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Old Jan 15, 2013, 09:39 PM   #26
chief3469
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Originally Posted by RecLeagueHero View Post
We may not agree on how much the previous regime damaged these guys confidence, but I totally agree with this. It's frightening actually.

Some of it is talent/skills. I think DJ and Griffey are both really limited players. With Paul, I think what HOC has said speaks volumes.
can you refresh my memory?
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 09:39 PM   #27
sdfidaho
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Originally Posted by radiodj View Post
That's a bit unfair IMO. I agree that TG isn't playing well, but to say that he's the biggest reason overlooks so many other things. The lack of defense that this team plays, the awful rebounding, the shooting problems they've had for the better part of a month (minus the tOSU game). I realize that TG is part of these problems, but they would still exist to some extent whether he were playing or not.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 09:49 PM   #28
IlliniFreak7
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Griffey and dj have absolutely lost it from 3 and it has really slowed us down. We need to see some changes at the 4 and ill be glad for at least some rebounding. Also want to see Henry and Bertrand getting more minutes even.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 10:02 PM   #29
onebrainmob
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Like i said after the purdue game Shaw needs mins, all he needs is some PT.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 10:05 PM   #30
ct3illini
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Originally Posted by onebrainmob View Post
Like i said after the purdue game Shaw needs mins, all he needs is some PT.
It's always nice to see someone who has waited patiently finally get his chance. Really hope he can take off.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 10:13 PM   #31
Illinifn79
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What this team needs is a Luke Johnson type guy. Dont need to score but do the dirty work. If he can be that guy the dynamics of this team could really change.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 04:02 AM   #32
IlliniFandom
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Last year it was constant lip service to the fact that effort=playing time. This year it feels more real that if I give energy...if I give effort..if I make the most of my opportunity..I will be rewarded! That's a real nice culture to have because it inspires everyone to work hard. Give credit to Groce for making it a reality. Too bad Rudy rudiger never played for a Groce like character
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 06:31 AM   #33
orangeBlue
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"rebounding, what a concept."

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Originally Posted by radiodj View Post
That's a bit unfair IMO. I agree that TG isn't playing well, but to say that he's the biggest reason overlooks so many other things. The lack of defense that this team plays, the awful rebounding, the shooting problems they've had for the better part of a month (minus the tOSU game). I realize that TG is part of these problems, but they would still exist to some extent whether he were playing or not.

Agreed. But it is not unrealistic for someone who is 6.9 230 to grab a few rebounds. Paul, Bertrand, Richarson, and Egwu, all get more rebounds than he does. I imagine anyone who want to rebound on this team, will be getting some playing time.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 06:34 AM   #34
orangeBlue
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If 4 years of Big Ten basketball has not solved his "issues" they are not going to get solved. Gee I have to remember this is a basketball forum, not Oprah.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 06:41 AM   #35
RecLeagueHero
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Originally Posted by chief3469 View Post
can you refresh my memory?
HOC talked about Paul's mentality, being laid back, and his approach to things. Also, him not being able to handle success well...letting it swell his head.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 07:01 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by ranma08 View Post
I honestly believe that TG is THE biggest reason we're doing terrible right now. I hope he plays 10-15 minutes per game for the rest of the year. Start Henry and bring MS off the bench.
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Originally Posted by IlliniFreak7 View Post
Griffey and dj have absolutely lost it from 3 and it has really slowed us down. We need to see some changes at the 4 and ill be glad for at least some rebounding. Also want to see Henry and Bertrand getting more minutes even.
Groce was not very happy with Henry at all after the Wisconsin game.

Why do we want more minutes for Myke Henry? What has he done to warrant more minutes? I have not seen much at all.

I guess I can buy the argument that more playing time would correlate to better results. Who knows, I just have not seen the Myke Henry that everyone else is seeing or expecting to see so far. Luckily he is still young though.

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Old Jan 16, 2013, 07:44 AM   #37
rtbritt
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Originally Posted by Kramer116 View Post
Groce was not very happy with Henry at all after the Wisconsin game.

Why do we want more minutes for Myke Henry? What has he done to warrant more minutes? I have not seen much at all.

I guess I can buy the argument that more playing time would correlate to better results. Who knows, I just have not seen the Myke Henry that everyone else is seeing or expecting to see so far. Luckily he is still young though.
I'll second that!

I think what it comes down to is this: Griffey obviously isn't the answer if he isn't shooting the 3 ball well like he was earlier in the season.

So what are our options? Bertrand to play the 4? He hasn't all year. Henry to play the 4? He hasn't done anything to deserve that spot. How about Shaw? There probably is a reason he hasn't played all year.

So what do we do?? I would think Groce is kind of in the same boat. He knows that when Griffey is hitting 3s, he is our best option. He can't hit 3s if 1. his confidence is lost (sitting on bench would do that) and 2. if he is sitting on the bench.

So I think he is probably leaning on throwing other guys out there and seeing what happens, like we saw with Shaw. But I don't think we have a easy solution here.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 07:54 AM   #38
IlliNYC
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Originally Posted by ranma08 View Post
I honestly believe that TG is THE biggest reason we're doing terrible right now. I hope he plays 10-15 minutes per game for the rest of the year. Start Henry and bring MS off the bench.
Yes. He was the biggest reason for our early season success & his slump has coincided pretty directly to our slump. We're a much tougher team to guard when he's hitting shots at a high rate.

I hope he finds it again b/c I'm not sure Shaw or MH give us that same dimension.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 08:59 AM   #39
beaboutillini74
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Originally Posted by ranma08 View Post
I honestly believe that TG is THE biggest reason we're doing terrible right now. I hope he plays 10-15 minutes per game for the rest of the year. Start Henry and bring MS off the bench.
It is interesting to me that he is a big reason why we are doing so terrible right now. He is also the biggest reason we got off to a great start. Now that the threes stopped falling Groce has to do the right thing in starting Shaw. It may work or it may not but he has to try something different. We all know that the previous coaches lived and died by their upperclassmen and that didn't work out so well. I don't have a problem with Groce giving his players the freedom to keep shooting threes to a point. In this case I think it is best to let TG come off the bench until he gets his shot going again. We need to get our three point shooting going again and I don't want to hear excuses on how the defences are so much better in the B1G. Other teams have shot the heck out of the three and we should figure it out as well.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 09:02 AM   #40
armo859
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Originally Posted by ILL Thunder View Post
It better, we need to turn this around now! If we repeat the the collapse of last year we are doomed not only in regards to making the tourney, but in respect to recruiting as well.
Umm, negatively impact recruiting? What year? We already have a top 10 class in 2013 + Rayvonte Rice. And the start of a class of 2014. But mark my words, this team is not going to collapse like Bruce's. Groce won't let it. And as long as we get into the tournament, we will win a game or two this year. We really need to stop letting BW's collapse color our perception. Groce is the real deal.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 09:17 AM   #41
Symmooth
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Originally Posted by -josh- View Post
Glad to see somebody on the team stepping up, maybe this will be a spark to light a fire under the seniors butts.
Not looking back, but it's great to have a coach who doesn't bury people on the bench once BT season starts.

I feel bad for TG, but good luck Shaw, show us what you got.

Last edited by Symmooth; Jan 16, 2013 at 09:20 AM.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 09:20 AM   #42
IlliniJim20
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Originally Posted by IlliniFandom View Post
Last year it was constant lip service to the fact that effort=playing time. This year it feels more real that if I give energy...if I give effort..if I make the most of my opportunity..I will be rewarded! That's a real nice culture to have because it inspires everyone to work hard. Give credit to Groce for making it a reality. Too bad Rudy rudiger never played for a Groce like character
Based on what? We have heard people who work hard in practice will be rewarded. We have heard of epode who have worked hard before (Shaw) who get rewarded for one game.

I belive Shaw will be in the oration v. NU, after that?????
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 09:29 AM   #43
ILL Thunder
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Originally Posted by armo859 View Post
Umm, negatively impact recruiting? What year? We already have a top 10 class in 2013 + Rayvonte Rice. And the start of a class of 2014. But mark my words, this team is not going to collapse like Bruce's. Groce won't let it. And as long as we get into the tournament, we will win a game or two this year. We really need to stop letting BW's collapse color our perception. Groce is the real deal.
I totally agree with you, what I was referring to was finally getting that program changing recruit or recruits that we have narrowly missed on recently.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 09:42 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by brapp33 View Post
He really can't be worse then McLaurin. At least he can shoot.
McLaurin's best attribute is the fact that he is very rarely out of position.
He's savvy and plays smart and within himself.
Shaw still needs to learn that.
Honestly, I can't believe anyone thinks that he can shoot.
I know he does shoot, especially given any daylight from the arc, but he really shouldn't.
He's shown an ability to rebound at both ends.
He could get 10 points a game from garbage points, steals during pressing situations, running the floor in transition, knocking down an occasional 15-ft jumper, and making free throws.
This team has enough 3-point shooters without Shaw needing to get his.
It's disappointing that someone his size has no post game.
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Originally Posted by Illinifn79 View Post
What this team needs is a Luke Johnson type guy. Dont need to score but do the dirty work. If he can be that guy the dynamics of this team could really change.
I've thought that for the last several years.
Shaw and Langford could and should fill that "goon" role.
Actually, anyone hungry for playing time should start with that -- hustling, diving on the floor, playing defense, and sacrificing personal glory to do anything they can to contribute to the success of the team.
The worst thing is, not many are willing to do this or figure it out too late.
This team has a serious deficiency in the "mean" and "nasty" categories.
I think we see glimpses of it from Abrams.
Maybe we'll see it from Rice next year.
I'd love to see it from Egwu and Ibby.
Ibby especially has the size and strength to come in and bruise some guys, but I don't think he has really found his niche.

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Last edited by Foo G; Jan 16, 2013 at 09:45 AM.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 10:34 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Illinifn79 View Post
What this team needs is a Luke Johnson type guy. Dont need to score but do the dirty work. If he can be that guy the dynamics of this team could really change.
no, we need a guy like Vitor Oladipo - he is that guy for IU .. it would be nice to 1 guy on the roster like that

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Old Jan 16, 2013, 01:47 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by ranma08 View Post
I honestly believe that TG is THE biggest reason we're doing terrible right now. I hope he plays 10-15 minutes per game for the rest of the year. Start Henry and bring MS off the bench.
I wouldn't say he's the biggest reason we're doing poorly,but he does shy away from shooting in times of pressure, so a good "just do it" pep talk is in major order. The more it happens, the more he'll be criticized for it, the more it's going to tweak him out. I'm not giving up on him, but I am interested in seeing Henry out there for, at the very least, future practice. Also, the 6000 Tisdale diet would be good for Nanna and McLaurin. Having a hard time putting on weight is the best problem ever, sigh of jealousy.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 03:59 PM   #47
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I wouldn't say he's the biggest reason we're doing poorly,but he does shy away from shooting in times of pressure, so a good "just do it" pep talk is in major order. The more it happens, the more he'll be criticized for it, the more it's going to tweak him out. I'm not giving up on him, but I am interested in seeing Henry out there for, at the very least, future practice. Also, the 6000 Tisdale diet would be good for Nanna and McLaurin. Having a hard time putting on weight is the best problem ever, sigh of jealousy.
Henry has provided very little production in the minutes he has received.
His on-court performance this season has not warranted more playing time.
The time for him to develop is during the spring and summer, not during Big 10 conference games in a season where a new coaching staff is trying to instill their mark on the program and get the team to the NCAA tournament.

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Old Jan 16, 2013, 04:31 PM   #48
alexander58
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Originally Posted by brapp33 View Post
He really can't be worse then McLaurin. At least he can shoot.
McLaurin has been helpful. I hate to think what Illinois record would be without his contributions. I still expect him to take open 15 ft jumpers. Ill live with the outcome (make or miss).
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 06:55 PM   #49
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McLaurin has been helpful. I hate to think what Illinois record would be without his contributions. I still expect him to take open 15 ft jumpers. Ill live with the outcome (make or miss).
He really should not shoot the ball unless he is dunking it.

42% shooter. Awful. 51% FT shooter. Horrible.

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Old Jan 16, 2013, 09:40 PM   #50
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He really should not shoot the ball unless he is dunking it.

42% shooter. Awful. 51% FT shooter. Horrible.
It is honestly shocking that a 51% FT shooter makes anything from the floor. Think that indicates that he does indeed use some judgment when taking a shot from the floor. Maybe not enough, but some judgment.

51% from the stripe, that position doesn't change and you are not contested, so that sucks. So, he is not a good shooter.

But evidently he shows some discretion.
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