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Old Apr 16, 2018, 09:43 AM   #101
jmilt7
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Location: Waukegan
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Originally Posted by Second and Chalmers View Post
It is very admirable that we are letting guys transfer unrestricted, but these are the first such examples nationally that I can recall seeing.
I am confused. What we are doing, that is, Illinois is letting Finke, TJL and whoever else transfer without restrictions is the first such examples nationally? Am I understanding that correctly? And I am asking sincerely. If the answer is yes, can you elaborate? I am interested. I thought everyone except Pitt allowed unrestricted transfers (mostly).
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Old Apr 16, 2018, 09:44 AM   #102
KrushCow31
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I think in conference restrictions are incredibly common and make sense. Finke knows the ins and outs of our offense and our defense. Know our playbook and it's weaknesses. You think Penn State won't milk him for that? Only like 5 years ago it was an official Big 10 rule the you couldn't do that, probably to protect schools without making them seem like the bad guys. It's probably different overall cause Finke graduated though.

When Dakich transferred to Ohio State from Michigan, it made tons of headlines. Granted his dad is famous, but he was a walk on who was just given a scholarship, and redshirted his last year like LaTulip did, and averaged only like 3 minutes a game. If that made tons of headlines, a starting PF averaging 10PPG and 5 RPG transferring to an in conference rival definitely will.
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Old Apr 16, 2018, 09:51 AM   #103
Second and Chalmers
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Originally Posted by jmilt7 View Post
I am confused. What we are doing, that is, Illinois is letting Finke, TJL and whoever else transfer without restrictions is the first such examples nationally? Am I understanding that correctly? And I am asking sincerely. If the answer is yes, can you elaborate? I am interested. I thought everyone except Pitt allowed unrestricted transfers (mostly).
I could be wrong, I don't follow this stuff super closely. But transfers have usually been restricted to out-of-conference teams and often Mizzou-type situations as well.
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Old Apr 16, 2018, 10:15 AM   #104
TEYPAY
Location: Springfield
not sure -- but can you limit graduate transfers?
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Old Apr 16, 2018, 10:21 AM   #105
Peoria Illini
Location: Peoria, IL
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Originally Posted by Second and Chalmers View Post
I could be wrong, I don't follow this stuff super closely. But transfers have usually been restricted to out-of-conference teams and often Mizzou-type situations as well.
What about Bielfeldt? He went to Indiana from Michigan as a grad transfer, didn't he?

I think it's been done before.

I have no problem with Finke to PSU. I think he'd be better off at Vandy or Stanford, though.
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Old Apr 16, 2018, 10:27 AM   #106
ILL in IA
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Is the lack of restrictions telling why the player is leaving? Esp. for Finke and TJL.

We think it would be better if you play elsewhere next year. And because of that, you are free to go where you want.

Different if you really want a guy to stick around.
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Old Apr 16, 2018, 10:28 AM   #107
ChiefIllini
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Originally Posted by TEYPAY View Post
not sure -- but can you limit graduate transfers?
I question this and I also question the validity of reports that schools restrict players. Can't remember exact situations, but Howland got put on blast for limiting a guy the past few years. This got quickly resolved and the player was allowed to go whereever, but not before Miss St's reputation was tarnished. I think Occamm's razor in this case would be that school dont actually restrict players, its just media/fan buildup. Of course, there are probably instances, and I know it's a much bigger thing in football than basketball (I've heard kids actually getting denied releases in FB, never in BB), but then again maybe im a cynic and these universities do do intensive limitations consistently.

My vote is kids aren't normally restricted, but it probably does happen occasionally.
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Old Apr 16, 2018, 10:33 AM   #108
ILL in IA
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Originally Posted by ChiefIllini View Post
I question this and I also question the validity of reports that schools restrict players. Can't remember exact situations, but Howland got put on blast for limiting a guy the past few years. This got quickly resolved and the player was allowed to go whereever, but not before Miss St's reputation was tarnished. I think Occamm's razor in this case would be that school dont actually restrict players, its just media/fan buildup. Of course, there are probably instances, and I know it's a much bigger thing in football than basketball (I've heard kids actually getting denied releases in FB, never in BB), but then again maybe im a cynic and these universities do do intensive limitations consistently.

My vote is kids aren't normally restricted, but it probably does happen occasionally.
I think the national media is starting the push back on coaches restrictions on players. Bo Ryan got crushed on the blocks he put on Uthoff.
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Old Apr 16, 2018, 04:35 PM   #109
CoalCity
Location: St Paul, MN
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Originally Posted by Peoria Illini View Post
What about Bielfeldt? He went to Indiana from Michigan as a grad transfer, didn't he?

I think it's been done before.

I have no problem with Finke to PSU. I think he'd be better off at Vandy or Stanford, though.
One thing notable about PSU is the toughness and athleticism that they play with. Is Michael Finke really a fit for that team?
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Old Apr 16, 2018, 04:49 PM   #110
jmilt7
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Okay, it sounds as if you can block a transfer unless the press finds out about it?
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Old Apr 16, 2018, 09:17 PM   #111
Greensboro
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Originally Posted by Obelix View Post
You can still block graduate transfers but coaches and programs are catching a lot of heat for doing so. Beilein tried to block Spike Albrecht from transferring to other B1G programs (although he had already recruited over him) but he was forced to remove such restrictions after receiving much criticism. Albrecht eventually transferred to Purdue.



https://www.freep.com/story/sports/c...ules/82508986/


This + Biefeldt + Cam Johnson from Pitt are all recent examples that went awry for the school trying to block


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Old Apr 16, 2018, 11:41 PM   #112
LBZ
I read that MF was visiting P State above. Just did not know he was already on tour...

"Illinois grad transfer Michael Finke tells me he is finishing up a visit to Nevada and then will head to Grand Canyon. Visits Penn State this weekend and Vanderbilt on 4/22."
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/sta...85030470881281
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Old Apr 17, 2018, 04:46 AM   #113
Verified Insider
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Originally Posted by Peoria Illini View Post
What about Bielfeldt? He went to Indiana from Michigan as a grad transfer, didn't he?

I think it's been done before.

I have no problem with Finke to PSU. I think he'd be better off at Vandy or Stanford, though.

And the Dakich kid.

Not only did he transfer within the conference, but he went from Michigan to Ohio State.
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Old Apr 17, 2018, 05:29 AM   #114
Newman
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This + Biefeldt + Cam Johnson from Pitt are all recent examples that went awry for the school trying to block


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Twitter pretty much took away a coaches ability to block schools. I'm not even exaggerating.
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Old Apr 17, 2018, 08:41 AM   #115
Ransom Stoddard
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Twitter pretty much took away a coaches ability to block schools. I'm not even exaggerating.
Which is fine with me. Coaches can jump for greener pastures with little to no consequence, but they want to dictate where a player can or cannot wind up?

The funny thing is that these coaches appear to have no compunction with the possibility of coaching against their former players if the coach is the one to move, but don't want to allow it if it is the player that leaves. Massive double standard, and I'm always happy to see a coach get roasted on the interwebs for it.

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Old Apr 17, 2018, 09:42 AM   #116
kaptain80
Location: STL
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Originally Posted by Ransom Stoddard View Post
Which is fine with me. Coaches can jump for greener pastures with little to no consequence, but they want to dictate where a player can or cannot wind up?

The funny thing is that these coaches appear to have no compunction with the possibility of coaching against their former players if the coach is the one to move, but don't want to allow it if it is the player that leaves. Massive double standard, and I'm always happy to see a coach get roasted on the interwebs for it.
For me it's not the double standard of coaching-against vs. playing-against, it's more that the coaches will still get paid 6-7 digits annually to do it. Say what you will about the value of a college education for a player to stick around but that salary is cash in hand, not a hope for future cash.
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Old Apr 17, 2018, 09:46 AM   #117
Second and Chalmers
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Originally Posted by Newman View Post
Twitter pretty much took away a coaches ability to block schools. I'm not even exaggerating.
Maybe the only good thing Twitter ever did.
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Old Apr 17, 2018, 10:16 AM   #118
jmilt7
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Originally Posted by Ransom Stoddard View Post
Which is fine with me. Coaches can jump for greener pastures with little to no consequence, but they want to dictate where a player can or cannot wind up?

The funny thing is that these coaches appear to have no compunction with the possibility of coaching against their former players if the coach is the one to move, but don't want to allow it if it is the player that leaves. Massive double standard, and I'm always happy to see a coach get roasted on the interwebs for it.
Just to play devil's advocate because I agree with you but isn't blocking not just for the coach's sake? Not that a coach necessarily takes fans opinions into account but how many people here wished Mark Smith the best unless he transferred to Missouri? Or just plain did not want him to transfer to Missouri. Heck, we have a whole thread detailing our angst on his transfer to Missouri. Although my guess is that most of Illini fandom wish him well, or don't care where he ended up. Just kind of throwing it out there.
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Old Apr 17, 2018, 10:24 AM   #119
Newman
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Originally Posted by jmilt7 View Post
Just to play devil's advocate because I agree with you but isn't blocking not just for the coach's sake? Not that a coach necessarily takes fans opinions into account but how many people here wished Mark Smith the best unless he transferred to Missouri? Or just plain did not want him to transfer to Missouri. Heck, we have a whole thread detailing our angst on his transfer to Missouri. Although my guess is that most of Illini fandom wish him well, or don't care where he ended up. Just kind of throwing it out there.
A coach should block a school because the fans might turn on the player.. Really?
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Old Apr 17, 2018, 10:33 AM   #120
jmilt7
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Originally Posted by Newman View Post
A coach should block a school because the fans might turn on the player.. Really?
Yeah, after I posted that I thought it sounded, well, to put best, ill advised. But like I said, I was just playing devil's advocate. Best to ignore it.
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Old Apr 17, 2018, 10:55 AM   #121
Newman
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Yeah, after I posted that I thought it sounded, well, to put best, ill advised. But like I said, I was just playing devil's advocate. Best to ignore it.
I can certainly see why a school would want to block a conference opponent but I understand why coaches were getting criticism. I'm all for player freedom now but they need to have some rules so it doesn't become such a chaotic process. I'm just not sure what rules would work out in favor of players.
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Old Apr 17, 2018, 11:05 AM   #122
t7nich
Location: Central IL
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Originally Posted by PtownIllini8 View Post
Don't care where he went, he's a good kid, tried hard, no attitude, just don't care. I actually root for Mizzou when they aren't playing us. I want that win in the Braggin' Rights game to be a big win.
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Old Apr 17, 2018, 11:09 AM   #123
haasi
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I think the only possible rationale for blocking a player is that he knows your system and could provide valuable intel to a regular opponent. But (a) probably not much info he can give that coaches canít figure out from film and other publicly available stuff; (b) whatever other info he has probably has limited shelf life; and (c) the much greater interest is the interest of the player to live his life and go to school and play where he wants.


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Old Apr 17, 2018, 11:24 AM   #124
LBZ
Illinois transfer Te'Jon Lucas tells me he will officially visit IUPUI.

https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/sta...63492398342144
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Old Apr 17, 2018, 06:57 PM   #125
HTime
It would be interesting to see how players that transfered from one P5 school to another Comparable school have performed over the last several years. What percentage excel or at least improve?
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