I think his point still stands though. You don't need to commit fraud when you can boost your gpa by taking those type of clases (or in theory you shouldn't need to anyway)
North Carolina Academic Fraud Investigation
- Status
I think his point still stands though. You don't need to commit fraud when you can boost your gpa by taking those type of clases (or in theory you shouldn't need to anyway)
DaytonIllini
D
Guest
It seems pretty common-place though. Lots of tutors writing papers, give-away grades, etc.
My son is a freshman at NC this year... his story is that some of the fraternities figured it out early on & a few of the party boys on campus ended up with minors in AA studies because they took so many classes. Also at one point this seemed like it may be the saving grace for the sports program, the fact that it wasn't athletes only takes some of the pressure off.
They opened it up to the general student population to further the appearance of it being a legit course. Which in my mind does nothing of the sort. It was a fraudulent sham from it's inception. For what you call 'party boys' it's a perfect way to get another year or two of the glorious college life! Not to mention college girls!
They opened it up to the general student population to further the appearance of it being a legit course. Which in my mind does nothing of the sort. It was a fraudulent sham from it's inception. For what you call 'party boys' it's a perfect way to get another year or two of the glorious college life! Not to mention college girls!
:thumb:
Part of me wonders if this is the out the NCAA is hoping for wrt to UNC athletics.
While it is primarily an athletics issue, the presence of non-athletes might give the NCAA the wiggle room to not come down with sanctions, or at least hit them with watered down sanctions. You know and I know it is an athletic benefit, but this is the NCAA we are talking about
Edit, sorry I replied before reading the entire thread, so,I did not see the above discussion
Mike
C-U Townie
Don't know if NCAA has the backbone, but if they don't penalize NC in scope similiar to the scope of the violation IMO we need a new association.
Doesn't illinois still have " leisure studies" program? ...always laughed a little when I saw that major...
Deleted member 10676
D
Guest
Saw this on Phog this morning while checking out Cliff's "situation" (nothing there on that but rank speculation running from A to Z) but this is a new article/revelation printed yesterday concerning the ongoing UNC academic fraud situation. In the comment section you've got UNC grads calling for the death penalty for revenue sports but the NCAA still sits on their hands. Amazing.
http://www.newsobserver.com/2015/02/28/4589708_former-unc-official-pressure-led.html?rh=1
http://www.newsobserver.com/2015/02/28/4589708_former-unc-official-pressure-led.html?rh=1
My son is a freshman at UNC, so was there this weekend & they had an article in the college paper on their 2005 team, not real interesting & still a bit too soon for me, but someone might enjoy it.
http://www.dailytarheel.com/article/2015/04/tar-heels-remember-the-2005-ncaa-title-10-years-later
Also found an article saying UNC & NCAA was trying to get the lawsuit from McCant's sister and other athlete dropped when searching for above.
http://www.dailytarheel.com/article/2015/03/ncaa-unc-look-to-toss-mccants-ramsays-case
http://www.dailytarheel.com/article/2015/04/tar-heels-remember-the-2005-ncaa-title-10-years-later
Also found an article saying UNC & NCAA was trying to get the lawsuit from McCant's sister and other athlete dropped when searching for above.
http://www.dailytarheel.com/article/2015/03/ncaa-unc-look-to-toss-mccants-ramsays-case
I'm not an attorney and this is quote is coming from the plaintiff's attorney, but if this is indeed UNC's stance, I think they would have trouble making it with a straight face:
I disagree. This motion to dismiss should be a fairly easy win.
DaytonIllini
D
Guest
Wouldn't every single plaintiff have to be shown to have known the class was fraudulent? That sounds hard to show though I don't always see logic in the way the law works.
JFGsCoffeeMug
BU:1 Trash cans:0
- Chicago
"Should have known" will also get you there. If you can argue it was obvious to everyone who actually participated in the class that the course was fraudulent, the lawsuit won't pass muster by simply arguing certain students failed to connect the dots.
DaytonIllini
D
Guest
Ok, but we have all been in easy classes before. If you only took one there would be no way for that student to know that there was a systematic fraud occurring. Right? I mean wouldn't you have to have been attending many of these classes or at least several to put the dots together?
There's a difference between easy classes and what they offered at UNC. They had to know right away that it was fraudulent.
Which is part of why it's so disgusting. Everyone was involved, and they all knew the consequences (or should have).
The NCAA is not there to right wrongs -just the opposite. The NCAA exists to protect the revenue model of the universities, which as the evidence shows, often involves fraud across the board. So you could reasonably conclude that the police (NCAA) are essentially in on it, although they might also enforce some rules you might agree with.
I just don't see how this could be on the student, though. Even though they "should have known" it is not up to these students to police the university and be whistle blowers. They have no idea how things are run, if classes are basically fake, or if this is how it is in other schools.
If I was an 18 or 19 year old, and I had a class that was like this where I didn't do anything, sure I might wonder, "Is this real?? Do I seriously not have to do ANYTHING??" However, my next thought would probably be, "The university is offering it, there is a an actual "teacher", I'm getting actual credit hours...maybe it's just a cool loophole class and is technically okay."
The onus is not on the student's to disclose this mess as they don't know the workings of a university and are unfamiliar with how all classes are set up. Even if they had a "hunch" or they thought it was obvious this class seemed fake, they may not have the motivation or confidence to speak up.
Someone in the university knew, they had to, and they are lying about it. Anyway, I feel this is mostly on the university, not the students. But it looks like the law would seem to disagree. Which is a shame.
Anyone else thing it is strange that the plaintiff's attorney is a UNC Law professor?
This whole thing just smells of lawyers trying to make some money to me. If you take one class & it is fake it isn't the end of the world...but if you continually take the classes at some point you should figure it out or you probably aren't capable of a real college degree anyway. The whole basketball side of this came from McCant's the brother, shortly before McCant's the sister files a lawsuit. UNC cheated, UNC should be punished, but almost all of the student athletes went with the scam & I have a hard time thinking they or their lawyers deserve money...give them 4 yrs of free college/room & board & call it even.
What are the chances I see a line item on my son's tuition statement under the misc. student fees next semester for law suits supporting African American Studies program next year?
We just need to beat them in football next year.
This whole thing just smells of lawyers trying to make some money to me. If you take one class & it is fake it isn't the end of the world...but if you continually take the classes at some point you should figure it out or you probably aren't capable of a real college degree anyway. The whole basketball side of this came from McCant's the brother, shortly before McCant's the sister files a lawsuit. UNC cheated, UNC should be punished, but almost all of the student athletes went with the scam & I have a hard time thinking they or their lawyers deserve money...give them 4 yrs of free college/room & board & call it even.
What are the chances I see a line item on my son's tuition statement under the misc. student fees next semester for law suits supporting African American Studies program next year?
We just need to beat them in football next year.
Govoner Vaugn Fan
- New Orleans
Saying they didn't know is not an excuse. The whole thing smells like 'Lack of Institutional Control'.
Not that the NCAA will come down hard on UNC, but still.....
Not that the NCAA will come down hard on UNC, but still.....
Oh the NCAA will. Except it's going to be UNC-Greensboro. I was originally going to say UNC-Wilmington, but they just had a postseason ban because of APR a couple of years ago. So my guess is UNC-G will get the hammer this time.
mhuml32
Gesture of Northern Aggression
I still think it is going to be tough for the NCAA to find evidence to push for athletic sanctions. There are serious concerns for the institution as a whole, but, from what I have read, I don't see a strong enough connection to say its inevitable the NCAA will come down.
If I am UNC, they should be more worried about regional accreditation and US Department of Education exploring possibilities to cause pain to the university.
That's not a sham major. When I was there, they had a lot of concentrations within that description. Some were more rigorous than others but I took a few LS classes and they were no blow off courses. What UNC did may be done many places but it is a shameful practice. To take what should be legitimate courses and thoughtful study of a topic and turn it in to a way to pass through students whether athletes or not is a real disservice to so many.
FeelYourPaign
- So Cal
Very strange to me. Not a person that I would retain if I were a plaintiff, which maybe shows that I got an education?
- Status