MT jagoff stories...haha. Probably deserves its own thread.
Fully agree
MT jagoff stories...haha. Probably deserves its own thread.
As for MT..... He was so scared and incapable of making coaching hires that he exclusively used hiring firms. It got to the point that the news gazette and Chicago papers did write ups on the obscene amount of money he was spending on these "search firms". So not only was he not smart enough he was to fearful to make coaching hires on his own.
JW on the other hand. I've been told by a person that knows him personally from his playing days here, that since his first AD gig he always has coaching lists that he has on every sport. He's always adding and deleting from them. So yes he currently has a list of potential golf coaches and football coaches even though those spots are current safe spots.
Nagy's ties to Illinois aren't any factor in my consideration (in fact, wasn't aware of them until you mentioned it... I'm 30 so wasn't really aware of assistant coaches in the Henson era.) Nor am I really familiar with him as a person or the system he runs. I'm happy to be educated. I was making my assessment based purely off of his record at SDSU: took the school from Div II, to Div I, from bottom of its league, to finishing first in the conference and making the NCAA tournament consistently. That says "program builder" to me.
Eric Musselman as a college head coach: 1.5 seasons, not much that you can say about his ability to build a program
Kevin Keatts as a college head coach: 2.5 seasons, not a ton of track record but looks very promising (went from bottom of conference to top of conference and NCAAs), maybe I underrated him; not familiar with how he did it (lucky/riding one good player?)
Will Wade as a college head coach: 3.5 seasons, improved Chattanooga from 8-10 conf to 12-4 and then 15-3, but did not win conference or make NCAAs; inherited a good VCU program; promising but TBD if he can maintain momentum
Not saying any of these guys are *bad* choices but don't think they are slam dunk candidates either. I'd say Bruce Weber had a better resume than Musselman, Keatts or Wade and Groce's (which has been lamented a number of times) record at Ohio was pretty comparable.
** My cousin is a big donor, and we hung out with other donors before and after the game. Most of the donors I talked to are not happy with the state or direction of the program or with JG in particular. Of the dozen or so donors I spoke with, including my cousin, I'd say 10 or 11 want JG replaced if we don't make the Dance this year, and several are big-$$ donors according to my cousin who will forcefully make their unhappiness known (and a few who already have) to JW. To say the heat is on JG is an understatement.
I talked at length with my cousin this afternoon before the game. My cousin said he has talked briefly with JW 3-4 times at different functions. At the most recent luncheon he attended, he asked JW in a 1 on 1 conversation if he was truly happy with the coaching staff's work over the last 4 1/2 years, not expecting an open answer. JW responded by saying he wasn't but that he wanted to give them the full season to show what they could do with a fully stocked, veteran roster. Eye-opening answer for sure.
Wow, this is honestly some of the best info I have ever seen on this board assuming it is true.
Did any of the donors mention their thoughts on potentially losing key recruits if Groce were to go? I guess I'm wondering if they are even remotely worried about that whether they should be or not.
Was at the AH tonight.
** My cousin is a big donor, and we hung out with other donors before and after the game. Most of the donors I talked to are not happy with the state or direction of the program or with JG in particular. Of the dozen or so donors I spoke with, including my cousin, I'd say 10 or 11 want JG replaced if we don't make the Dance this year, and several are big-$$ donors according to my cousin who will forcefully make their unhappiness known (and a few who already have) to JW. To say the heat is on JG is an understatement.
I talked at length with my cousin this afternoon before the game. My cousin said he has talked briefly with JW 3-4 times at different functions. At the most recent luncheon he attended, he asked JW in a 1 on 1 conversation if he was truly happy with the coaching staff's work over the last 4 1/2 years, not expecting an open answer. JW responded by saying he wasn't but that he wanted to give them the full season to show what they could do with a fully stocked, veteran roster. Eye-opening answer for sure.
Of the dozen or so donors I spoke with, including my cousin, I'd say 10 or 11 want JG replaced if we don't make the Dance this year, and several are big-$$ donors according to my cousin who will forcefully make their unhappiness known (and a few who already have) to JW.
There's no comparison with Groce. Ohio was 40-29 the four years before Groce in the MAC, with a winning record all four years. Groce went 34-30. That's everything you're not looking for. That's a flashing red sign saying "NOT A DIFFERENCE MAKER".
Was at the AH tonight.
** My cousin is a big donor, and we hung out with other donors before and after the game. Most of the donors I talked to are not happy with the state or direction of the program or with JG in particular. Of the dozen or so donors I spoke with, including my cousin, I'd say 10 or 11 want JG replaced if we don't make the Dance this year, and several are big-$$ donors according to my cousin who will forcefully make their unhappiness known (and a few who already have) to JW. To say the heat is on JG is an understatement.
I talked at length with my cousin this afternoon before the game. My cousin said he has talked briefly with JW 3-4 times at different functions. At the most recent luncheon he attended, he asked JW in a 1 on 1 conversation if he was truly happy with the coaching staff's work over the last 4 1/2 years, not expecting an open answer. JW responded by saying he wasn't but that he wanted to give them the full season to show what they could do with a fully stocked, veteran roster. Eye-opening answer for sure.
Take a look at these KenPom trends:
Ohio before Groce
2005 - 85
2006 - 109
2007 - 125
2008 - 95
Ohio under Groce
2009 - 169
2010 - 94
2011 - 150
2012 - 57
UNCW before Keatts
2009 - 305
2010 - 214
2011 - 203
2012 - 238
2013 - 287
2014 - 280
UNCW under Keatts
2015 - 174
2016 - 83
2017 - 50
Take a look at these KenPom trends:
Ohio before Groce
2005 - 85
2006 - 109
2007 - 125
2008 - 95
Ohio under Groce
2009 - 169
2010 - 94
2011 - 150
2012 - 57
UNCW before Keatts
2009 - 305
2010 - 214
2011 - 203
2012 - 238
2013 - 287
2014 - 280
UNCW under Keatts
2015 - 174
2016 - 83
2017 - 50
I'd say the reason for Toledo's success was more Matt Campbell (considering how well he did after Beckman left) so even though Beckman instilled a certain culture, Campbell made the F/+ rankings look better.
A telling factor against Groce is that even WHEN he got his scoring PG threat in DJ Cooper he still only managed a ranking of 57.
I wonder how tOSUs Kenpom looks ever since Groce left and what we would think that says about Matta.
Was at the AH tonight.
** My cousin is a big donor, and we hung out with other donors before and after the game. Most of the donors I talked to are not happy with the state or direction of the program or with JG in particular. Of the dozen or so donors I spoke with, including my cousin, I'd say 10 or 11 want JG replaced if we don't make the Dance this year, and several are big-$$ donors according to my cousin who will forcefully make their unhappiness known (and a few who already have) to JW. To say the heat is on JG is an understatement.
I talked at length with my cousin this afternoon before the game. My cousin said he has talked briefly with JW 3-4 times at different functions. At the most recent luncheon he attended, he asked JW in a 1 on 1 conversation if he was truly happy with the coaching staff's work over the last 4 1/2 years, not expecting an open answer. JW responded by saying he wasn't but that he wanted to give them the full season to show what they could do with a fully stocked, veteran roster. Eye-opening answer for sure.
Not sure what you mean by that, but here goes:
tOSU with Groce
2005 - 30
2006 - 14
2007 - 3
2008 - 31
tOSU post Groce
2009 - 34
2010 - 7
2011 - 1
2012 - 2
2013 - 7
Keep in mind that Groce recruited the class of Sullinger, Thomas, Craft, etc. Another way of looking at it is how come tOSU has dropped off so badly the last few years? Why had their recruiting dropped off? If we do end up firing Groce, I wouldn't put it past tOSU to make him a huge offer to come back as an assistant.
I do not know your cousin (his perspective is definitely well appreciated) but I know quite a few people in the Athletic Department and some of the donors as well. I have no idea what decision JW will take, but I can definitely confirm that JW really thinks highly of Groce, it is not a pretend or marketing like, it is a genuine very strong respect. Whitman has also been able to secure the support of some influential donors on his decisions (not just specific decisions).
This season is critical, but I am still not sure if Groce misses the dance, but makes the NIT, that Whitman will make change. I can't say that he won't, but I have some serious doubts. And before people start with the "NIT means nothing, nobody watches, etc." it has nothing to do with the value of NIT per se, but the fact that making the NIT means that Groce will be able to have a team that will be on the bubble, having a season around the .500 or slightly better. Combining that with Whitman's strong respect for Groce, I am just not sure he will make a change.
We may or may never find out... making the NIT is not a given at this point.
I do not know your cousin (his perspective is definitely well appreciated) but I know quite a few people in the Athletic Department and some of the donors as well. I have no idea what decision JW will take, but I can definitely confirm that JW really thinks highly of Groce, it is not a pretend or marketing like, it is a genuine very strong respect. Whitman has also been able to secure the support of some influential donors on his decisions (not just specific decisions).
This season is critical, but I am still not sure if Groce misses the dance, but makes the NIT, that Whitman will make change. I can't say that he won't, but I have some serious doubts. And before people start with the "NIT means nothing, nobody watches, etc." it has nothing to do with the value of NIT per se, but the fact that making the NIT means that Groce will be able to have a team that will be on the bubble, having a season around the .500 or slightly better. Combining that with Whitman's strong respect for Groce, I am just not sure he will make a change.
We may or may never find out... making the NIT is not a given at this point.
You don't have to be a bubble team to make the NIT.
NIT has become tougher to get into lately, even the Groce teams that made NIT were bubble teams. With the inclusion of conference champions that do not make the NCAA, it would be very difficult for the Illini to make NIT without being on or close to the bubble by analysts. There is no official bubble, but it has to be a pretty good team, better IMO than what we have shown so far.
Take a look at these KenPom trends:
Ohio before Groce
2005 - 85
2006 - 109
2007 - 125
2008 - 95
Ohio under Groce
2009 - 169
2010 - 94
2011 - 150
2012 - 57
UNCW before Keatts
2009 - 305
2010 - 214
2011 - 203
2012 - 238
2013 - 287
2014 - 280
UNCW under Keatts
2015 - 174
2016 - 83
2017 - 50