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Old Feb 17, 2017, 12:14 PM   #5826
WesterveltVictoryCigar
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebizz81 View Post
Not once did I say Groce should stay solely for the incoming class, but you have to consider that when making a decision. If I were to tell you Dan Mueller was the best Whitman would pull and that he kept neither Tilmon nor Frazier, would you be as amped to just blindly fire the guy? I dont think that will transpire but I wouldn't, which is why speaking in absolutes does not make sense.
If Mueller is the best we can get then we've got bigger problems than just deciding whether to fire Groce or not. Also I'm pretty confident Whitman won't "blindly" do anything.
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Old Feb 17, 2017, 12:15 PM   #5827
OrangeAndBlues
Location: Indianapolis
Quote:
Originally Posted by bert1991 View Post
What chance (if any) do we have of landing Mark Smith (keeping in mind the new offers coming in every day)? Is our chance better or worse with John Groce as our HC (keeping in mind MS previous visits/ growing relationship with current signed recruits/ JG / other staff, etc.)

50%, 10%, 0%?
With JG?
With other? <insert potential candidate>
With Groce: 0%
Without Groce: >0%
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Old Feb 17, 2017, 12:21 PM   #5828
DoctorofJazz
Quote:
Originally Posted by illiniboy60074 View Post
I think a lot of us from the early Henson era thought he was a good enough coach. I always remember what was said by friends of mine at the Sigma Chi house where Steve Lanter lived. Lanter said that Henson was a good practice coach but a terrible game coach. Especially when it was a close game. If Henson called a time out during a close game he would often stand there and say nothing - sounded like an anxiety attack. Still, I would love to have a version of Henson now versus what we do have.
I just watched the last couple of minutes of the 1989 NCAA Tourney game with Illinois and Michigan. I noticed that Lou almost never got animated on the sidelines.

I also seem to remember Henson's teams having problems with free throws, especially in close games.
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Old Feb 17, 2017, 12:29 PM   #5829
VAIllini35
OFL Supplier, BU's Brylcreem
Location: Virginia
Quote:
Originally Posted by LurkLongandProsper View Post
Keatts' year 2 UNCW squad played Duke last year, a team that made the E8, and covered the spread against them. Obviously you want wins, but he still outperformed expectations against a really strong Duke team just last year..
They also lost to Radford last year. I also know a coach that knocked off a number 1 Indiana a few years back. Hmm...
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Old Feb 17, 2017, 12:37 PM   #5830
LurkLongandProsper
Location: C-U
Quote:
Originally Posted by VAIllini35 View Post
They also lost to Radford last year. I also know a coach that knocked off a number 1 Indiana a few years back. Hmm...
Yeah, teams sometimes lose to teams they shouldn't, he still won the conference title last year as well. The point I was responding to was about if his team could compete in the tournament. They did.
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Old Feb 17, 2017, 12:38 PM   #5831
KrushCow31
Former Krush Cow
KrushCow31's Avatar
Location: South Bend, IN
I am fully on team Keatts. My only hesitation is just how bad the CAA has become now that VCU, Old Dominion, and George Mason have left. OD and George Mason left in 2013 the year or two before Keatts took over.
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Old Feb 17, 2017, 12:44 PM   #5832
Greensboro
Quote:
Originally Posted by TownieMatt View Post
Wouldn't be shocked if Keatts lands at NCST. Makes more sense than Illinois in terms of area connections, and Illinois isn't a significantly better job at this point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fighter of the Nightman View Post
8 years of sucking doesn't change the potential of a job like Illinois THAT much.
One of these schools is 1 of 15 schools with 2 or more NCAA championships & it isn't us. I think many outside of this board would consider NCState the better job even before the 8 years of suck.
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Old Feb 17, 2017, 12:44 PM   #5833
zpfled
Banned
Location: Logan Square, Chicago
Cuonzo Martin wants the Illinois job. He'll bring Charlie Moore with him.
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Old Feb 17, 2017, 12:52 PM   #5834
KrushCow31
Former Krush Cow
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Location: South Bend, IN
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greensboro View Post
One of these schools is 1 of 15 schools with 2 or more NCAA championships & it isn't us. I think many outside of this board would consider NCState the better job even before the 8 years of suck.
One of the articles already spoke about how NCState is a dangerous job because their fans have deluded and unrealistic expectations. If you can get fired midway through the season after making the tournament 6 of the last 8 years, including sweet 16s, what kind of job security is that?
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Old Feb 17, 2017, 12:54 PM   #5835
zpfled
Banned
Location: Logan Square, Chicago
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kajagoogoo View Post
Bold.


This is just my own speculation, but I think that Cuonzo would be able to land Mark Smith if he came to Illinois. I really hope that Frazier still comes to UI next year, but Moore and Smith would sure help if Frazier decommits.

Having a consistent backcourt featuring 2 legit PGs at all times would be so nice.
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Old Feb 17, 2017, 12:57 PM   #5836
LisaMarie
There's hot list on the Scout NC State site with many of the same names discussed here...a handy reference of resumes, salaries and buyouts all in one place.


http://www.scout.com/college/north-c...de-s-big-board

Last edited by LisaMarie; Feb 17, 2017 at 01:00 PM.
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Old Feb 17, 2017, 12:57 PM   #5837
Illiniguy13
Quote:
Originally Posted by zpfled View Post


This is just my own speculation, but I think that Cuonzo would be able to land Mark Smith if he came to Illinois. I really hope that Frazier still comes to UI next year, but Moore and Smith would sure help if Frazier decommits.

Having a consistent backcourt featuring 2 legit PGs at all times would be so nice.

If the Cuonzo Martin package includes Charlie Moore & landing Smith, sign me up immediately. This may never happen and will probably be a moot point, but if it were to play out like that... I daresay there would be a log-jam at point guard...weird to think about.

Last edited by Illiniguy13; Feb 17, 2017 at 01:03 PM.
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Old Feb 17, 2017, 01:03 PM   #5838
StateFarmCenter
Quote:
Originally Posted by bert1991 View Post
What chance (if any) do we have of landing Mark Smith (keeping in mind the new offers coming in every day)? Is our chance better or worse with John Groce as our HC (keeping in mind MS previous visits/ growing relationship with current signed recruits/ JG / other staff, etc.)

50%, 10%, 0%?
With JG?
With other? <insert potential candidate>
Cuonzo Martin is recruiting him and it's not to Cal. I'm not sure if it's to Illinois, but it's not to Cal.
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Old Feb 17, 2017, 01:10 PM   #5839
zpfled
Banned
Location: Logan Square, Chicago
Quote:
Originally Posted by Illiniguy13 View Post
If the Cuonzo Martin package includes Charlie Moore & landing Smith, sign me up immediately. This may never happen and will probably be a moot point, but if it were to play out like that... I daresay there would be a log-jam at point guard...weird to think about.
We could easily play 4 PGs who can all handle, score, and shoot (at least shoot enough to be guarded).
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Old Feb 17, 2017, 01:10 PM   #5840
Kajagoogoo
Quote:
Originally Posted by zpfled View Post


This is just my own speculation, but I think that Cuonzo would be able to land Mark Smith if he came to Illinois. I really hope that Frazier still comes to UI next year, but Moore and Smith would sure help if Frazier decommits.

Having a consistent backcourt featuring 2 legit PGs at all times would be so nice.
Gotcha. I'd be extremely surprised to see Moore leave Cal with Cuonzo. JMHO.
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Old Feb 17, 2017, 01:14 PM   #5841
Calvin
Location: Michigan
Quote:
Originally Posted by LisaMarie View Post
There's hot list on the Scout NC State site with many of the same names discussed here...a handy reference of resumes, salaries and buyouts all in one place.


http://www.scout.com/college/north-c...de-s-big-board
Great synopsis, thanks for posting.

This makes me wonder even more how much money we'll pony up. NC State is looking at $3-4 mil. When have we ever paid anywhere close to that? A lot of these guys will move only for a substantial bump, and even then, you don't know if the school they're at will respond. I know JW is a different AD, but our history makes me cringe at the prospect of getting turned down by our A-list.
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Old Feb 17, 2017, 01:31 PM   #5842
WesterveltVictoryCigar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvin View Post
Great synopsis, thanks for posting.

This makes me wonder even more how much money we'll pony up. NC State is looking at $3-4 mil. When have we ever paid anywhere close to that? A lot of these guys will move only for a substantial bump, and even then, you don't know if the school they're at will respond. I know JW is a different AD, but our history makes me cringe at the prospect of getting turned down by our A-list.
Well, we paid a lot more for Lovie than we ever had for a football coach. The question is, was that an overall change in philosophy, or did we use up everything we had on that side of Kirby?
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Old Feb 17, 2017, 01:33 PM   #5843
thebizz81
Quote:
Originally Posted by UofI08 View Post
If Dan Muller is the choice, I initially wouldn't be happy but would give him his fair shot. And if he were to make the tournament and win a game or 2 this year, he'd have a better resume than Groce did when he was hired here. Both are/were around 40 years old. 10+ year assistants at solid D1 programs. Where they differ is that Muller has a better conference performance as a head coach than Groce did. Better conference records and finishes. The only thing Groce had on Muller is NCAA tourney performance.

I honestly had never looked into Muller and still don't really think he's anywhere near the top of a list, or even on the list at all, but he's really not that terrible of an idea. 40 years old. Indiana and Illinois guy. Longtime assistant. Showed improvement, at least in conference, every year. Not far fetched at all to see him jumping to the P5 in the next few years.
Fair enough, I think most of us agree a change should be made, I guess I feel that debating whether a change should be made is a bit irrelevant because I for once actually trust that our AD will make the proper, well-informed decision.
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Old Feb 17, 2017, 01:38 PM   #5844
Fighter of the Nightman
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Location: Iowa City, IA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvin View Post
Great synopsis, thanks for posting.

This makes me wonder even more how much money we'll pony up. NC State is looking at $3-4 mil. When have we ever paid anywhere close to that? A lot of these guys will move only for a substantial bump, and even then, you don't know if the school they're at will respond. I know JW is a different AD, but our history makes me cringe at the prospect of getting turned down by our A-list.
I understand this thought process, but I can't emphasize enough how much of a cancer it has been on Illinois athletics not realizing its VAST inherent potential. RG was cheap as hell, and he ran Illinois athletics like a mom 'n' pop shop, and our results showed it: we might succeed in the short term from time to time, but we never grew. We never showed any inclination of wanting to be OSU or Michigan, and we should have.

Mike Thomas, for all of his faults, pushed the needle in the right direction on this. He probably overpaid for both Groce and Beckman, but it sent an important message: he wanted Illinois to be viewed as a big money school. A school with deep pockets that was committed to being big time in sports. Problem was, apparently, he didn't have the charisma or likability to get donors on board, and that was probably part of his ultimate demise. I believe Whitman has made the final step in this. With the Lovie hire, he showed not only a very impressive commitment to investing heavily in athletics but also in being able to get donors on board to pony up that cash.

I'm optimistic the days of "when have we ever spent money like that?" are long, long over.
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Old Feb 17, 2017, 01:39 PM   #5845
Obelix
Obelix's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by UofI08 View Post
It really depends on which guy you really want. You're not gonna bump a guy from under a mil at a mid-major to 3 mil.
More depends on which guy you can really get. Illinois was wiling and had offered very good and fair packages to both Smart and Stevens. They turned down the job, irrespective of money.
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Old Feb 17, 2017, 01:47 PM   #5846
DoctorofJazz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obelix View Post
More depends on which guy you can really get. Illinois was wiling and had offered very good and fair packages to both Smart and Stevens. They turned down the job, irrespective of money.
That's probably because they already knew about Mike Thomas.
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Old Feb 17, 2017, 01:50 PM   #5847
DoctorofJazz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fighter of the Nightman View Post
I understand this thought process, but I can't emphasize enough how much of a cancer it has been on Illinois athletics not realizing its VAST inherent potential.

Mike Thomas, for all of his faults, pushed the needle in the right direction on this. He probably overpaid for both Groce and Beckman, but it sent an important message: he wanted Illinois to be viewed as a big money school. A school with deep pockets that was committed to being big time in sports. Problem was, apparently, he didn't have the charisma or likability to get donors on board, and that was probably part of his ultimate demise.
Thomas put the cart before the horse. When the product you are selling is mediocre at best to downright bad at the worst, all the chest thumping and ad campaigning in the world won't help fill seats or force people to watch.
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Old Feb 17, 2017, 01:59 PM   #5848
Kathy
Quote:
Originally Posted by StateFarmCenter View Post
Cuonzo Martin is recruiting him and it's not to Cal. I'm not sure if it's to Illinois, but it's not to Cal.
... And you know this "how?"
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Old Feb 17, 2017, 02:00 PM   #5849
sacraig
Mad Scientist
sacraig's Avatar
Location: Arizona, USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fighter of the Nightman View Post
I understand this thought process, but I can't emphasize enough how much of a cancer it has been on Illinois athletics not realizing its VAST inherent potential. RG was cheap as hell, and he ran Illinois athletics like a mom 'n' pop shop, and our results showed it: we might succeed in the short term from time to time, but we never grew. We never showed any inclination of wanting to be OSU or Michigan, and we should have.

Mike Thomas, for all of his faults, pushed the needle in the right direction on this. He probably overpaid for both Groce and Beckman, but it sent an important message: he wanted Illinois to be viewed as a big money school. A school with deep pockets that was committed to being big time in sports. Problem was, apparently, he didn't have the charisma or likability to get donors on board, and that was probably part of his ultimate demise. I believe Whitman has made the final step in this. With the Lovie hire, he showed not only a very impressive commitment to investing heavily in athletics but also in being able to get donors on board to pony up that cash.

I'm optimistic the days of "when have we ever spent money like that?" are long, long over.
I'd have to agree with you. On the business/branding side of things, I really liked the direction Thomas was headed. Ultimately, where he failed was in the two most important functions of his job, which are hiring coaches and selling the program to donors. That's probably because he apparently just wasn't a very personable guy and had a management style that didn't really help him out when trying to convince good coaches to come over.

It kind of makes you wonder how he succeeded at Cincinnati.
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Old Feb 17, 2017, 02:03 PM   #5850
DoctorofJazz
Quote:
Originally Posted by sacraig View Post
I'd have to agree with you. On the business/branding side of things, I really liked the direction Thomas was headed. Ultimately, where he failed was in the two most important functions of his job, which are hiring coaches and selling the program to donors. That's probably because he apparently just wasn't a very personable guy and had a management style that didn't really help him out when trying to convince good coaches to come over.

It kind of makes you wonder how he succeeded at Cincinnati.
He either kissed the right people's behinds and/or they accepted his behaviour because he got results. As far as coaches go they probably put up with it until they could find a better job. BKelly probably got a speeding ticket for leaving Cinci so fast.....
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