Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread (October 2018)

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#1,526      

Deleted member 654622

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I like discussions a lot but this seems like a lot of talk about how to fit a round peg into a square hole.

BU is who he is. Will this be a quick turnaround? Doubt it. Could it have been if we landed all that talent in our lap, sure. But JW picked a basketball coach, not a recruiter. So he is going to have to show off his coaching ability to land the next crop of talent that is falling in our lap. Don't try to alter who you are. You will come off as fake and insincere. But that doesn't mean you don't recognize your weaknesses and see if you can improve on them.
 
#1,528      

bombayIllini

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bombayIllini
ChuckM said:
I remember an article when Underwood was hired.


Coach 1
“A really good coach, a really good offensive coach. He commands a lot of respect in the profession. Lots of guys have gone to see him about what he does offensively, like a (John) Beiliein.”

“I don’t know his personality, but this a guy who’s ahead of game when it comes to his offense.”

“This could be a Bill Self-ish hire for Illinois. He can win, so therefore, he can recruit.”

Coach 2
“He was at Western Illinois for a long time. Then he became a (Bob) Huggins guy with the same defensive mentality (heavy pressure). He inherited a Stephen F. Austin team that was loaded. It has the best home-court advantage in the league. Now he DID win there (89-14, 3-for-3 NCAA tournament berths).”

I think Underwood is a good coach, a very good coach. Recruiting will be key. I don’t know the last time he recruited (the state of Illinois) but Illinois is more of a national job anyway.”

Both of those coaches seemed to be somewhat concerned of him being able to recruit.
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I think BU will be fine. Especially if h does well this year, which is what I expect his team to do. I think we will be in the middle of the pack and not the 13th team in the B10. Let us see.
 
#1,531      

ChuckM

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ChuckM
Dude said:
My point was that Coach 1 said nothing but positives. He also mentioned Bill Self, who was a good recruiter. Then said he can recruit. He did not say "should", he said "can. There is zero negativity about his recruiting ability in those statements
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Coach 1 is saying Illinois hired Underwood saying there thinking is (like Bill Self) he can win so he can recruit. The coach didn't say Underwood could or has even shown in his past that he could recruit.

Who was Underwood's biggest signing as head coach before he got to Illinois?
 
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#1,532      

TCTORNADO

TCTORNADO
TCTORNADO
ChuckM said:
Coach 1 is saying Illinois hired Underwood saying there thinking is (like Bill Self) he can win so he can recruit. The coach didn't say Underwood could or has even shown in his past that he could recruit.

Who was Underwood's biggest signing as head coach before he got to Illinois?
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Wasn't it Zack Dawson at OkState, 247 sports-#125. Dawson was the one that was implicated in the FBI investigation as to taking money from assistant coach, Lamont Evans to come to Stillwater.
 
#1,534      

bert1991

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bert1991
Obelix said:
Not sure that you read the entire post. Much of the ability to recruit is personality, the ability to connect and form relationships on a personal level. Head coaches can learn, but not everything is a "tactic", a lot of it has to do with personality traits that are often more difficult to change.

You can take Bruce Weber to any, and as many, seminars you want. You will not turn Bruce Weber into Bill Self in recruiting. His personality and ability to connect with recruits (and AAU/HS coaches) will never be a match for Bill Self's personality and ability to connect with recruits.
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Bruce seems to be doing pretty well at KState
 
#1,536      

ChuckM

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ChuckM
Dude said:
That is irrellevent to that coach's comments. He said "He can win, therefore, he can recruit". There is literally zero shaded area into what he said. He didn't say IF.
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You are just taking one little piece out of what he said. His quote was “This could be a Bill Self-ish hire for Illinois. He can win, so therefore, he can recruit.”

Think about that "so therefore" really good and what the coach is saying. He talked a few times about how good and even great Underwood is as a coach but when he talked about recruiting he had to throw in an assumption based on winning.

Maybe I am reading this wrong and he can recruit and he starts getting top talent.
 
#1,538      

ChuckM

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ChuckM
bombayIllini said:
I think BU will be fine. Especially if h does well this year, which is what I expect his team to do. I think we will be in the middle of the pack and not the 13th team in the B10. Let us see.
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I agree they don't finish that low and the following year if they keep the team together the recruiting should be a lot better.
 
#1,540      

Obelix

Obelix
Obelix
bert1991 said:
Bruce seems to be doing pretty well at KState
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He is doing better than what he did at Illinois (with his own players) but still worse than his predecessor at KSU. But the important thing is how he did at Illinois, what is the program he inherited and what is the program he left behind. IMO he is the coach most responsible for the sharp decline in our program. For the record, I do not think that Bruce is a bad game coach, but he is not a good recruiter and in order to have success at Illinois you have to be a very strong recruiter. Some facts on the program Weber inherited at Illinois, and the program he left behind.

Weber inherited a basketball program that had won 76% (78-24) of its games the previous three years and 73% (35-13) of its conference games. In fact, no coach in Illini history had ever inherited a program with better winning percentage in its 98 year-old history. Actually, no coach in the history of the Big Ten Conference had ever taken over a basketball program with such high BT winning percentage since 1947, when Ohio State’s William H. Dye succeeded Harold Olsen who had gone 30-6 (83%) in conference games during the depleted World War II years.

Once the last of the players who were recruited and had played for Bill Self (Dee Brown and James Augustine) graduated, Bruce Weber compiled a cumulative BT record of 50-56, a record which was the worst in Illini basketball history at the time since the late 70s (the previous 6-year worst had been compiled during the 1975-81 period when the Illini went 49-59).

Every coach at UI, including Underwood, Weber and Groce, would have had some level of success at previous stops and may even go to have success afterwards. The important thing is how they do at UI, what they inherit and what they actually leave behind. Based on history, the common denominator for success at UI, is talent and strong recruiting.
 
#1,541      

ChiefIllini

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ChiefIllini
ChiefGritty said:
Weber is an okay basketball coach who was chasing his own tail by the end of his time at Illinois and was headed nowhere good. We were right to fire him and we can and should reach for better than that.
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Well I would have trouble of thinking of 30 coaches who are better at pure coaching than Weber. Whether he can create viable lineups, distribute minutes, connect with players, and recruit, is another story, but listen to him talk about the game and you'll realize he has a grasp of what he wants his kids to do (and they do do it, for better or worse). Not in anyway am I trying to advocate for Weber to have been retained (he should've been fired earlier). You're completely right, he was in a tailspin here.
 
#1,542      

Illwinsagain

Illwinsagain
Cary, IL
Illwinsagain
ChuckM said:
You are just taking one little piece out of what he said. His quote was “This could be a Bill Self-ish hire for Illinois. He can win, so therefore, he can recruit.”

Think about that "so therefore" really good and what the coach is saying. He talked a few times about how good and even great Underwood is as a coach but when he talked about recruiting he had to throw in an assumption based on winning.

Maybe I am reading this wrong and he can recruit and he starts getting top talent.
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I don't take the comment the same way that you do. I could be wrong, but, for the coach to say "Bill Self-ish" hire, and Self is known for recruiting....
 
#1,545      

sacraig

sacraig
The desert
sacraig
Rammer34 said:
Smith?
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I'm not sure you can draw a conclusion about a player's defensive potential based on their performance as a true freshman. Some come in prepared, but most are completely lost. Finke, on the other hand, gave us three years of cluelessness on the defensive end of the floor.
 
#1,547      

Deleted member 643761

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ChiefIllini said:
Well I would have trouble of thinking of 30 coaches who are better at pure coaching than Weber. Whether he can create viable lineups, distribute minutes, connect with players, and recruit, is another story, but listen to him talk about the game and you'll realize he has a grasp of what he wants his kids to do (and they do do it, for better or worse). Not in anyway am I trying to advocate for Weber to have been retained (he should've been fired earlier). You're completely right, he was in a tailspin here.
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The fact that so many put the "his type of player" caveat in when talking about weber is telling. Weber can take mid major talent and succeed at the mid major level or be middling in P5.

Given an Olympian at PG he can succeed at the P5 level.

But he succeeds at the level i hope for illinois only under very narrow circumstances. That makes him just a decent coach in my book.
 
#1,548      

ChuckM

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ChuckM
Illwinsagain said:
I don't take the comment the same way that you do. I could be wrong, but, for the coach to say "Bill Self-ish" hire, and Self is known for recruiting....
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I took it as Bill Self won a lot of games at Oral Roberts and Tulsa before Illinois hired him. When he got to Illinois he kept winning and became a solid and eventually great recruiter so since it worked for Self then it should work again for Underwood.
 
#1,550      

Newman

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Newman
Obelix said:
He is doing better than what he did at Illinois (with his own players) but still worse than his predecessor at KSU.
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Speaking of that guy. Weber's predecessor at KSU had two 5-star players(both one and dones) in his first class, but also had five guys that were 2 & 3 star. The next year, he had two 2-star players for the next recruiting class. For his third class he had two 2-star guys, two 3-star guys, and 5-star Wally Judge that averaged 4 ppg up to his transfer two year players. For his 4th and 5th class he had all 3 star players.

So besides his fluke first year getting Michael Beasley and Bill Walker, again both one and dones, Frank Martin was able to win at Kansas State almost entirely with 3 star players.
 
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