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Old May 2, 2017, 10:59 AM   #76
FiveStar
Location: Austin
Quote:
Originally Posted by IanKEvans2 View Post
Comparing NFL to MLB is apples and oranges. Almora, Bryant, Schwarber, etc... were expected to produce eventually, not immediately. MiLB allows for player development. The NFL doesn't offer that type of flexibility. The #2 pick in the NFL draft is meant to be an immediate impact.

Theo & company had a plan. Pace appears desperate.
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Old May 2, 2017, 03:13 PM   #77
Illiniaaron
Location: Geneseo, IL
Quote:
Originally Posted by champaignchris View Post
This team is now worse than it was when Pace took over.

The team was worse at the end of Emory's tenure than at his beginning, too.

There's been 6 straight years of eroding talent level.

It's pretty clear to me that the dysfunction begins at a level above the GM's office.


This is the problem. You have the same idiots in ownership picking new idiots to run the franchise every three years or so. I've always been surprised that there wasn't one McCaskey offspring that ever immersed themselves in football, tried to learn from some of the league's best and brightest, and eventually ran the team as GM on the football side of things. Instead its always one of Virginia's sons picking the President and then the GM. None of them knows anything about football.
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Old May 2, 2017, 07:58 PM   #78
jrichisamazing
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Originally Posted by Illiniaaron View Post
This is the problem. You have the same idiots in ownership picking new idiots to run the franchise every three years or so. I've always been surprised that there wasn't one McCaskey offspring that ever immersed themselves in football, tried to learn from some of the league's best and brightest, and eventually ran the team as GM on the football side of things. Instead its always one of Virginia's sons picking the President and then the GM. None of them knows anything about football.
Let's be real here. Pace was a young, exciting GM with a bright future when we hired him. He wasn't some scrub. He's been here for 2.5 years. That is nothing when talking about GM's and their ability to change a bad franchise.

And specifically what we are arguing about is draft picks and that is what will most likely decide whether Pace can build this team or not. We can't truly evaluate those draft picks until they are in the league for at least 3 or 4 years.

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Old May 3, 2017, 01:06 PM   #79
Illiniaaron
Location: Geneseo, IL
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Originally Posted by jrichisamazing View Post
Let's be real here. Pace was a young, exciting GM with a bright future when we hired him. He wasn't some scrub. He's been here for 2.5 years. That is nothing when talking about GM's and their ability to change a bad franchise.

And specifically what we are arguing about is draft picks and that is what will most likely decide whether Pace can build this team or not. We can't truly evaluate those draft picks until they are in the league for at least 3 or 4 years.
I agree with you that Pace was highly regarded when the Bears hired him off of the Saints staff a few years ago. But I think you are wrong about the rebuilding time frame. With free agency most NFL rebuilds are showing promise by year three. Maybe the Bears will shock us all and contend for a playoff spot this year. But if they have another six win or less season you really have to believe that the pressure will be on Pace. And you really can't deny that for what its worth this year's Bears draft is being derided by many NFL insiders and GM's.
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Old May 3, 2017, 07:39 PM   #80
McBrush
I do not think we had to move up to get him, but I still do not mind the pick. We got a QB. He might not start this year, but we got one. There is no way of knowing the QBs that will be on the board next year and if we would be able to get them on our pick. Yes we could have got an immediate impact player to fit any of our other needs, but our biggest deficiency is and has been for ages a QB. Glennon gets a chance this year to prove his worth. If Glennon has a breakout year, good for the bears. If not, we know we have someone with a whole lot of potential waiting.
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Old May 3, 2017, 09:36 PM   #81
champaignchris
Things can change, but every 2018 prospect list/mock draft for 2018 that I could find has Rosen (UCLA), Darnold (USC) and Allen (Wyoming) in at least the top 8. Most have them in the top 5 or 6.

It's certainly possible that Pace thinks that Trubisky is a better prospect than those three. It's also possible that Pace thinks the Bears will improve to such an extent that they won't be in a position to pick one of the 2018 prospects.

I think most outside observers would disagree with him in both cases.

In fact the two LA QBs are both considered quite pro-ready and may even be able to take the field before Trubisky does.
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Old May 4, 2017, 07:28 AM   #82
Illinoise
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Originally Posted by champaignchris View Post
Things can change, but every 2018 prospect list/mock draft for 2018 that I could find has Rosen (UCLA), Darnold (USC) and Allen (Wyoming) in at least the top 8. Most have them in the top 5 or 6.

It's certainly possible that Pace thinks that Trubisky is a better prospect than those three. It's also possible that Pace thinks the Bears will improve to such an extent that they won't be in a position to pick one of the 2018 prospects.

I think most outside observers would disagree with him in both cases.

In fact the two LA QBs are both considered quite pro-ready and may even be able to take the field before Trubisky does.
My sense tells me that Bears upper management refuses to let a season or two go for the benefit of the long term. Keep the seats filled while we rebuild is a very difficult charge. I think Pace sensed that having the third pick in the draft is as good an opportunity as he is going to have. If he is picking third again next year he will probably be in his way out. I would have been fine with throwing a horrible team out there this year and getting at the top of the draft next year and I am sure Pace would have been also. I seriously doubt the bean counters would agree. These decisions are are hardly ever football over financial.
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Old May 4, 2017, 01:12 PM   #83
Illwinsagain
Location: Cary, IL
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Originally Posted by jrichisamazing View Post
Aaron Rodgers is the best QB in the NFL. How many super bowls has he won?

I would much rather stack up picks and build a great offensive line and a great defense. IMO that is easier than finding an elite QB. Not to mention there were multiple guys that would have fit perfectly in this defense and could come in and compete right away at a high level. Instead we roll the dice on a guy we don't know much about and lose multiple picks in the process. On paper I don't think it could be much worse.

But looking at it from the optimistic side...the Bears obviously really really liked him. I think Pace has drafted well so far (if you ignore the injuries which are out of his control) so I guess I will continue to trust him. And like you said, elite QB's are important and if we just found one then we will be seeing lots of success over the next 10-15 years.
I don't disagree on Rodgers, but Brady is pretty close. And, well, he's got a few more trophies. A great QB can get a team in the playoffs year after year. Once in the playoffs, hot team wins.
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Old May 4, 2017, 01:20 PM   #84
Illwinsagain
Location: Cary, IL
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Originally Posted by jrichisamazing View Post
The problem is QB isn't the only thing the Bears need. They have a lot of holes and can't afford to be reaching on guys.

IMO there are a lot of QB's out there who would look good with a lot of talent around them. OTOH there are very, very few QB's who can make a mediocre or average team look good. By picking Trubisky this high and spending extra picks to get him, the Bears are banking on him being one of the very limited QB's.

Let other teams take risks and pay way too much for a QB who has an uphill climb to being a long term solution. Meanwhile, we can be making smarter safer picks and getting a QB at the right value, or trading for a QB when we are ready to win, or getting one in free agency.
Honestly, it does work, in the sense that this season will likely be another 3-4 win season. Thus, we will be back at the top of the draft next year. Next year at #4 or so, we can trade back for a ton of picks, especially with a few "top prospects" at QB expected to come out. Load up on picks, fill holes and have a full team. If they traded back this year, they may have been "good" enough to finish with 8 wins, and be drafting mid 1st round, with little opportunity to get "difference makers" or pick up many picks. Certainly, not high enough to get one of "the" QBs.
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Old May 4, 2017, 01:58 PM   #85
Illwinsagain
Location: Cary, IL
Quote:
Originally Posted by IanKEvans2 View Post
Comparing NFL to MLB is apples and oranges. Almora, Rizzo, Baez, Russell, Bryant, Schwarber, etc... were expected to produce eventually, not immediately. MiLB allows for player development. The NFL doesn't offer that type of flexibility. The #2 pick in the NFL draft is meant to be an immediate impact.

Theo & company had a plan. Pace appears desperate.
However, Pro sports reward the terrible, not the mediocre. How many years did the Colts pick at the top of the draft, 2 years after Manning, they began to make the playoffs every year.
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Old May 4, 2017, 03:28 PM   #86
Illiniaaron
Location: Geneseo, IL
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Originally Posted by Illinoise View Post
My sense tells me that Bears upper management refuses to let a season or two go for the benefit of the long term. Keep the seats filled while we rebuild is a very difficult charge. I think Pace sensed that having the third pick in the draft is as good an opportunity as he is going to have. If he is picking third again next year he will probably be in his way out. I would have been fine with throwing a horrible team out there this year and getting at the top of the draft next year and I am sure Pace would have been also. I seriously doubt the bean counters would agree. These decisions are are hardly ever football over financial.
I'm not sure what your point is. The Bears' management has been letting seasons go by for years now, either intentionally or by accident. And the quality of this year's team was really not improved by this year's draft. The drafting of Trubisky probably will have no effect on where the Bears draft next year.
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Old May 4, 2017, 05:57 PM   #87
Illinoise
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Originally Posted by Illiniaaron View Post
I'm not sure what your point is. The Bears' management has been letting seasons go by for years now, either intentionally or by accident. And the quality of this year's team was really not improved by this year's draft. The drafting of Trubisky probably will have no effect on where the Bears draft next year.
Why sign Glennon if you are willing to just be bad for a few years. I know they will not be great this year but they probably won't be as bad as last year with all the injuries. My point is that as inept as this team and franchise has been when was the last time they had the third overall pick or better?
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Old May 4, 2017, 08:54 PM   #88
HR217
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Originally Posted by Illinoise View Post
Why sign Glennon if you are willing to just be bad for a few years. I know they will not be great this year but they probably won't be as bad as last year with all the injuries. My point is that as inept as this team and franchise has been when was the last time they had the third overall pick or better?
Listen to the tay and jay podcast from a couple days ago on it. They will tell you all you need to know about why the move for Trubisky was the right move. As for your last question, which Werner actually mentions, that the Bears have never picked this high in his life.
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Old May 5, 2017, 01:26 PM   #89
Illiniaaron
Location: Geneseo, IL
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Originally Posted by Illinoise View Post
Why sign Glennon if you are willing to just be bad for a few years. I know they will not be great this year but they probably won't be as bad as last year with all the injuries. My point is that as inept as this team and franchise has been when was the last time they had the third overall pick or better?
In Pace's mind, I'm sure he thinks the Bears are a much better team than the fans and media give them credit for. With better quarterback play and fewer injuries, he must feel that the Bears will show improvement this season. He probably thinks the worst is behind them. So in his mind I don't think they are conceding any more years.
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Old May 25, 2017, 01:01 PM   #90
KBLEE
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Bears sign Victor Cruz to a 1 year deal:

https://twitter.com/ChicagoBears/sta...14113732374528
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Old Jul 28, 2017, 09:02 PM   #91
IlliniFaninHoosierLand
Looks like I'll be going to a Bears game again this fall. Got tickets today for Bears-Bengals in Cincy on Dec. 10th.
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Old Aug 25, 2017, 09:07 AM   #92
champaignchris
Depressing Bears trivia for you. In the 25 seasons since Mike Ditka was fired, the Bears have made the playoffs 5 times.

Only the Browns and Texans have made it fewer. Both of those are expansion teams that were only active for 22 and 16 of the last 25 years respectively.
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Old Aug 25, 2017, 09:19 AM   #93
BananaShampoo
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Originally Posted by champaignchris View Post
Depressing Bears trivia for you. In the 25 seasons since Mike Ditka was fired, the Bears have made the playoffs 5 times.

Only the Browns and Texans have made it fewer. Both of those are expansion teams that were only active for 22 and 16 of the last 25 years respectively.
I believe three of those times were under Lovie (they made one appearance under Wannstedt and one under Jauron in that unforgettable 2001 season).

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Old Aug 25, 2017, 09:49 AM   #94
Shane Walsh
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Originally Posted by champaignchris View Post
Depressing Bears trivia for you. In the 25 seasons since Mike Ditka was fired, the Bears have made the playoffs 5 times.
Depressing indeed.
I know that you were probably just using Ditka's final season in 92 as a convenient milestone, but I would argue that their lack of playoff appearances has more to do with Favre (first full season was 92) and Rodgers in Green Bay, Sanders and Megatron in Detroit, and Moss and AP in Minnesota.

That is a lot of very elite offensive talent in the division for a sustained period of time, something the Bears have not had since Sweetness. There have been flashes with Marshall, Forte, and Hester, but the vast majority of the Bears pro bowlers have been players from special teams, defense, or the offensive line.

Fun trivia question- Who are some of the missing offensive players to be selected to the pro bowl since 92 that I did not mention or exclude above? Bonus points if you don't use google.

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Last edited by Shane Walsh; Aug 25, 2017 at 09:54 AM. Reason: trivia question
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Old Aug 25, 2017, 09:57 AM   #95
Illwinsagain
Location: Cary, IL
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Originally Posted by Shane Walsh View Post
Depressing indeed.
I know that you were probably just using Ditka's final season in 92 as a convenient milestone, but I would argue that their lack of playoff appearances has more to do with Favre (first full season was 92) and Rodgers in Green Bay, Sanders and Megatron in Detroit, and Moss and AP in Minnesota.

That is a lot of very elite offensive talent in the division for a sustained period of time, something the Bears have not had since Sweetness. There have been flashes with Marshall, Forte, and Hester, but the vast majority of the Bears pro bowlers have been players from special teams, defense, or the offensive line.

Fun trivia question- Who are some of the missing offensive players to be selected to the pro bowl since 92 that I did not mention or exclude above? Bonus points if you don't use google.
Moses Moreno, Shane Matthews? At least you know that I didn't use Google!

I would guess Anthony Thomas as a fill in.
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Old Aug 25, 2017, 10:14 AM   #96
BananaShampoo
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Originally Posted by Shane Walsh View Post
Depressing indeed.
I know that you were probably just using Ditka's final season in 92 as a convenient milestone, but I would argue that their lack of playoff appearances has more to do with Favre (first full season was 92) and Rodgers in Green Bay, Sanders and Megatron in Detroit, and Moss and AP in Minnesota.

That is a lot of very elite offensive talent in the division for a sustained period of time, something the Bears have not had since Sweetness. There have been flashes with Marshall, Forte, and Hester, but the vast majority of the Bears pro bowlers have been players from special teams, defense, or the offensive line.

Fun trivia question- Who are some of the missing offensive players to be selected to the pro bowl since 92 that I did not mention or exclude above? Bonus points if you don't use google.
Since '92? Assuming you mean skill position players only I'd guess Neil Anderson might have made one or two since then. Tom Waddle? (ha!) Not a lot of elite WR talent on the Bears over the years aside from Marshall. Marty Booker did have a couple really good years, so maybe him?

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Old Aug 25, 2017, 10:49 AM   #97
Illwinsagain
Location: Cary, IL
Curtis Conway, Jeff Graham, Eric Kramer for their one big year?
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Old Aug 31, 2017, 12:52 PM   #98
Illiniaaron
Location: Geneseo, IL
Didn't Alshon Jeffrey make it as an alternate one year? Jordan Howard was also an alternate last year wasn't he?
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Old Aug 31, 2017, 01:15 PM   #99
KBLEE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by champaignchris View Post
Depressing Bears trivia for you. In the 25 seasons since Mike Ditka was fired, the Bears have made the playoffs 5 times.

Only the Browns and Texans have made it fewer. Both of those are expansion teams that were only active for 22 and 16 of the last 25 years respectively.
Saw this today:
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Old Sep 1, 2017, 03:26 PM   #100
spfldfan
Bears releasing Cruz
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