2017 Coaching Carousel

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#6,026      

Obelix

Obelix
Obelix
TEYPAY said:
Recruiting... even in basketball... offers are made to sophomores and juniors ALL the time... hmmm I would offer you a scholarship but I don't have a contract for then but if I do, I would love for you to join me... don't think that would work.
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The contract is not really an issue, no matter what the decision. The contract is between the coach and the university, describes financial legal terms, and even within those, it is mostly the guarantees and buyouts that matter. Groce is in no position to dictate those terms, so it does not matter.

As far as recruiting, I have been around AAU Div. I recruits for many years, and recruits don't really know the actual terms of the contract. You think that last year's recruits signed because based on Groce's contract they knew he was going to be there for 2-3 years? Huh? And next year's recruits recruits will not because he only has 2 years left from the time they sign?

Whether they perceive a coach is safe is a different story but the actual contract, even if Groce is extended, will not be much of an issue. Recruits know very well that a coach can get fired, no matter how may years are left on his contract.
 
#6,031      

TownieMatt

T
CU Expat
Chicago
TownieMatt
Obelix said:
The contract is not really an issue, no matter what the decision. The contract is between the coach and the university, describes financial legal terms, and even within those, it is mostly the guarantees and buyouts that matter. Groce is in no position to dictate those terms, so it does not matter.

As far as recruiting, I have been around AAU Div. I recruits for many years, and recruits don't really know the actual terms of the contract. You think that last year's recruits signed because based on Groce's contract they knew he was going to be there for 2-3 years? Huh? And next year's recruits recruits will not because he only has 2 years left from the time they sign?

Whether they perceive a coach is safe is a different story but the actual contract, even if Groce is extended, will not be much of an issue. Recruits know very well that a coach can get fired, no matter how may years are left on his contract.
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I see your point that recruits aren't contract lawyers, but surely a contract situation like that just leads to negative recruiting by other coaches and locks in the perception that the coach is on the hot seat.
 
#6,032      

Obelix

Obelix
Obelix
TownieMatt said:
I see your point that recruits aren't contract lawyers, but surely a contract situation like that just leads to negative recruiting by other coaches and locks in the perception that the coach is on the hot seat.
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I think you need to read my post again, as I said, the perception of whether a coach is safe, negative recruiting, or being on the hot seat have very little to do with the contract. If Groce had 3 years remaining in his existing contract (rather than 2), would that have made much difference to recruits? No. If Groce receives a contract extension for 2 years, even without guarantees, recruits will perceive that he is safe? Of course not. The fact that Weber's contract had hefty guarantees (a terrible financial decision by Guenther that we ended up paying 3 years after his firing) affected recruiting? No, ended up with an empty 2012 class.

What matters in the contract is financial terms between Groce and UI, mainly guarantees and buyouts, and Groce is really in a "take it or leave" situation even if offered.
 
#6,033      

TownieMatt

T
CU Expat
Chicago
TownieMatt
Obelix said:
I think you need to read my post again, as I said, the perception of whether a coach is safe, negative recruiting, or being on the hot seat have very little to do with the contract. If Groce had 3 years remaining in his existing contract (rather than 2), would that have made much difference to recruits? No. If Groce receives a contract extension for 2 years, even without guarantees, recruits will perceive that he is safe? Of course not. The fact that Weber's contract had hefty guarantees (a terrible financial decision by Guenther that we ended up paying 3 years after his firing) affected recruiting? No, ended up with an empty 2012 class.

What matters in the contract is financial terms between Groce and UI, mainly guarantees and buyouts, and Groce is really in a "take it or leave" situation even if offered.
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I see what you mean, but here's where I think our opinions differ:

- You're saying that a coach can have a long-term contract and still be perceived as on the hot seat, which negatively effects recruiting. In that situation the length of the contract is irrelevant. -- I agree.

- I'm saying that having an extremely short term contract -- like the one Groce would have if retain and not extended -- is bound to effect recruiting because it makes absolutely clear that his position is not safe. Therefore in that situation the contract length does matter a great deal.
 
#6,034      

PostersLastStand

P
Wayne County, IL
PostersLastStand
peace davids said:
But distance plays a huge role if we are selling, stay close to home, let your family come see you play, etc. etc. People from Purdue, Notre Dame, etc. will use that to counter our recruiting pitches all the time. There are positives and negatives all over, and distance from home is one of those factors.

And don't forget the negative aspect of Illinois. Look at Jabari Parker - dude grew up in Illinois and with all the negatives in Chicago - he just wanted to get OUT. My wife was the same way, a downstater that couldn't wait to get out of Illinois. Works both ways.
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Again, Chicago has never been loyal to any in state university, never. The worse of it, it was rumored, their high school coaches were taking money for influencing them to go to the highest bidder under the guise it was the best fit. AAU ball is now mostly in control of that, rumored. Another thing that influenced the instate, and to a degree, Chicago kids was the removal of the High School State Tournament out of Champaign to Bloomington. Back to another thing no way was Jabari Parker ever coming here.
 
#6,035      

Obelix

Obelix
Obelix
TownieMatt said:
- I'm saying that having an extremely short term contract -- like the one Groce would have if retain and not extended -- is bound to effect recruiting because it makes absolutely clear that his position is not safe. Therefore in that situation the contract length does matter a great deal.
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Not much of an issue, because the University can easily extend for 1-2 years based on their own terms, without hefty guarantees and buyouts, and it will make zero difference.

This is not a binary decision as many posters on this board make it sound, i.e., fire or extend and offer a multi-year contract with hefty raises, guarantees, and buyouts. The contract is not a big issue in this decision, other factors are.
 
#6,036      

Kathy

K
Kathy
I'm predicting, from a gut feeling only, that Groce will stay another year!!!
 
#6,037      

TCTORNADO

TCTORNADO
TCTORNADO
The MW to Phoenix Suns rumor is probably the reason JKat said he would not be UI HC. Earl Watson is entrenched @ Phoenix.
 
#6,039      

Illinoy

I
Illinoy
The amount of misconception about the Chicago area on this board is almost as perplexing as those that believe we need another Bruce Weber type hire - meaning just get a mid-major guy as a good Xs and Os operator and everything will work itself out.

To ignore Chicago and depend upon some "almighty system" would be the definition of insane. In today's times, systems mean less and less since the college game is younger on average with more transfers meaning more players in new systems on average. You MUST have great players to win. Get a coach that can recruit and make sure he has a solid system but recruiting means more than ever in today's age.
 
#6,041      

Jkat00

Jkat00
Champaign, IL
Jkat00
Kathy said:
I'm predicting, from a gut feeling only, that Groce will stay another year!!!
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#6,043      

Deleted member 16340

D
Guest
Deleted member 16340
I get this feeling that this might be a progession to the promised land, not unlike the AD position...
 
#6,044      

Obelix

Obelix
Obelix
LuvIlliniHoopzInVA said:
Although this wouldn't surprise me, it seems as if JW would have given a public affirmation and put all this to rest by now.
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No matter what the decision, Whitman will make a one time announcement at the end of the season. He will not put his decision up for public scrutiny while the season is still playing, will not create a ruckus around the team, and will keep the focus on student athletes. Making a decision before the season is over would show bias either way. It will not happen.
 
#6,045      

Deleted member 626650

D
Guest
Deleted member 626650
Obelix said:
No matter what the decision, Whitman will make a one time announcement at the end of the season. He will not put his decision up for public scrutiny while the season is still playing, will not create a ruckus around the team, and will keep the focus on student athletes. Making a decision before the season is over would show bias either way. It will not happen.
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I'm not saying your reasoning is false, but JW gave Groce a vote of confidence last year before the end of the season. Why not do it again this year if Groce is truly safe?
 
#6,046      

mhuml32

mhuml32
Cincinnati, OH
mhuml32
Obelix said:
No matter what the decision, Whitman will make a one time announcement at the end of the season. He will not put his decision up for public scrutiny while the season is still playing, will not create a ruckus around the team, and will keep the focus on student athletes. Making a decision before the season is over would show bias either way. It will not happen.
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Disagree. He did it last year and would argue that giving a vote of confidence creates more potential heat on the AD in a situation like this.
 
#6,047      

schnaurt

schnaurt
Phoenix, AZ
schnaurt
TCTORNADO said:
The MW to Phoenix Suns rumor is probably the reason JKat said he would not be UI HC. Earl Watson is entrenched @ Phoenix.
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I cannot think of the last person that spoke highly of Robert Sarver after working for him. Monty should run from that rumor quickly.
 
#6,048      

Obelix

Obelix
Obelix
Buckets4days said:
I'm not saying your reasoning is false, but JW gave Groce a vote of confidence last year before the end of the season. Why not do it again this year if Groce is truly safe?
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Because the reasons I gave above. The situation, circumstances, and timing (especially after making a football coaching decision) where totally different last year. It would show bias iif he made decision before season end this year, no matter what that decision would be. He will not make an announcement before the season is over.
 
#6,049      

cam

C
cam
ChrisNMattoon said:
Huh? Finke, Jordan, DJW, Damonte and Pickett off bench. Maybe 5th year transfer in front court.... All I was saying is that there is a way to keep Groce, without extending and not be killed in recruiting...
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I actually think next year's roster is pretty good. Lucas, Frazier, JCL, Black, Nichols, Finke, Tillmon is a very good 7. DJ Williams, Damonte Williams, Jordan , possibly Mark Smith and a 5th year big I think that's better than the team now because of way better point guard play
 
#6,050      

Obelix

Obelix
Obelix
mhuml32 said:
Disagree. He did it last year and would argue that giving a vote of confidence creates more potential heat on the AD in a situation like this.
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Not sure what you are arguing. Indeed it would create more heat on the AD, create a ruckus around the team, he would be putting his decision up for public scrutiny while the team still be playing, and would take attention away from student athletes. He will not make an announcement either way before season's end.
 
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