There are still people today who insist Lou was ignored by the players on the '89 team and they just won games on their own.
John Groce at Illinois
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There are still people today who insist Lou was ignored by the players on the '89 team and they just won games on their own.
Deleted member 10676
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There are still people today who insist Lou was ignored by the players on the '89 team and they just won games on their own.
LOL. no doubt.
Based on these comments, you seem to represent a lot of the people here in the fire Groce camp. The problem with your argument is that it looks at things out of context. You can not pretend that the injuries and setbacks did not happen. They did and have resulted in progress that is not as fast as some people would have hoped. The situation is not as black and white as you paint it. If this year's team was constructed as had been expected, they would not be missing the tournament 3 years in a row and we probably wouldn't even be having this conversation.
An expectation that this team should be competing for B1G championships and safely in the tournament was probably optimistic from the beginning. I don't think a 5th year is too much to ask to see if the team can build on the progress made. No one is happy with the situation as it now exists but it really doesn't make much sense to start over when the seeds are in place for a turn around. There is tangible progress. If you can't see this, I can't help you.
There are still people today who insist Lou was ignored by the players on the '89 team and they just won games on their own.
That was Kendall Gill's team! He called all of the shots!
Like JG says...he thinks we are lucky because we have fans that care (despite negativity).
Today's fans have even less patience than the LH early days, unfortunately.
Deleted member 10676
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Going back to the '89 team. People either forget or are too young to remember we lost Kendall Gill to a serious foot injury and even though we had guys like Larry Small, Marcus Liberty and Andy Kaufmann on the bench we were 4-4 with just Kendall out. 27-1 with him. I don't remember the exact year, but we lost Altenberger to a season ending injury and it pretty much ended any chance we had of having an exceptional season that year. Losing key players affects any team, even a team greater than this one. Having been a fan since the Slush Fund days I can never remember a rash of injuries, severe injuries, like this year.
It's crazy to expect the team and Groce to just soldier on like nothing happened and be fighting to get into the top 5 or so of the B1G.
It's crazy to expect the team and Groce to just soldier on like nothing happened and be fighting to get into the top 5 or so of the B1G.
Pretty much nailed it IMO. The injuries are everything. Some posters are using the Wins and losses as their argument to fire Groce, but just ignore the injuries like they play no part. Shall I repeat it for like hundredth time this year, THE INJURIES ARE EVERYTHING. There's no way around that.
I think people realize injuries are a valid excuse. But the fact is this is John Groce's 8th year. His conference record in either league is not good. Its unreasonable to expect extreme improvement in that area. If he had better past success than he would get a pass no problem. Also, I think people saw the potential red flag when Illinois hired him. However, I was of the mindset that he was a young energetic guy who would learn from his mistakes and get better. Nobody knows how this team would look healthy.
89illinigrad
- Chicago
Depends on who you think we could get as our new coach. The key to any good team is recruiting. Do you think we can land a hot coach, like Self was when we hired him, who can immediately come in here and hit the ground running on the recruiting trail and start landing top 15 classes immediately?
Or do you think its more realistic that we will land another mid-major type coach, even coach Drew from Valpo, who, despite their "connections", will still have to build relationships with the top players in the state when they are freshman or sophomores, just so that he has 50/50 shot of convincing them to come here instead of some blue blood program?
I'm tired of people knocking Groce for his recruiting. For all the love that Self gets for being such a great recruiter, he landed just 6 top 100 players (Nick Smith, Powell, Dee, Deron, Augie and McBride) in his first 4 years (granted 4 of those guys were the nucleus of the 2005 team). Groce has landed 4 (Nunn, Black, JCL and DJW) and kept Hill committed (so 5), while also getting us into the mix for several top 25 recruits, all with much less to sell than Self.
Now, with a great start to the 2017 class and the potential for it to be a huge class, if Tilmon and Goodwin commit, people want to fire Groce and start again from scratch. Whereas, if they can just be patient for one more year, I think they will finally see the fruits of all of Groce's labor.
I believe, by this time next year, we will see a top 25 team, a top 15 (with the potential to be top 10 with Tilmon) recruiting class and people telling Whitman to extend Groce before some other team comes calling.
I seem to recall a year in the not real distant past where we lost our "1" guard and the season went down the drain. One guy. (Can't remember the specifics and I am unwilling to research, so I may be off)
Deleted member 10676
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Steve Lanter. 1979. How did I forget that?
http://www.illinoisloyalty.com/Forums/archive/index.php/t-2919.html
I pretty much agree. There's a striking lack of nuanced views here. I'm on the side of keeping him (and I think that's what will happen). However, IF our AD had a top guy in mind that we knew we could get to coach us, I'd be for letting JG go and getting that other guy. The thing is I don't think that's our situation right now.
I think right now we have to make the best of a non-optimal situation and IMO that is to continue with JG as coach.
mattcoldagelli
- The Transfer Portal with Do Not Contact Tag
Spot on, mike, I think Lantner was another one
Deleted member 10676
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Larry Smith....
:thumb:Right? Larry Smith and Ervin Small. First the years start to meld together, then the faces, then the names ---- it's a !!!!! getting old.
I hear ya brother.
icengineer
- Southern Illinois
I hope you are correct about next year. And if that happens it's likely Groce gets an extension. But it won't be because top tier programs come calling. It will take more than one solid season at Illinois to get a higher level program interested in poaching him.
OrangeBlazer
- Atlanta
Whitman should have enough evidence to make the call now about keeping Groce, and should do so to help sway recruits. Assuming Groce is staying, a resounding endorsement (without a contract extension) could stop other programs from spreading FUD. And Whitman, could always change his story next season based on results if needed.
homesickalien
- Springfield
We land one recruit and all of the sudden everyone is coming out of the woodwork with all these positives vibes.
Williams was a big get and exactly what we're missing, but he would have been here whoever the coach was. It's a step in the right direction, but the program still has a long way to go. I love optimism as much as the next guy, but let's be realistic with expectations. This team next year isn't going to be a top 25 team and likely their ceiling will be making it in the back end of the NCAA tournament.
Getting a strong 2017 class goes without saying, but we'll still be missing to many pieces to be that good in 2017. Even if we land Tilmon we still won't have enough big guys.
I still don't believe Groce is the guy as I don't have any confidence he can keep us in the top 4-5 of the Big Ten on a regular basis. He deserves to be fired after this year, but having said that the right decision will be to keep him for at least one more year. It really is a strange situation. Hopefully Groce proves me wrong and he brings the Illini back to prominence, but I think he's a guy that dreams big and finishes small.
At the least I don't see how we don't have a staff shakeup after this year. The big question is who gets the boot? We really need a strong X and O guy that can be the right hand man to Groce. I'd replace Ford with someone with a lot of big time experience.
Williams was a big get and exactly what we're missing, but he would have been here whoever the coach was. It's a step in the right direction, but the program still has a long way to go. I love optimism as much as the next guy, but let's be realistic with expectations. This team next year isn't going to be a top 25 team and likely their ceiling will be making it in the back end of the NCAA tournament.
Getting a strong 2017 class goes without saying, but we'll still be missing to many pieces to be that good in 2017. Even if we land Tilmon we still won't have enough big guys.
I still don't believe Groce is the guy as I don't have any confidence he can keep us in the top 4-5 of the Big Ten on a regular basis. He deserves to be fired after this year, but having said that the right decision will be to keep him for at least one more year. It really is a strange situation. Hopefully Groce proves me wrong and he brings the Illini back to prominence, but I think he's a guy that dreams big and finishes small.
At the least I don't see how we don't have a staff shakeup after this year. The big question is who gets the boot? We really need a strong X and O guy that can be the right hand man to Groce. I'd replace Ford with someone with a lot of big time experience.
I guess the strident people on both sides just get my attention more.
I'm right where you are. Still not convinced Groce can get it done. That being said, he's probably back next year and I hope we are top 25. However, I'd bet against it. I think we will be on the bubble.
I just hope we are healthy so we can fairly judge Groce without the excuses.
Deleted member 10676
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and I said the Illini tanked without him --where?
I said a team that went 27-1 with him went 4-4 without him even with some very good players on the bench. So, ok, my memory isn't the best, but a team that went 23-1 with him went 8-4 without him. Still quite a difference. Losing key players whether they're future NBA stars or not severely disrupts a team and it stands to reason losing multiple key players only makes it worse. And it doesn't matter who the coach is.
I don't think anyone knows whether Groce is da man yet, but saying he isn't based primarily on this season is ridiculous.
I am with you Mike. I can recall "I'm Thru With Lou" bumper stickers, and he didn't have to contend with the injuries. If you hire a guy to do the job, give him the chance to do it. People forget last year was almost as bad as this one for injuries, etc. The only real reason one can give for firing Groce at this point is that he has to be the unluckiest bastard to ever coach in the B1G.
89illinigrad
- Chicago
The beauty of this site (or any fan site for that matter), is that people can come on here and share their opinions on where they think the team is at and where its headed. I'm obviously an optimist and you're obviously a pessimist when it comes to Groce and the basketball program.
The thing is that, even with all of the injuries, having a bunch of freshmen playing significant minutes and learning on the fly, and having very little depth, we've been able to stay in most game this year. 9 of our losses have been by 10 or less pts. Other than our games against IU and MSU, we've been in every game and have just faded in the second half.
If we had a healthy Thorne and Black in the middle to shore up our atrocious rebounding, I think we could have won all 9 of those games, including 6 in the BIG, putting us at 22-7 and 11-5, tied for second and guess what, all of those teams at 11-5 are ranked.
So, I don't see it as too much of a stretch to expect our team to be ranked next year and in the top half of the BIG. We're only losing Lewis, who we can replace with TJL and (hopefully) a healthy Abrams, and maybe Thorne (if he doesn't get a waiver). But, assuming Black is back and MM and Finke can add some more muscle, we should be OK inside.
If we were getting blown out by every team in the BIG, I would be as pessimistic about a turnaround as you are, but the fact that we've been decimated by injuries and have still managed to stay in most games, leads me to believe that, when healthy, we could be pretty good, and that is why I'm optimistic about next year.
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