War Chant has been retired
The identity is the Fighting Illini, not the Eagles. War Chant, Three in One, and such are traditions, but aren't the identity itself. Those other things can go and I'd manage, but losing the name itself would be a bridge too far.
I buy Illinois and Fighting Illini merchandise without the Chief on it. However, you can be damn sure that I won't spend a cent on an Illinois Prairie Chickens shirt or whatever (possible exception if we become the Axe-Swingin' Lincolns), just like I won't pay anything for some stupid contrived "mascot" if they roll one of those out, and I suspect that's a widely-held feeling. That's not our identity.
And, I think Whitman is on the same page. He doesn't sign it "Fighting Illini Forever" just as a formality. With him, I think the name is safe.
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Illiini
- In the land of the Nittany Lion
And remember, those who wanted War Chant to be "retired" want it all. There is no compromise, only constant pressure. This was received by Kaufman as a "small step." You know, as in before another step. The brass ring is Fighting Illini, and they will not rest until they get it. Giving them War Chant will not bring us peace in our time.
100% correct.
That letter was an absolute joke. If Whitman was confident in the decision, and believed all that unity crap, this would've been a perfect letter to accompany the announcement. Instead its 3 days later after hearing all the backlash.
Deleted member 4333
D
Guest
This. Thanks. I didn't have the courage to say it myself.
mattcoldagelli
- The Transfer Portal with Do Not Contact Tag
He probably thought our fans were mature adults that wouldn't throw a tantrum over a song. Jokes on him, huh?
I love almost everything you post. What I wrote is hardly a tantrum. In all honesty, I don't even like the war chant at football games, but I know politically correct BS when I see it.
And for the record, I love everything Josh Whitman is doing for our athletic department (sans this obviously administration/politically driven letter).
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He hasn't been paying attention to the NFL then. Some songs are held in higher regard than others.
mattcoldagelli
- The Transfer Portal with Do Not Contact Tag
That wasn't directed explicitly at your post - I think you'd definitely agree people are losing their minds over this, no?
Definitely agree
I think the timing of the announcement made it worse. I don't think 99% of fans/alumni even knew it was in consideration, as the Chief has been gone for 10 years now. Trying to read other people's minds, I'm guessing people are worried about this slippery slope, and where it all ends..... 3 in 1, Oskee Wow Wow, Fighting Illini....
mattcoldagelli
- The Transfer Portal with Do Not Contact Tag
Let's look at it in reverse.
We got rid of the Chief, and in doing so, made either an implicit or explicit case to the NCAA that "Chief Illiniwek" and "Fighting Illini" are separable entities. As has been pointed out in this thread, "Fighting Illini" predates the Chief, is not a term referring to an actual Native American tribe, and was created as shorthand/trendy phrase for student soldiers. In short, the Chief and his surrounding trappings (logos, etc.) were the things that brought the Native American connotation to the school's teams, and without him we revert to the origin of the term, which is essentially just a demonym (along the lines of "Hoosier" or "Sooner").
Wouldn't keeping around the most overtly Native American thing we had undermine this case?
To be frank, I don't share the worry about the activists that others have expressed. With minor exceptions (getting the logo removed from, say, toilet paper), they did not achieve their aims in all their years of protesting the Chief. The NCAA made that happen.
Now, I don't trust the NCAA to get even the simplest thing correct, but we also don't need to be handing them ammunition to fire in the wrong direction, which is what the War Chant is.
The Galloping Ghost
- Washington, DC
I'm happy he wrote the letter and I agree with it.
It makes me sad people are losing their minds over some drums. I understand the slippery slope argument, but my experience at U of I was a heck of a lot more than what the band plays or a guy in a costume. It's cheesy, but my love for my school comes from the classes I took, classmates I met, and alums I continue to meet. I took a big risk coming to U of I. I was from the east coast and had never been to the Midwest till I stepped foot on campus, but everybody immediately made me feel at home and the school just felt right.
Trust me, I also care deeply about Fighting Illini sports. Our winning or losing can make or break my day and often my week. Ultimately though, my love for my school will always be defined by my experience as a whole and our athletic program, and what song is played on 3rd down, are only a small part of that.
The Galloping Ghost
- Washington, DC
This is an extremely well thought out argument. You're doing amazing work, Matt.
I was, not so sure now. I'm not an AD but when your on field product is hot garbage my "go to" would not be to alienate fans and donors. This is a better play when fans really want to go see Illini football for the quality, competitive football being played. Being honest, how many years until that is a reality? Want proof that it's not close, get a screenshot of the stands for the home opener, even worse, the student section.
You know what, in reality it does not matter. Tough for the program to become more irrelevant. But this is a move that works better when you can balance it with anything positive for fans and alums and we are not there.
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Stevegarbs
- Mokena, IL
Illiini
- In the land of the Nittany Lion
First, Native American imagery and the history of "Fighting Illini": Click here. "Illini" existed before WWI, going back to the 1870s, and the Native American aspect was ingrained enough that by the time football was well estalished, the DI could refer to them as "Indians" in print and have readers understand what they were talking about.
Second, during the Memorial Stadium fund drive, Native American imagery was used in a way that suggests that people already understood it to be a symbol of the university. All the Oskee-wow-wow and Cha-he stuff in our songs are mock Indian words. As is the Marching Illini's "Umgawa." And of course, the Three-In-One has not only the Chief dance segment but the words the the MI march to includes "Illini."
Losing our minds over one song? If it were one song, it would be disappointing, but for me, heck, it's after when I was in school. I haven't been able to be in Memorial Stadium in decades. Life and all that. But as for it having been ten years since losing Chief Illiniwek and this is the "only thing" since then, I'll add that this is the first music we've lost. It's the crack in the levee, the nose of the camel under the tent. If you think it ends here, I have a bridge to sell you.
The brass ring is "Fighting Illini." It's not forever, not unless there's something going on behind the scenes that we don't know about. I wouldn't put that beyond JW, and this decision was outed before its time in a way not intended by JW et al, but until I see concrete evidence, I'm not losing my mind. We're just losing our heritage. Prairie Chickens, here we come.
Second, during the Memorial Stadium fund drive, Native American imagery was used in a way that suggests that people already understood it to be a symbol of the university. All the Oskee-wow-wow and Cha-he stuff in our songs are mock Indian words. As is the Marching Illini's "Umgawa." And of course, the Three-In-One has not only the Chief dance segment but the words the the MI march to includes "Illini."
Losing our minds over one song? If it were one song, it would be disappointing, but for me, heck, it's after when I was in school. I haven't been able to be in Memorial Stadium in decades. Life and all that. But as for it having been ten years since losing Chief Illiniwek and this is the "only thing" since then, I'll add that this is the first music we've lost. It's the crack in the levee, the nose of the camel under the tent. If you think it ends here, I have a bridge to sell you.
The brass ring is "Fighting Illini." It's not forever, not unless there's something going on behind the scenes that we don't know about. I wouldn't put that beyond JW, and this decision was outed before its time in a way not intended by JW et al, but until I see concrete evidence, I'm not losing my mind. We're just losing our heritage. Prairie Chickens, here we come.
Like others, I found Whitman's letter unimpressive.
I don't like the way they handled this, either. The discussion to drop war chant has probably been around for awhile. There should have been a simultaneous discussion to develop a replacement. If War Chant was too slow in this day of hurry up offenses, then create music that develops fast enough to get the crowd chanting and fired up and roll it out there IN PLACE OF War Chant. Certainly there are members of the music department capable of doing this.
Ok, that's all I've got. For the record, I'm not overly upset by dropping War Chant. I just don't like the imbecilic way "they" did it. it isn't a dagger in my heart.
I don't like the way they handled this, either. The discussion to drop war chant has probably been around for awhile. There should have been a simultaneous discussion to develop a replacement. If War Chant was too slow in this day of hurry up offenses, then create music that develops fast enough to get the crowd chanting and fired up and roll it out there IN PLACE OF War Chant. Certainly there are members of the music department capable of doing this.
Ok, that's all I've got. For the record, I'm not overly upset by dropping War Chant. I just don't like the imbecilic way "they" did it. it isn't a dagger in my heart.
As opposed to those "fans" who threw a tantrum and got their way?
Maybe we should switch to the tomahawk chop, as that seems to be politically correct.
In all seriousness, I would love to see the NCAA's reactin if other schools started adopting the chop. How could they ( other than being the NCAA and doing what they want) came down on anyone while ignoring FSU?
Agree 100%, even more so the bolded
Deleted member 4333
D
Guest
Can we please stop pretending that people are "losing their minds" over this. No one has lost their mind. There are well reasoned arguments on both sides. One side happens to be wrong, that's all.
Well though out argument. My biggest issue is with the bolded. Who is to say what is the most overtly Native American thing? Honestly this seems like a "low hanging fruit" type of thing. "Let's eliminate the short song with no words or motions. Nobody will care that much."
The war chant is nothing more than a drum beat with some horns and clapping. Sure it sounds like it could come from Pocahontas, but there's nothing offensive about it unless you have something against music.
You could really make solid arguments that of the 3 in 1, Oskee Wow Wow, War Chant, and name Fighting Illini, the War Chant was actually the least offensive thing.
mattcoldagelli
- The Transfer Portal with Do Not Contact Tag
Maybe we should switch to the tomahawk chop, as that seems to be politically correct.
In all seriousness, I would love to see the NCAA's reactin if other schools started adopting the chop. How could they ( other than being the NCAA and doing what they want) came down on anyone while ignoring FSU?
I mean, the War Chant is pretty much a not-distant cousin of the Tomahawak Chop. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I find the Chop to be creepy and in poor taste.
And why would you love to see the reaction? Let me spoil it for you: if you don't have the Seminole Nation giving this an explicit thumbs up, you can get bent or miss the postseason.
See above - you can describe the Tomahawk Chop as just drums and horns as well. But it's less about it being offensive on its face, and more about it being distinctly Native American, especially after claiming to have dropped our Native American imagery 10 years ago. It's a wink and a nod to something we said we were retiring - which is also why people are so up in arms over it.
Dan
Admin
UI chancellor: Dropping 'war chant' was my call
http://www.news-gazette.com/sports/...hancellor-dropping-war-chant-was-my-call.html
http://www.news-gazette.com/sports/...hancellor-dropping-war-chant-was-my-call.html