I agree that fatigue shouldn't be an excuse for us, although we are playing less experienced players. I also believe a year like this should make for mentally tough seniors in a few years from our current Freshmen. Low expectations should be the rule for this year, IMO.
Michigan 78, Illinois 68 POSTGAME
1. The game started out well with the Illini playing better defense than usual by far. As UM warmed up from three, though, we slowly sank into the same defensive lapses that have plagued us most of the season. Getting into a three-point contest with UM was simply not going to work.
2. We made Donnal look like an easy All-Big-Ten player -- not bad for a guy who was averaging under 4 points per game. To say that we have problems on the interior is a major understatement. Credit to UM though for executing a lot of nice plays to get lay-ups against our extended defense.
3. LeVert is back, and he is really good. When UM was struggling he was able to penetrate almost at will to punish us for chasing shooters off the perimeter. Again, issues on our interior defense.
4. Kendrick Nunn did what he could to keep us in the game, not only great offense but also a great block. He had a lot to do with us being up three at the half.
5. JCL had a nice first half, but was less of a factor in the second half. Like many of the younger players, he seemed to lose intensity as the game slipped away.
6. Malcolm Hill was a mere mortal in this game. In fairness, UM has enormous length on defense and that seemed to bother Malcolm in this game. We have to have both Malcolm and Kendrick playing well to be viable in the B1G.
7. Finke faced his first B1G opponent, and he did struggle at times. Even so, he flashed some of the talent we have seen up to this point. Mav did what he could, but defense is a great concern going forward.
8. We got outrebounded 41 to 26, and we can't afford that in the B1G. We have enough athletes to compete on the boards if we make the effort. That stat was a disappointment.
9. Well, it's on to face tOSU in Colombus on Sunday. I am sticking with my 8-10 prediction for now, but this game was not as close as I had hoped it would be. To be honest, UM dominated the game from early in the second half. We need to improve to rescue this season.
Go Illini!
2. We made Donnal look like an easy All-Big-Ten player -- not bad for a guy who was averaging under 4 points per game. To say that we have problems on the interior is a major understatement. Credit to UM though for executing a lot of nice plays to get lay-ups against our extended defense.
3. LeVert is back, and he is really good. When UM was struggling he was able to penetrate almost at will to punish us for chasing shooters off the perimeter. Again, issues on our interior defense.
4. Kendrick Nunn did what he could to keep us in the game, not only great offense but also a great block. He had a lot to do with us being up three at the half.
5. JCL had a nice first half, but was less of a factor in the second half. Like many of the younger players, he seemed to lose intensity as the game slipped away.
6. Malcolm Hill was a mere mortal in this game. In fairness, UM has enormous length on defense and that seemed to bother Malcolm in this game. We have to have both Malcolm and Kendrick playing well to be viable in the B1G.
7. Finke faced his first B1G opponent, and he did struggle at times. Even so, he flashed some of the talent we have seen up to this point. Mav did what he could, but defense is a great concern going forward.
8. We got outrebounded 41 to 26, and we can't afford that in the B1G. We have enough athletes to compete on the boards if we make the effort. That stat was a disappointment.
9. Well, it's on to face tOSU in Colombus on Sunday. I am sticking with my 8-10 prediction for now, but this game was not as close as I had hoped it would be. To be honest, UM dominated the game from early in the second half. We need to improve to rescue this season.
Go Illini!
IlliniDent
- Chicago, IL
This will be true every game this year
The worst thing for any program or team is apathy but I think that is where most Illini fans (I know I am) are at. I still watch but I don't get upset when we blow halftime leads. I was actually thinking at halftime I wonder how long will it take before the lead is gone and Michigan starts pulling away. Injuries stink but those don't change the fact that in 4 years he hasn't gotten 1 BIG quality PG on campus. He also hasn't had any commits from quality high school big men (Black is a stretch 4). He is supposed to be a great recruiter and has both playing time and a brand new arena to use as selling points but he continues to strike out. Even with the injuries this team has had plenty of half time leads only to come out flat out of the locker room and get run off the court. If he sticks around next year which is very likely he really should look at shaking up the staff. The staff as it exists right now isn't very good. They can't recruit Chicago, aren't very good on scouting opponents and Ford's (who I understand manages the lineups) choice of lineup's are puzzling to say the least...
Agree with all of this. We have played this way irregardless of personnel and therefore must be coaching. We know when one of our guys is going to shoot and usually are heading the other way before it leaves their hands. Our offense rarely/never creates a situation where someone gets many points due to easy shots like Michigan and others have done over the years. Not sure which is more to blame, OUR defense or OUR offense. Would love to be wrong and see something different but keep waiting.
IlliniDent
- Chicago, IL
When you aren't as talented as other teams you have to expend a lot more energy. Combine that with no post play where you can dump it in and get some easy baskets means that more often than not as you are more tired your jump shots will be worse and you will miss more. In addition defense is weak already, then you get more tired and now it's that much worse than it was.
It would be different if we were more talented or balanced but we have a lot of flaws on this team.
Deleted member 9739
D
Guest
Our strategy for the season has been set and it is obvious: Shoot threes and if we make a bunch we win and if we don't, well, we weren't going to win because of our injuries anyway.
If you look at the stats for the game, the two teams weren't very different. They made one more 3 than we did, but we evened that out by making three more free throws than they did. So where did they get the 10 point difference? Points in the paint: Michigan 38 Illinois 24.
Michigan scored almost half their points inside and we scored a little more than a third of ours. And remember what Dakich said before the game? "Neither team really has an inside game." Well, Michigan figured it out and found one when we wouldn't guard the lane. Unfortunately we very rarely tried going there. Because that's not our strategy.
If you look at the stats for the game, the two teams weren't very different. They made one more 3 than we did, but we evened that out by making three more free throws than they did. So where did they get the 10 point difference? Points in the paint: Michigan 38 Illinois 24.
Michigan scored almost half their points inside and we scored a little more than a third of ours. And remember what Dakich said before the game? "Neither team really has an inside game." Well, Michigan figured it out and found one when we wouldn't guard the lane. Unfortunately we very rarely tried going there. Because that's not our strategy.
Some of the worst defense i've seen. How many layups and wide open 3's did they have. Frustrating
Stevegarbs
- Mokena, IL
This is at the heart of it. Just keep wishing Groce could work some miracles and make chicken salad out of the chicken siht he has been dealt this year.
Stevegarbs
- Mokena, IL
Serious Late
- Peoria via Denver via Ann Arbor via Albuquerque vi
Well, things Groce could have done to prevent his current situation:
Win 1 recruiting battle amongst his efforts for Jackson, Ratan-Mayes, Alexander, Bragg, Brunson, Evans, Thomas, etc.
Prioritize 50-150 recruits over top 20 recruits at positions of need (i.e. 1 and 5 spots)
Keep Mo Watson's visit on the books instead of cancelling it to go visit Bragg.
Not give Darius Paul a second chance at the expense of Colbert.
Make a change with his assistant coaches.
FULL COURT TRAP late in games when down double digits (or close to double digit deficits).
Improved conditioning to sustain athlete endurance in the second half.
And I am not even calling for Groce's job here. I hope he does survive another year, but I am growing more and more pessimistic he will, as I no longer expect the Illini to surpass 4 conference wins this season. I honestly believe if he can even get this team to 6 conference wins he will keep his job, but at some point there is enough evidence to support the idea that he simply is not a strong coach. His biggest supposed strength is in recruiting and that is certainly not strong enough to compensate for being a below average B1G coach.
The most damning indictment for Groce is the attitudes on this board. You don't even hear the posters calling for his job outright slamming him. The average post calling for his job falls along the lines of "boy, I wish it wasn't true, but it's pretty clear Groce is not a very good coach." Weber's last year, the posts fell more along the lines of calling him, his family, his team, his dog out with vulgar, creative language. It isn't that the neysayers WANT him gone, but holy smokes... this is not okay under any circumstances.
On the bright side, danielb CRUSHED it with the National anthem, kudos!
Win 1 recruiting battle amongst his efforts for Jackson, Ratan-Mayes, Alexander, Bragg, Brunson, Evans, Thomas, etc.
Prioritize 50-150 recruits over top 20 recruits at positions of need (i.e. 1 and 5 spots)
Keep Mo Watson's visit on the books instead of cancelling it to go visit Bragg.
Not give Darius Paul a second chance at the expense of Colbert.
Make a change with his assistant coaches.
FULL COURT TRAP late in games when down double digits (or close to double digit deficits).
Improved conditioning to sustain athlete endurance in the second half.
And I am not even calling for Groce's job here. I hope he does survive another year, but I am growing more and more pessimistic he will, as I no longer expect the Illini to surpass 4 conference wins this season. I honestly believe if he can even get this team to 6 conference wins he will keep his job, but at some point there is enough evidence to support the idea that he simply is not a strong coach. His biggest supposed strength is in recruiting and that is certainly not strong enough to compensate for being a below average B1G coach.
The most damning indictment for Groce is the attitudes on this board. You don't even hear the posters calling for his job outright slamming him. The average post calling for his job falls along the lines of "boy, I wish it wasn't true, but it's pretty clear Groce is not a very good coach." Weber's last year, the posts fell more along the lines of calling him, his family, his team, his dog out with vulgar, creative language. It isn't that the neysayers WANT him gone, but holy smokes... this is not okay under any circumstances.
On the bright side, danielb CRUSHED it with the National anthem, kudos!
This game was just another proof point that you can't win consistently without an inside game, no matter how much people want to glamour about how competent of shooters we have. We can hypothesize how Finke will be a match up nightmare in the B1G at the position but the truth is that Mark Donnal was the match-up nightmare inside today.
Injuries aside, Groce's major problem is not so much his coaching (which I am hopeful will improve) but the fact that in 4 years he has not successfully recruited a single top-100 HS PG or C/post player.
Injuries aside, Groce's major problem is not so much his coaching (which I am hopeful will improve) but the fact that in 4 years he has not successfully recruited a single top-100 HS PG or C/post player.
The Illini have talent, saying this is the worst team in decades is not true. We lost 3 starters in Abrams, Paul, and Thorne that would of given us a physical presence we are missing. Add injuries to Black and Nunn and you have the team we have right now. Hate to say next year, but this trend of injuries can't continue.
No doubt we are missing key parts. Do you see improvement or understranding of what we are trying to do on offense?
And the people on here calling for his head are college basketball experts? If you want to ignore circumstances and only look at final scores, so far this year, he may not be a good coach. But if you look at how other teams are affected by the loss of one player (i.e. MSU, or Duke having problems with Long Beach State today) then being competitive with 3 seniors and a sophomore missing from the roster is not an easy task.
So far Groce has been successful at scheming a game plan to get his teams the lead by half time. If you are winning how much are you going to change what you are doing. It is not half time adjustments that are the problem, it is adjusting to the other teams halftime adjustments during the game where some issue lies. With a full roster, a coach has a lot of tools to use to make these adjustments. With only 8 scholarship players active today and four of those being freshmen, options to make adjustments are very limited. But then again many of the experts on here look no further than the won-loss record for validation of their opinions.
Soxfreak64
- Bloomington
Face it folks, our Illini aren't very good this year.
1. Projected starting PG, PF, and C all hurt
2. Have faced numerous smaller injuries thus far
3. No interior defense
4. Little size
5. No rebounds
6. Frequent spurts of poor energy
7. Inability to make/execute halftime adjustments
8. Lack of High Major PG talent
9. Over-reliance on 3pt shot
10. Stunningly poor fundamentals
Some of it is on the coaching staff. Some of it is on the players. Altogether, it means the Illini will be lucky to win 8 conference games this year barring the miraculous return and resurgence of Leron & Bo.
I was shocked at the amount of optimists in the B1G Prediction thread this year, but I think you'll have to accept reality here shortly. I'd be surprised if we don't start 0-4.
1. Projected starting PG, PF, and C all hurt
2. Have faced numerous smaller injuries thus far
3. No interior defense
4. Little size
5. No rebounds
6. Frequent spurts of poor energy
7. Inability to make/execute halftime adjustments
8. Lack of High Major PG talent
9. Over-reliance on 3pt shot
10. Stunningly poor fundamentals
Some of it is on the coaching staff. Some of it is on the players. Altogether, it means the Illini will be lucky to win 8 conference games this year barring the miraculous return and resurgence of Leron & Bo.
I was shocked at the amount of optimists in the B1G Prediction thread this year, but I think you'll have to accept reality here shortly. I'd be surprised if we don't start 0-4.
Well, it happened again. A loss. I am thankful every game that we still have talented players devoted to the program and giving effort out there.
It would be SO easy to give up and they haven't done it yet. Think of these kids' expectations coming in and what they have to look forward to. They may even have to live through a coaching change, and I bet we'll see them in orange and blue on the other side.
It's gonna be a tough year. THANK YOU for the effort, fellas. Go get 'em.
It would be SO easy to give up and they haven't done it yet. Think of these kids' expectations coming in and what they have to look forward to. They may even have to live through a coaching change, and I bet we'll see them in orange and blue on the other side.
It's gonna be a tough year. THANK YOU for the effort, fellas. Go get 'em.
I was thinking the same thing. Not very many games I have had the feelin that Groce out-coached the opposiiton.
MrOizo
- Chicago
Pretty damning of the players and coaches. What he described is something that is terrible to watch on TV, too...
Can anyone give a true defense of Groce. Not the "he's has injuries...he deserves time...people like his personality" comments but an actual true defense him. What does he do well? Of what he does do well, what gives you hope he can get this program back the final 4?