Abrams should be back, but Thorne is still a question mark. We should find out sometime in April, 6th year decisions are usually on an accelerated schedule.
Penn State 86, Illinois 79 2OT POSTGAME
- Status
Abrams should be back, but Thorne is still a question mark. We should find out sometime in April, 6th year decisions are usually on an accelerated schedule.
89illinigrad
- Chicago
There's a difference between designing a good offense and executing that offense. Not saying that Groce's offense is great, but I also don't think the players always do a good job running the offense.
Is that right? OMdearG that's the worst I've ever seen. One assist per 10 minutes of basketball? Just can't watch that style of play (and didn't). Not good for the heart.
Okay guys, here is an analysis of Nunn pre and post baby. Stats presented as pre/post:
Minutes: 34.7/35.2
FG%: .474/.380
2P%: .548/.389
3P%: .455/.353
FTA: 2.9/2.2
AST: 2.7/.85
STL: 1.3/1.3
TO: 1.6/1.9
PPG: 18.5/14.1
Edit: This does not include today's stats vs. Penn St. Which would have brought all post #s down slightly.
Less aggressive (lower FTA) Less efficient (all around shooting percentage). But probably a higher level of overall competition in the post-baby stats.
Still, take it FWIW!!
Minutes: 34.7/35.2
FG%: .474/.380
2P%: .548/.389
3P%: .455/.353
FTA: 2.9/2.2
AST: 2.7/.85
STL: 1.3/1.3
TO: 1.6/1.9
PPG: 18.5/14.1
Edit: This does not include today's stats vs. Penn St. Which would have brought all post #s down slightly.
Less aggressive (lower FTA) Less efficient (all around shooting percentage). But probably a higher level of overall competition in the post-baby stats.
Still, take it FWIW!!
Last edited:
I agree that they may not always be running it as designed and things would be slightly better if we had more players in the rotation (not as tired late in the game). On the other hand, this isn't a one game exception. The injuries are what they are and JG has had a lot of time to make adjustments to compensate. I know we have injuries, but I truly believe that we still have enough talent on the floor to win more games than we have. Even if we get back to full strength, I would still argue that his offense will result in a high volume of jump shots and three pointers.
I agree with those of you who point out the stagnant nature of our offense. I would really love to see it run by a point guard who can both score from the outside and penetrate and score/dish. I really hope that Lucas is that guy because JCL can be some kind of threat if he could get open looks. On another point, one of the more disappointing things lately has been how Finke has regressed. His outside shot has deserted him and he seems to be afraid to put it up when he gets the ball in the block.
After saying that for 4 YEARS... it's hard to say that it is the players... the offense is in need of change, at least tweaked - it is not working.
Having a baby ain't for babies, that's for sure. =/
sdfidaho
- Boise, Idaho
Maybe it is the hip that's bothering Nunn. So many times he looks to drive to the basket, but can't get past his man, so he pulls up and backs back out.
He seems to have lost a step and his jumpers are more often than not short. Maybe because he can't elivate like he's used to.
He seems to have lost a step and his jumpers are more often than not short. Maybe because he can't elivate like he's used to.
BP43 I presume
43 pts. BP's jr. year against tOSU.
Hello, first time poster here . However , I played the game ( OK division 2 ) and I was a point guard even though it was over 30 years ago . The game hasn't changed . I can remember many times our coach would draw up what seemed like a perfect play as time was running out . To this day I can't believe it but the other team usually had a defense that prevented us from doing what coach had designed . Point being that just because some posters don't like plays they see a crucial times it just has to be Groces fault . Wrong , the other team is supposed to try to stop you from doing what you want . For some , their hatred of Groce has eaten them up to the point that any and every thing that doesn't go right must be Groces fault , and no amount of reasoning will change that
Does giving the ball to Malcolm at the top of the key to go 1 on 1 even constitute a "play"? I don't know the answer, but whatever you want to call it, I can't recall a single end-of-half/end-of-game/end-of-OT situation this year where we did anything other than give Hill the ball up top to go Michael Jordan. And in how many of those situations -- there have been many this year -- did we even get a decent shot off, let alone make one? In a very few instances there's not been enough time to run through the offense, but most times there is plenty. And we just let MH dribble the clock down way too far before he does his thing, which he is not good at in these scenarios. The difference between having him do this in the middle of a game with a full 30 second clock and having him do it with time running down in critical situations is huge. Everyone including the tsar of Russia knows the play. Why? Because it's the only thing we ever do in that scenario. The defense knows it's Malcolm dribbling to get a shot off, period. I remember a game mid-year where we got the ball with a chance to win at the end, Malcolm had it and starting running the O, but it was right in front of Groce and Groce halted the play, and motioned Malcolm to the top of the key, where he dribbled the clock down and couldn't get a shot off. Rant over, but can anyone explain this -- why you never try anything else, especially when it's never worked?
IF ONLY we would see that!
I don't think anyone here HATES Groce...I think nearly everyone on here likes the guy and wants to see him succeed...however they do question (rightfully so) the X's and O's decisions that we see. Given that we don't have an effective point guard our end of game "play" consists of Malcolm dribbling until there are 5 or so seconds left on the clock while everybody else on the team stands there watching him which allows him to be double or triple teamed when he realizes he's going to have to try to win the game by himself. Again. It's only happened 6 or 7 times this year. It's not an isolated occurrence, it's a pattern. It's pretty easy for an opposing coach to draw up a defense for that "play".
This is not Malcolm's fault. I WANT our stud player to have the ball in his hands as the clock runs out. What would be better is if the ball wasn't in his hands for the entirety of the final 10 to 15 seconds. I'd like him to be on the receiving end of a pass after he runs around a couple of screens for an open shot, but this doesn't happen because we don't have the players to execute a play like that and they're apparently not coached up to do that because we sure haven't seen it. Whose fault IS it? Give me some reasoning. I'm a Groce guy, but I've seen this "play" too many times this season.
darn near the school record of 3 assists and that was in 40 minutes. Lots of hero ball out there today.....I'll get mine!!
dsboyce
- Golden, IL
I was there at the Bryce Jordan Center and leaving the game I got the distinct feeling that the PSU fans left with the feeling they just barely escaped. The vibe I picked up from the crowd around me during the second overtime was one of disbelief when the shots didn't go in. I hate moral victories, but this was a closer game than the final score showed--double overtime remember--and it was a tough one to lose in person.
Oh, btw, an orange CHIEF sweatshirt really shows up on the jumbotron in the middle of crowd of Penn State blue and white.
Oh, btw, an orange CHIEF sweatshirt really shows up on the jumbotron in the middle of crowd of Penn State blue and white.I was there at the Bryce Jordan Center and leaving the game I got the distinct feeling that the PSU fans left with the feeling they just barely escaped. The vibe I picked up from the crowd around me during the second overtime was one of disbelief when the shots didn't go in. I hate moral victories, but this was a closer game than the final score showed--double overtime remember--and it was a tough one to lose in person.
Way to represent on the road!
The problem with this line of thinking is that fact that they are projected starters not returning All Americans so you can truly only use players that didn't the previous year as a excuse for so long.
CrazedUIFan
UI Fan in QC Land
There is some truth to this, but it's also up to the coach to make sure they are executing plays. If it's a consistent problem, then it's on the coach. This team has played together the entire season. I realize there are injuries, but they've played most of the year without those injured players. I would also add that it isn't just this year. For the record, I want Groce to succeed here. I really hope he can prove he can coach at a high level next year, without any excuses.
pretty good take. An actual POV from a player perspective.
FWIW?...Interesting
Baby or no baby, Conference brings another level of game planning and familiarity with players. Picking poisons as the opposition. Maybe locking down the secondary players while letting Malcolm gets his is a better plan. No doubt the better teams like Iowa, Indiana, Mi State have better defenders to throw at him and that is reflected in those stat lines. To just throw out the numbers pre and post child and not factor in Non Con vs Conference games is a bit misleading to me. There are lots of ways to analyze and I am not saying the young one is not a distraction on top of school,the injury and everything else. Similar conversations on Louisville's boards in the mid 2000s with a player and a child. Not giving him a pass but not quite ready to assume the addition to the family is the sole reason for a statistical difference
Last edited:
I keep reading this, people ( and not to single you out ) saying they aren't running plays , they are . Of course there are the mis-guided one on one trips down the floor which I hate ending in a wasted possesion . The problem is who has the ball when these plays start . Here is a prime example . First play of the game and they run this play a lot , is a double baseline screen where say Nunn comes from the right side gets a screen under the right side of the hoop . He continues across the baseline for a screen from Mav, and comes out to the left wing . He gets the ball there and the Mav follows him out to the left side . Now , Mav sets another pick for him to drive to the elbow or back baseline depending on how the defense plays it . Either way it works 75% of the time for a pick n roll or pop .This is where the problem begins
OK , now Nunn can drive or drive and dish . Who on the team is the best ballhandler /passer ? Well in a perfect world it would be your point guard . Lewis , and he means well, is a horrible passer and not much better off the dribble . Tate , so so passer and a little better with the dribble . Both of there defenders have by now sagged back clogging the lane because they can't or won't shoot . Hill , if he has the ball can sometimes get to the lane , but is usually double teamed and he's not the greatest passer . What it boils down to is Illinois needs a POINT GUARD and Groce doesn't have one .
Now you can blame Groce for getting Snider to commit and bail, or for Abrams to get hurt in yrs. 2 and 3 , and for not signing another pt. guard if you want . But no matter how you slice it , he has zero pt. guards . He'll have one next year and you'll see the difference .
- Status