllini
DaytonIllini's Avatar
Posts: 18,328
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoggle101 View Post
I've seen Medicare, and SS recipients referred to as on welfare. I can't agree with that(maybe I'm not informed ) or people who get grants for college.
If I give you $1 and you give me $4 would it be wrong to say that you are supporting me? People pay into Medicare and Social Security but for Medicare at least they suck out a whole lot more money than they paid in. I'm not sure if Social Security fits the same funding level. I don't think it does.

College grants are welfare.

__________________
No nation can preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare.
-- James Madison
DaytonIllini is offline Reply With Quote
Old Apr 19, 2014, 06:33 PM   #7
DaytonIllini
DaytonIllini's Avatar
Posts: 18,328
Quote:
Originally Posted by WizardBill View Post
Also, you gave it an LOL. What is the difference?
I don't support corporate welfare or crony capitalism. Want to see it in action? Check out Solyndra. It's pervasive in both parties. Amtrak etc. I was laughing at anyone suggesting that Medicaid isn't welfare. Free health insurance? How is that not welfare?

__________________
No nation can preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare.
-- James Madison
DaytonIllini is offline Reply With Quote
Old Apr 19, 2014, 06:57 PM   #8
CaptainHindsight
Location: Champaign
Posts: 408
uh, if you got a uh, business, uh, you didnt build that. someone else, uh, did. uh, someone built those roads and bridges, uh, and with out that, uh, you, uh, wouldnt have that business, so, uh, you didnt build it!
CaptainHindsight is offline Reply With Quote
Old Apr 19, 2014, 07:00 PM   #9
WizardBill
Illini optimist
WizardBill's Avatar
Location: Bradenton, FL
Posts: 1,413
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainHindsight View Post
uh, if you got a uh, business, uh, you didnt build that. someone else, uh, did. uh, someone built those roads and bridges, uh, and with out that, uh, you, uh, wouldnt have that business, so, uh, you didnt build it!
Nothing like out of context... Here is his actual quote:

"There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me ó because they want to give something back. They know they didnít ó look, if youíve been successful, you didnít get there on your own. You didnít get there on your own. Iím always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something ó there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there. (Applause.)

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If youíve got a business ó you didnít build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didnít get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we donít do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.

So we say to ourselves, ever since the founding of this country, you know what, there are some things we do better together. Thatís how we funded the GI Bill. Thatís how we created the middle class. Thatís how we built the Golden Gate Bridge or the Hoover Dam. Thatís how we invented the Internet. Thatís how we sent a man to the moon. We rise or fall together as one nation and as one people, and thatís the reason Iím running for President ó because I still believe in that idea. Youíre not on your own, weíre in this together."

__________________
Lost Cat:

Please return Dead and Alive to Edwin Schrodinger
WizardBill is offline Reply With Quote
Old Apr 19, 2014, 07:54 PM   #10
AHSIllini32
Posts: 8,107
Quote:
Originally Posted by WizardBill View Post
Nothing like out of context... Here is his actual quote:

"There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me ó because they want to give something back. They know they didnít ó look, if youíve been successful, you didnít get there on your own. You didnít get there on your own. Iím always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something ó there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there. (Applause.)

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If youíve got a business ó you didnít build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didnít get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we donít do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.

So we say to ourselves, ever since the founding of this country, you know what, there are some things we do better together. Thatís how we funded the GI Bill. Thatís how we created the middle class. Thatís how we built the Golden Gate Bridge or the Hoover Dam. Thatís how we invented the Internet. Thatís how we sent a man to the moon. We rise or fall together as one nation and as one people, and thatís the reason Iím running for President ó because I still believe in that idea. Youíre not on your own, weíre in this together."
It's too bad Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, and the rest of the lunatics at Fox News cherry picked certain quotes to give them something to complain about for a month straight.

__________________
AHSIllini32 is offline Reply With Quote
Old Apr 21, 2014, 04:21 PM   #11
Illiniaaron
Posts: 354
"I mean, imagine if everyone had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires." Huh? Have a fire in your house, pull the fire truck out of the garage. Sounds easy to me. Duh.
Illiniaaron is offline Reply With Quote
Old Apr 21, 2014, 07:30 PM   #12
DaytonIllini
DaytonIllini's Avatar
Posts: 18,328
Quote:
Originally Posted by Illiniaaron View Post
"I mean, imagine if everyone had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires." Huh? Have a fire in your house, pull the fire truck out of the garage. Sounds easy to me. Duh.
Someone clever might ask when the last time was that the federal government was fighting residential fires. The problem with the federal government isn't that government is unnecessary, it's that most of what government does can and should be done at the state level. Sure for catastrophes (hurricanes) and specialized rarely utilized services (investigating airline crashes) it makes enormous sense for the states to pool their resources.

Instead though what we get is, "teach kids this way or we're going to cut funds for your roads".

Government should set relatively low minimum standards but allow the states to jack them up significantly. Want a high minimum wage? Pass it at the State level.

__________________
No nation can preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare.
-- James Madison
DaytonIllini is offline Reply With Quote
Old Apr 21, 2014, 08:31 PM   #13
Illiniaaron
Posts: 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaytonIllini View Post
Someone clever might ask when the last time was that the federal government was fighting residential fires. The problem with the federal government isn't that government is unnecessary, it's that most of what government does can and should be done at the state level. Sure for catastrophes (hurricanes) and specialized rarely utilized services (investigating airline crashes) it makes enormous sense for the states to pool their resources.

Instead though what we get is, "teach kids this way or we're going to cut funds for your roads".

Government should set relatively low minimum standards but allow the states to jack them up significantly. Want a high minimum wage? Pass it at the State level.
I thought I was being clever, Dayton!
Illiniaaron is offline Reply With Quote
Old Apr 22, 2014, 06:56 AM   #14
pizzaman
pizzaman's Avatar
Location: Northwoods of Wisconsin
Posts: 2,561
Quote:
Originally Posted by Illiniaaron View Post
I thought I was being clever, Dayton!
You were. In response to Dayton, I have friends who worked for the US Forest Service. They were sent to battle forest fires as federal employees (I know that's not the same as a residence fire.) Unfortunately, one died 20-25 years ago while she was employed by the US Government fighting a forest fire. My two other friends in the forest service returned to Wisconsin unscathed.
pizzaman is offline Reply With Quote
Old Apr 22, 2014, 09:42 AM   #15
DaytonIllini
DaytonIllini's Avatar
Posts: 18,328
Quote:
Originally Posted by pizzaman View Post
You were. In response to Dayton, I have friends who worked for the US Forest Service. They were sent to battle forest fires as federal employees (I know that's not the same as a residence fire.) Unfortunately, one died 20-25 years ago while she was employed by the US Government fighting a forest fire. My two other friends in the forest service returned to Wisconsin unscathed.
Forest fires are a far cry from Fire Departments though. Forest fires cross state boundaries, can be awesome in their magnitude. It's exactly what the federal government should be involved in.

I was merely pointing out that Obama's silly response makes no sense in terms of Federal government or federal taxes. Schools are state run and almost entirely state/local funded. Roads are almost entirely funded and built by state and local dollars (aside from the interstates). Fire and police are state and local. So while a business owner may not have built it by himself, he did so in most cases with almost no input from the federal government.

The federal government has an outsized impact upon us for providing very little in the way of services.

__________________
No nation can preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare.
-- James Madison
DaytonIllini is offline Reply With Quote
Old Apr 22, 2014, 09:50 AM   #16
pizzaman
pizzaman's Avatar
Location: Northwoods of Wisconsin
Posts: 2,561
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaytonIllini View Post
The federal government has an outsized impact upon us for providing very little in the way of services.
I agree with your entire comment. I've been working for over 40 years now and the impact from the feds has become something I abhor so much that I've turned down government work to avoid all the non-productive work the fed projects create. State work isn't quite as bad but it has gotten close.
pizzaman is offline Reply With Quote
Old Apr 22, 2014, 09:55 AM   #17
DaytonIllini
DaytonIllini's Avatar
Posts: 18,328
Quote:
Originally Posted by pizzaman View Post
I agree with your entire comment. I've been working for over 40 years now and the impact from the feds has become something I abhor so much that I've turned down government work to avoid all the non-productive work the fed projects create. State work isn't quite as bad but it has gotten close.
Agreed. A good friend of mine makes high end tool boxes. They cost a lot of money and are for professional mechanics and to hold tool and die "things" (I don't understand what they put in a box that costs $3K but someone buys the things). They are really nice, incredibly durable and operate more smoothly than most custom cabinetry would.

He was going to bid on an Army contract to make very similar tool boxes. They require tolerances that are comparable to those found in jet fighters or in a watch. His bid would have had to have been around $30K PER toolbox to have that level of precision. He figured he'd have no chance so he dropped out of the bidding. As it turns out, he'd have won the bid. Our government spends THAT much on a tool chest for the Army.

There is a reason that people are beginning to refer to Washington DC as Mordor on the Potomac.

__________________
No nation can preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare.
-- James Madison
DaytonIllini is offline Reply With Quote
Old Apr 22, 2014, 10:04 AM   #18
pizzaman
pizzaman's Avatar
Location: Northwoods of Wisconsin
Posts: 2,561
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaytonIllini View Post
Agreed. A good friend of mine makes high end tool boxes. They cost a lot of money and are for professional mechanics and to hold tool and die "things" (I don't understand what they put in a box that costs $3K but someone buys the things).
Nothing to do with the feds but, my father was a tool and die maker. When he died my mother showed me where he kept his good tools and told me to take them. It's a great looking quarter sawn oak chest filled with "instruments." It takes two hands to lift with the two handles and I can't identify half of the tools but its a great memory of my father. I'm sure it didn't cost $1000 but it is felt lined, it has multiple drawers and compartments and there's a place for everything.
pizzaman is offline Reply With Quote
Old Apr 22, 2014, 11:18 AM   #19
AzIlliniFan
Posts: 2,689
Quote:
Originally Posted by pizzaman View Post
Nothing to do with the feds but, my father was a tool and die maker. When he died my mother showed me where he kept his good tools and told me to take them. It's a great looking quarter sawn oak chest filled with "instruments." It takes two hands to lift with the two handles and I can't identify half of the tools but its a great memory of my father. I'm sure it didn't cost $1000 but it is felt lined, it has multiple drawers and compartments and there's a place for everything.
Most likely a Gerstner (Diamond mirror in the lid?), I've had a couple of them over the years. Some of them do sell sell for 1k+ nowadays.

__________________
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss
AzIlliniFan is offline Reply With Quote
Old Today, 07:05 PM   #20
Bob Christiansen
Bob Christiansen's Avatar
Location: Phi Kappa Psi, 4th & Chalmers, a few years ago...Now? Weeki Wachee, FL
Posts: 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by pizzaman View Post
Nothing to do with the feds but, my father was a tool and die maker. When he died my mother showed me where he kept his good tools and told me to take them. It's a great looking quarter sawn oak chest filled with "instruments." It takes two hands to lift with the two handles and I can't identify half of the tools but its a great memory of my father. I'm sure it didn't cost $1000 but it is felt lined, it has multiple drawers and compartments and there's a place for everything.
They're called "Machinist's Chests". Every good machinist had one. Kennedy makes real nice ones in metal.

But since robotics have taken over machining, we don't need them anymore...
Bob Christiansen is offline Reply With Quote
Reply


« Previous Thread | General Chat | Next Thread »
Thread Tools

Forum Jump