Global Warming

[Illest]

Originally Posted by Illini1956

Everyone knows weathermen are never right.

Ah! Weather is less predictable than climate, in the same way that I can't predict a coin toss, but I can predict the result of 10,000 coin tosses.

[KBLEE]

Originally Posted by Illest

To clarify: your previous post suggests that you believe you are a better judge of what data is appropriate than scientists are. Is that accurate?

The data has already been called into question by many in the scientific community.

[Illini1956]

In the course of history have we had a number of ice ages and global warm ups without any human intervention. Right?? Yes or No. Yes or No?

[KBLEE]

Originally Posted by Illini1956

In the course of history have we had a number of ice ages and global warm ups without any human intervention. Right?? Yes or No. Yes or No?

It was all of the flatulating dinosaurs.

[Illest]

Originally Posted by KBLEE

The data has already been called into question by many in the scientific community.

In other words, you're not on #1; you're on #2 -- you don't believe that it's really such a small group of scientists who disagree with the consensus. I disagree with you.

You know how to resolve the argument? Call some scientists! Seriously, pick any major university, call some people, and report back.

Until you do so, it's pointless to argue about this; it's like arguing about how big a room is without taking out a measuring tape.

[Illest]

Originally Posted by Illini1956

In the course of history have we had a number of ice ages and global warm ups without any human intervention. Right?? Yes or No. Yes or No?

Yes, due to Milankovitch cycles. And, in fact, those changes in climate led to mass extinctions.

[Illest]

Ok, I've said what I wanted to say, and I have things I need to go do. We can continue this conversation if you're willing to risk hearing something that you didn't think you'd hear by going and making some phone calls.

[Illini1956]

Originally Posted by KBLEE

It was all of the flatulating dinosaurs.

They were probably taxed to death, just like the farcical proposed animal methane tax.




A bit like all of our industries that are going under from too many taxes and regulations.

[Illini1956]

Volcanos and sun spot cycle have a lot more impact on the environment than any human factor.

[KBLEE]

Originally Posted by Illini1956

Volcanos and sun spot cycle have a lot more impact on the environment than any human factor.

Ding-ding-ding...we have a winner!!!

[rsillini]

Originally Posted by KBLEE

Ding-ding-ding...we have a winner!!!

Links Please You make your arguments based on general statements. I would like to make mine on facts. Credable studies done by credible scientists in the field. Don't be like 4-ever and dismiss the information based on who provides it or where it comes from. I read the Pravda article and stand by my earlier comments. It is not a scientific study. It is an article written by a guy who cherry picked data from several studies to support his argument. Further investigation to determine who this guy is revealed several articles written for Provda (including one blaming Bush as the perpatrator of 911). I could find nothing as to his actual scientific credentials.

[rsillini]

Originally Posted by fightingillini fan 4-ever

Illest, Sorry I dont have the link. I only caught it in passing the other day while I had the news on. Sorry. I did hear it correctly though.


now ne nice rsillini. see my above post. and by the way, I dont believe anything socal has to offer. I dont read the national enquirer or star or NY Times to get my news.

How convenient.

[fightingillini fan 4-ever]

Originally Posted by rsillini

How convenient.

Do you have anything of sunstance to contribute? Socal doesnt offer anything of value or importance. I dont enjoy reading Star, National Enquirer, Huffington Post. Garbage like that.

[socalini]

Originally Posted by fightingillini fan 4-ever

Do you have anything of sunstance to contribute? Socal doesnt offer anything of value or importance. I dont enjoy reading Star, National Enquirer, Huffington Post. Garbage like that.

You don't know anything about me other than I don't agree with your viewpoint on anything other than loving Illini Basketball. I've never read any of the sources you name above, nor have I ever indicated anything that would lead one to believe that I do. I get my information from multiple sources and examine their motivations and sources before deciding what I believe to be the truth. Pretty cowardly to try and call me out when I'm not even involved in the discussion, but that's what I would expect from you. Over the years here I've tried to offer my personal insight into issues, but you just spout the same talking points over and over again. It's really a bore, and not the least bit intellectually stimulating.

Now go ahead and insult me personally and question my credibility, since I have differing viewpoints than you. Despite the power you think you wield, it doesn't effect me in the least.

[Irish]

Originally Posted by Illest

In other words, you're not on #1; you're on #2 -- you don't believe that it's really such a small group of scientists who disagree with the consensus. I disagree with you.

You know how to resolve the argument? Call some scientists! Seriously, pick any major university, call some people, and report back.

Until you do so, it's pointless to argue about this; it's like arguing about how big a room is without taking out a measuring tape.

I in fact took an atmosphere class my freshman year at NIU and my professor was very careful about what he said in terms of "global warming". Never once did he say that it is for CERTAIN that human beings are the ones causing the "warming" and he made sure that he pointed out inconsistencies in Al Gore's movie and other Hollywood films. He also pointed out the fact of how complicated of a process it is. Which I mentioned before, when the snow and ice melt it creates cloud cover, which in return limits the amount of sunlight that can enter the earth, which then cools the earth! What a shocker.

In regards to the Pravda article that was posted earlier and the agenda of the "evil" oil companies, do you not think that someone, somewhere will have something to gain by implementing these strict environmental policies? Lets think about this one for a second. Since you have already made it up in your mind that FOX isn't a credible source to get information and only spews nonsense and lies, lets shift our focus to a "sincere" news organization that reports "facts" from the scientific community and global warming. Lets take MSNBC for example. They only report truth in an unbiased manner with clearly no agenda what so ever, right? Who owns MSNBC? Ah, that's right, General Electric does. What does General Electric make? Lightbulbs! Clearly GE would have nothing to gain from environmental initiatives that mandate us implementing fluorescent light bulbs, would they?

[Illini1956]

Global climate:

1883 Krakatoa vocano exploded:
IThe year following the Krakatoa eruption, the average global temperatures fell by as much as 1.2 degrees Celsius. The weather patterns were a mess for years, and the temperatures did not return to normal until 1888 five years later.

The volcano eruption ejected an unusually large amount of sulfur dioxide levels in the clouds. The clouds reflected more incoming light from the sun than usual, and cooled the entire planet for years.

Simlar eruptions have been speculated to potentially be a cause of dinosar extinction.

Look it up yourself. Plenty of links on sun spots and volcano activity chamging the environment.

[fightingillini fan 4-ever]

Originally Posted by socalini

You don't know anything about me other than I don't agree with your viewpoint on anything other than loving Illini Basketball. I've never read any of the sources you name above, nor have I ever indicated anything that would lead one to believe that I do. I get my information from multiple sources and examine their motivations and sources before deciding what I believe to be the truth. Pretty cowardly to try and call me out when I'm not even involved in the discussion, but that's what I would expect from you. Over the years here I've tried to offer my personal insight into issues, but you just spout the same talking points over and over again. It's really a bore, and not the least bit intellectually stimulating.

Now go ahead and insult me personally and question my credibility, since I have differing viewpoints than you. Despite the power you think you wield, it doesn't effect me in the least.

You joined the discusssion on Jan 13, 2009 at 12:21 pm in the President Bush legacy thread. Go back and re-read. Thats called research. A concpept you might try sometime. Do you know what you post or is it just a case of selective memory. Who knows, it might just be a case of not being able to recognize and tell the truth. Now that we know your pattern of posting we shall move on.

You are correct, according to your previous posts and frequent attacks on me it is evident that we dont and wont agree on anything other than Illini sports. I am proud of that. Now go ahead and continue with your assualts. The more you talk the better I feel.

Now whats up with this "power over me" thing. Don't try to analyze me. Your scaring me. I never have liked fruitloops and seriously doubt I ever will. So playing your game, I guess if I have some power over you then you have allowed that to happen. Shame on you. vooodoo wooo voodoo

[socalini]

Originally Posted by fightingillini fan 4-ever

You joined the discusssion on Jan 13, 2009 at 12:21 pm in the President Bush legacy thread. Go back and re-read. Thats called research. A concpept you might try sometime. Do you know what you post or is it just a case of selective memory. Who knows, it might just be a case of not being able to recognize and tell the truth. Now that we know your pattern of posting we shall move on.

You are correct, according to your previous posts and frequent attacks on me it is evident that we dont and wont agree on anything other than Illini sports. I am proud of that. Now go ahead and continue with your assualts. The more you talk the better I feel.

Now whats up with this "power over me" thing. Don't try to analyze me. Your scaring me. I never have liked fruitloops and seriously doubt I ever will. So playing your game, I guess if I have some power over you then you have allowed that to happen. Shame on you. vooodoo wooo voodoo

I didn't say anything about "power over me". I said the "power you think you wield". As usual, you're trying to spin someone elses comments into what you want them to mean.

You've always gone for the personal insult as a way to make your point. I'm not impressed. It's not the way to exchange ideas and learn from one another, which is the point of these types of discussions. You simply state that because someone doesn't feel the same way as you that they're some kind of "fruitloop". I didn't start responding in kind until 9000 posts of the same old same BS. You clearly think you're smarter than anyone who thinks differently than you. I have different ideas than you and they're just as valid as yours. If you think I'm a fruitloop, that's your perogative. But I think the conversation suffers from your constant attempt to disparage posters who think differently than you. If it was worth my time (it's not) I could go back and find the time when you turned on me, and it didn't have anything to do with me insulting you. It was merely me presenting my take on an issue. Before that, you had actually once claimed to have stood up and applauded one of my posts defending Weber's "bad" recruiting. But man, once you turn on someone, you take it way too seriously.

I think Dan has put together a great site for Illini fans to get together and discuss basketball and other issues. It would be even better if certain posters didn't use it to bash anyone who thinks differently than them.

[fightingillini fan 4-ever]

Originally Posted by socalini

I didn't say anything about "power over me". I said the "power you think you wield". As usual, you're trying to spin someone elses comments into what you want them to mean.

You've always gone for the personal insult as a way to make your point. I'm not impressed. It's not the way to exchange ideas and learn from one another, which is the point of these types of discussions. You simply state that because someone doesn't feel the same way as you that they're some kind of "fruitloop". I didn't start responding in kind until 9000 posts of the same old same BS. You clearly think you're smarter than anyone who thinks differently than you. I have different ideas than you and they're just as valid as yours. If you think I'm a fruitloop, that's your perogative. But I think the conversation suffers from your constant attempt to disparage posters who think differently than you. If it was worth my time (it's not) I could go back and find the time when you turned on me, and it didn't have anything to do with me insulting you. It was merely me presenting my take on an issue. Before that, you had actually once claimed to have stood up and applauded one of my posts defending Weber's "bad" recruiting. But man, once you turn on someone, you take it way too seriously.

I think Dan has put together a great site for Illini fans to get together and discuss basketball and other issues. It would be even better if certain posters didn't use it to bash anyone who thinks differently than them.

You know socal, the bashing goes both ways. You dont like it and I dont like it. I have nothing personally against you. I have the same right to post my opinions as you even if they are said multiple times and you dont agree with them. I dont ever recall turning on you. If I applauded one of your posts, I meant it. If I was a little rough, well we all are at times but I apologize. I suggest you go back and read your own posts to me in ref to my political views. I did and I observed several posts of your towards me that were insulting. I know you dont like my politicalviews but if the left can keep singing how great Obama is why cant I counteract. Thats debating and discussing. Were not always going to get along.

Peace.

[socalini]

Originally Posted by fightingillini fan 4-ever

You know socal, the bashing goes both ways. You dont like it and I dont like it. I have nothing personally against you. I have the same right to post my opinions as you even if they are said multiple times and you dont agree with them. I dont ever recall turning on you. If I applauded one of your posts, I meant it. If I was a little rough, well we all are at times but I apologize. I suggest you go back and read your own posts to me in ref to my political views. I did and I observed several posts of your towards me that were insulting. I know you dont like my politicalviews but if the left can keep singing how great Obama is why cant I counteract. Thats debating and discussing. Were not always going to get along.

Peace.

Peace. Go Illini!

[Illini1956]

I see on internet Methane was discovered on Mars. I guess we better tax the martians.

[Illest]

Originally Posted by Irish

I in fact took an atmosphere class my freshman year at NIU and my professor was very careful about what he said in terms of "global warming". Never once did he say that it is for CERTAIN that human beings are the ones causing the "warming" and he made sure that he pointed out inconsistencies in Al Gore's movie and other Hollywood films. He also pointed out the fact of how complicated of a process it is. Which I mentioned before, when the snow and ice melt it creates cloud cover, which in return limits the amount of sunlight that can enter the earth, which then cools the earth! What a shocker.

In regards to the Pravda article that was posted earlier and the agenda of the "evil" oil companies, do you not think that someone, somewhere will have something to gain by implementing these strict environmental policies? Lets think about this one for a second. Since you have already made it up in your mind that FOX isn't a credible source to get information and only spews nonsense and lies, lets shift our focus to a "sincere" news organization that reports "facts" from the scientific community and global warming. Lets take MSNBC for example. They only report truth in an unbiased manner with clearly no agenda what so ever, right? Who owns MSNBC? Ah, that's right, General Electric does. What does General Electric make? Lightbulbs! Clearly GE would have nothing to gain from environmental initiatives that mandate us implementing fluorescent light bulbs, would they?

Irish, two things:

--First of all, your professor was absolutely correct. Scientifically, there's no way to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that humans are causing the changes in temperature we see. And, in fact, Al Gore and others have been guilty of taking shortcuts in arguing their points. Climate is a messy subject.

However, I'd be willing to bet that your professor believes that, on balance, the evidence on climate change strongly suggests that humans are most likely the largest contributors. I'd appreciate it if you'd email him to confirm if this is or is not his opinion.

--Furthermore, I think you're jumping to incorrect conclusions about where I'm learning what I'm learning. I don't put a lot of faith in MSNBC, or, on the topic of science, in most any TV station. The best way to figure out what scientists believe is to talk to scientists. I've done so, and I've drawn my conclusions from those conversations.

In this case, the information that I've acquired from talking to real-life experts and from looking through peer-reviewed journals makes me suspicious of news sources whose reporting, I believe, misrepresents reality. Fox is one of those sources. The Pravda article ignores everything that climate scientists have learned over the last half century, which I think is the sort of journalistic integrity that you'd expect from the mouthpiece of the Russian government.

I ask you to do two things. First, seriously, don't dispute that scientists overwhelmingly believe that humans are the primary driver of climate change unless you're willing to personally seek out scientists. And, second, please explain why, even if only 90% of scientists believed that climate change is anthropogenic, that would justify not doing anything.

[fightingillini fan 4-ever]

Originally Posted by Illini1956

I see on internet Methane was discovered on Mars. I guess we better tax the martians.

dont know what happened, my post is gone. Screwed that up.

here ya go 56 in ref to your post. I couldnt get the link to pop up but go to http://townhall.com
and at the bottom of the page will be an article entitled Debate over: It's freezing. The article was written by columnist David Hardsanyi.

[fightingillini fan 4-ever]

Originally Posted by socalini

Peace. Go Illini!

Yes..Go Illini!!!

[Illini1956]

I was disappointed tonight to see a sign that said the outdoor pool is temporarily out of order.