Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread (September 2016)

[CoachSS]

I'm simply here to talk basketball if you were referring to me.

Also you said "thank you tho" to the premise they play the same position. Can I ask how you feel this way? Have you seen both play with regularity?

I ask because I have seen them both quite a bit and don't feel this way whatsoever. And I think it makes for a good discussion.

 

[Joel Goodson]

If Wilkes chooses IU, he's going to play PF predominantly his freshman year. Kind of at cross purposes with his stated desire to play SF, no? Then there's the bit about actions and words and keeping it real. Wonder what that meant?

Lots of reasons to pick the home school. Wouldn't surprise most here. However, it certainly looks like he's doing due diligence.

 

[Illinoy]

Wilkes/Smith Position

I think people here get too caught up on positions in a traditional sense. In this day in age, coaches are recruiting skillsets. Are some of those skillsets usually aligned with certain positions - yes. Do certain positions always fulfill particular skillsets - no.

Both are elite finishers in transition which helps a great deal for the pace IU likes to play at. I'd give Smith the bounce edge over Wilkes. I think of Smith as being three and D guy right now, but if he gets better with putting the ball on the deck and scoring efficiently in the half court, he's going to be phenomenal. Wilkes has more skills in terms of half-court scoring. In essence, he is more capable of playing the four at times than Smith and will face up on the baseline. All in all, these two players can co-exist on the court with ease.

I would have loved for either Wilkes or Smith at Illinois.

 

[TCTORNADO]

If Wilkes chooses IU, he's going to play PF predominantly his freshman year. Kind of at cross purposes with his stated desire to play SF, no? Then there's the bit about actions and words and keeping it real. Wonder what that meant?

Lots of reasons to pick the home school. Wouldn't surprise most here. However, it certainly looks like he's doing due diligence.

But more reasons to pick Illinois. Once again JCL's extended family cannot be underestimated on this one. For those of you who have seen them in the family section @ SFC, you know what I mean. KAW has one too!! Got to trust Groce on this one, he got us to this position against all odds, right?? :thumb:
The one that baffles me is Paul Scruggs. I can't figure that one out.

 

[Chris Yates]

If Kiir wants in, the ride is his, IMO. I agree, we're not going to wait. Bird in the hand...

The VCU fanbase is a salty bunch. I went up with a tweet about VCU now having 2 committed power forwards in 2017 and how that made Kiir to VCU perhaps less likely. Even though I didn't hashtag VCU, they found the tweet and jumped all over me, declaring that their current 2017 commits make Kiir to VCU MORE likely. Apparently they're going to run a one-out, four-in offense in a few years with 4 power forwards on the floor at the same time.

 

[Kathy]

Is there a time line, or educated guess, on when any of the these four (that we're discussing) will commit?

 

[Greensboro]

The VCU fanbase is a salty bunch. I went up with a tweet about VCU now having 2 committed power forwards in 2017 and how that made Kiir to VCU perhaps less likely. Even though I didn't hashtag VCU, they found the tweet and jumped all over me, declaring that their current 2017 commits make Kiir to VCU MORE likely. Apparently they're going to run a one-out, four-in offense in a few years with 4 power forwards on the floor at the same time.

Their situation looks a bit similar to ours where they really need to reload at big, according to verbal commits they have 4 bigs in 2017, but drop to 2 in 2018 (only their current 2017 commits left) vs our 3 & 3 on paper.

http://www.verbalcommits.com/schools/vcu

 

[CoachSS]

I think people here get too caught up on positions in a traditional sense. In this day in age, coaches are recruiting skillsets. Are some of those skillsets usually aligned with certain positions - yes. Do certain positions always fulfill particular skillsets - no.

Both are elite finishers in transition which helps a great deal for the pace IU likes to play at. I'd give Smith the bounce edge over Wilkes. I think of Smith as being three and D guy right now, but if he gets better with putting the ball on the deck and scoring efficiently in the half court, he's going to be phenomenal. Wilkes has more skills in terms of half-court scoring. In essence, he is more capable of playing the four at times than Smith and will face up on the baseline. All in all, these two players can co-exist on the court with ease.

I would have loved for either Wilkes or Smith at Illinois.

Your point is accurate about the transition. Both are high-flyers. I think Wilkes drifts a bit more in settled offense and has regularly hinted he is a "3" man where someone like Smith seems to operate a touch more on the baseline in settled offense which, to me, tells me he is a lot more of a stretch 4-man.

 

[Joel Goodson]

Your point is accurate about the transition. Both are high-flyers. I think Wilkes drifts a bit more in settled offense and has regularly hinted he is a "3" man where someone like Smith seems to operate a touch more on the baseline in settled offense which, to me, tells me he is a lot more of a stretch 4-man.

Stretch 4? That's a stretch. Smith can play as a 4, albeit an undersized one. But will he be happy in a role that clearly is not best suited for his talents? Obviously, hard to project kids, but I see Smith as a guy who pays his dues and then have a big role as an upperclassman.

Wilkes and Smith could easily coexist on the floor together. Whether they actually get tick together, especially early in their careers, I'm extremely dubious.

 

[Joel Goodson]

Is there a time line, or educated guess, on when any of the these four (that we're discussing) will commit?

The two wings will sign in the Early Signing Period. Epperson in the Spring. Kiir, unknown. Sure hoping for the fall though.

 

[Combo]

All, I promise I come here in peace.

Just want to touch up a bit on Kris Wilkes.

I've seen a few posts suggesting Illinois may get him and they are in prime position. While I certainly applaud John for the work he has done behind the scenes and openly (especially in regards to staying in the ear of Kris' personal instructor) I think that the enthusiasm should be tempered a bit.

Wilkes' high school coach has said privately he's fairly certain that Wilkes will go to Indiana and even his own father suggested a quite a bit of surprise about UCLA being a finalist.

As most have correctly said, no lineup or returning starters will have any bearing on Wilkes' decision. When you are that good, you go to a school and you play. End of story.

Having had the chance to see Smith and Wilkes multiple times, I can say, categorically, that they will be playing together and not competing for time. Smith is a guy the IU staff can slowly bring along whereas Wilkes will walk in and start at the "3" right away.

I am here to talk Illinois basketball. I'm a big fan of John and really hoping he turns the corner this coming season and desperately hoping everyone stays healthy.

I come here to help shed some light on some of the recruiting stuff that I know about.

That is one of the weaker attempts at pretending to be an Illini fan that I have seen!

 

[CoachSS]

Stretch 4? That's a stretch. Smith can play as a 4, albeit an undersized one. But will he be happy in a role that clearly is not best suited for his talents? Obviously, hard to project kids, but I see Smith as a guy who pays his dues and then have a big role as an upperclassman.

Wilkes and Smith could easily coexist on the floor together. Whether they actually get tick together, especially early in their careers, I'm extremely dubious.

Stretch I used mistakenly. I remember when Indiana had Christian Watford. Watford was 6'8 or so but was never much of a "4" man though that was his position, by default, because they had Zeller.

I think Smith will plant himself out wide in a 4-out offense because he, or Wilkes, or most for that matter, won't be the "C"

 

[Joel Goodson]

Stretch I used mistakenly. I remember when Indiana had Christian Watford. Watford was 6'8 or so but was never much of a "4" man though that was his position, by default, because they had Zeller.

I think Smith will plant himself out wide in a 4-out offense because he, or Wilkes, or most for that matter, won't be the "C"

Smith's problems as a 4 will have little or nothing to do with offense.

 

[CoachSS]

Smith's problems as a 4 will have little or nothing to do with offense.

I agree. He will need another 10-12 lbs and will need to show quite a bit more interest throughout the course of games.

 

[combes]

I agree. He will need another 10-12 lbs and will need to show quite a bit more interest throughout the course of games.

I have seen them both. Smith more than Wilkes. Smith is a three. If he plays the four, you are going to suffer defensively and on the boards, imo. Wilkes has been adamant about playing the three. If they both go to IU, Wilkes will be the guy at the three. Smith will come off the bench until Wilkes leaves. Obviously, traditional positions don't always apply, but when push comes to shove, someone has to rebound. It would not surprise me if Crean lies to one of them about where they will play and then will give them the "best for the team" speech once they are on campus. I expect that Crean is at least a little worried about Illinois in that he is using negative recruiting against Groce.

I have heard that Wilkes' parents are not big fans of Crean. The family appears to be a very close one. Watching their interaction at the Illinois official, it appears that the family will be much more involved in the recruiting decision than, say, his high school coach.

I expect that he will choose IU, but it would not shock me to see him go elsewhere, either.

 

[Joel Goodson]

I have seen them both. Smith more than Wilkes. Smith is a three. If he plays the four, you are going to suffer defensively and on the boards, imo. Wilkes has been adamant about playing the three. If they both go to IU, Wilkes will be the guy at the three. Smith will come off the bench until Wilkes leaves. Obviously, traditional positions don't always apply, but when push comes to shove, someone has to rebound.

This.

I have heard that Wilkes' parents are not big fans of Crean. The family appears to be a very close one. Watching their interaction at the Illinois official, it appears that the family will be much more involved in the recruiting decision than, say, his high school coach.

I expect that he will choose IU, but it would not shock me to see him go elsewhere, either.

Which is why some Illinois fans have more than a glimmer of hope that Groce will land him.

 

[BillMo]

That is one of the weaker attempts at pretending to be an Illini fan that I have seen!

its one of your weaker attempts to make someone look stupid
he said he came in peace, that's him saying i'm not a fan an illini fan but not trying to start trouble, he also says he like JG but not once the Illini so get off your high horse for a change and read what all is said not just what you want to try to pick at

 

[OldGreg]

Don't think we can afford to wait on Epperson. Nice as he might be we don't have the luxury. I hope some other C prospect pops on our offer long before he gets things figured out. I'm not sure where we stand on Kiir's list but but I hope we are up in the top 3. Waiting until the spring for Epperson might be what lands him a blue blood type offer.

How do you figure we can't wait? Kiir has stated he's not going to commit soon. Plus we could honestly take them both. Also, if we wait and miss on Epperson or both, oh well. Get you one or two 5th year transfers and add the scholarships to 2018, where we are in good with a plethora of highly regarded prospects.

 

[Johnny Lawrence]

I have seen them both. Smith more than Wilkes. Smith is a three. If he plays the four, you are going to suffer defensively and on the boards, imo. Wilkes has been adamant about playing the three. If they both go to IU, Wilkes will be the guy at the three. Smith will come off the bench until Wilkes leaves. Obviously, traditional positions don't always apply, but when push comes to shove, someone has to rebound. It would not surprise me if Crean lies to one of them about where they will play and then will give them the "best for the team" speech once they are on campus.

Without ever seeing either, why would they only be able to co-exist as a 3 and 4 and not a 2 and 3? That would seem like a more likely transition for true wings.

 

[BillMo]

How do you figure we can't wait? Kiir has stated he's not going to commit soon. Plus we could honestly take them both. Also, if we wait and miss on Epperson or both, oh well. Get you one or two 5th year transfers and add the scholarships to 2018, where we are in good with a plethora of highly regarded prospects.

I think your right I think we have 4 guys left in 17 we will take the first 2 that say yes but I don't think it matters if its fall or spring, I am sure we would like to get 2 before early signing but I don't think we are in a rush nor do we need to be

 

[Obelix]

The paradox with most passionate fan bases (not just our own) is that they easily rationalize things for themselves but refuse to rationalize for others. We have a very crowded field at the "wing" positions (SG/SF - which is actually the closest IMO in terms of required skills) with JCL, Williams, Pickett, Jordan, DJW, and Kipper. But many fans were making very strong posts rationalizing adding Goodwin AND Lewis on top of that group. So it is OK to add Goodwin, Lewis, or now Wilkes on top of our crowded wing group, because we will use them "flexibly" but others (e.g., IU) won't be able to even though they may have less people at the wing.

Truth is that IU has less of a crowded field at the wings, and OG has been touted as a pretty high draft pick (higher than Hill actually). Some had even hinted that he could have left this year, but there are very good chances he is gone next year. So IU actually needs to recruit the position.

Nobody can be sure about what Crean and recruits have discussed, but if I had to guess, IU is selling more the opportunity to play together at 2-3, than any of Wilkes/Smith moving to the 4. I have seen both, Smith more times, but it is definitely to Smith's best interest to stay more of 2-3 than 3-4.

Having said that, the timing of Smith's announcement is kind of strange IMO. I would have expected that he waited if he knew Wilkes would be coming along.

 

[Deleted member 10676]

[FONT=&quot]Joe Henricksen ‏@joehoopsreport 1h1 hour ago [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]#Northwestern picks up a big piece as 6-4 guard Anthony Gaines of New Hampton Prep commits to coach Chris Collins and the Wildcats.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]3-star, #149 24/7 composite. Final 6 also included Dayton, Michigan, Butler, Cincinnati and Providence. [/FONT]

 

[AkronHoosier]

As an IU fan, I do not see Smith in any way scaring Wilkes away. If we get Wilkes he would easily slot in as the starting 3 with Juwan Morgan as the 4 and De'Ron Davis at the 5, assuming OG leaves after this year. If OG comes back, he'd take Morgan's spot at the 4. We just need to land a back-up 5 for Davis. Plus, in Crean's offense the 4 is a SF anyways. Look at Troy Williams, he would often bring the ball up the court as the 4 man. Also, if Collin Hartman can be successful playing the 4 in our system I don't see why Smith can't. I don't see Smith at the four hurting us on the boards as we often rely on guards to crash the boards for us and it hasn't really hurt us in the past.
Also, i apologize for any mistakes and if this post came off kinda hard to follow I just wanted to make a quick post in between classes. Not trying to troll in anyway, I legitimately would like to hear the opinion of another schools fanbase.

 

[Obelix]

As an IU fan, I do not see Smith in any way scaring Wilkes away. If we get Wilkes he would easily slot in as the starting 3 with Juwan Morgan as the 4 and De'Ron Davis at the 5, assuming OG leaves after this year. If OG comes back, he'd take Morgan's spot at the 4. We just need to land a back-up 5 for Davis. Plus, in Crean's offense the 4 is a SF anyways. Look at Troy Williams, he would often bring the ball up the court as the 4 man. Also, if Collin Hartman can be successful playing the 4 in our system I don't see why Smith can't. I don't see Smith at the four hurting us on the boards as we often rely on guards to crash the boards for us and it hasn't really hurt us in the past.
Also, i apologize for any mistakes and if this post came off kinda hard to follow I just wanted to make a quick post in between classes. Not trying to troll in anyway, I legitimately would like to hear the opinion of another schools fanbase.

You try to rationalize as well from IU perspective but I do not buy your specific argument either. It is not what is better for IU, sure, having more athletes at a specific position is always better. It is also what is better for the athlete/recruit as well.

It is not just what Wilkes wants to do, whether he is scared of Smith etc., but also what are the implications for Smith. I doubt the subject of "What happens if Wilkes want to come to IU" has not been brought up by Smith and his family. And if the answer was "if Wilkes comes, then he gets the starting SF position, and you will move to PF," I really doubt that the response was "Oh, that is great, let me go ahead and commit!"

I do not know how many times you have seen Smith play, but playing PF is not to Smith's best career interest. Definitely not, and I made the same point for Malcolm Hill as well in the past. It may solve IU's problem and the logjam at SF, but not aligned with Smith's career prospects. So I really doubt that is the case here.

 

[chiefinillini7]

AkronHoosier... I, for one, appreciate your post bro! JS is gonna be a problem in IU's system, with Troy Williams type of athleticism (or just a notch below it) from a player who can score from the wing and attack the basket well in transition. probably most effective as an upperclassman so i think the Wilkes debate is mute anyway.

My opinion is that it wont matter that IU took JS b/c I don't think Crean has played his cards all the way right with the Wilkes family and i think it shows. It's my opinion that IU pushed hard for this un-expected Smith commitment as they feel they have lost ground with Wilkes and did not want to be stuck losing out on two of their top SF targets for this class.

Maybe Tommy boy was feeling a bit backed into a corner, got antsy and gave Smith a timetable or something to commit... and he did! I'm totally hypothesizing here, but it could be a possible scenario... but only time will tell where IU truly stands with Wilkes. I do think this commitment says a lot to Wilkes, and says a lot about his recruitment. but what do i know..

I'm mostly upset about the fact Indiana just stole an Illinois kid! let alone, one from the Chicago area!!