2017 Coaching Carousel

[BRy12]

Long time lurker, first tenuous post:

I really like John Groce's personality. But I'm not going to continue to squint, trying not to see what is readily apparent: He's not fit for this job.

It's not purely the W/L results, though those have been alarming and unacceptable. (People will always counter that Coach K had a horrible record his first few years, etc.)

It's the obvious lack of successful, coherent on-floor schemes, on both ends of the floor. For years.

And yet we keep hearing about what "the next few games will tell us", or, "We'll know after we see what he does with a real PG," or "Next year will reveal a lot."

We shouldn't have to keep learning the same thing, over and over. We're just refusing to see.

We just want to make it work. But it's like other forms of denial - like when a woman refuses to see her handsome boyfriend's obvious fatal flaws, and marries him anyway. Or when I go to buy a car, and conveniently dismiss the rattling noise because I love the car's look and stereo.

I'm afraid we'll lose the incoming class, JT and TF in particular, but this can't continue. We're well past small sample size concerns. The jury is not still out. The verdict is in.

It's too bad, because we all sure wanted it to work.

Amen.

 

[LurkLongandProsper]

It's a great first post, but as someone who said all of these things, I would just add, these games ARE telling us, we ARE finding out what he does with real PG(s), and this year IS revealing a lot.

Hasn't the belief always been that we need a dynamic scorer at PG? TJL has been an excellent passer, but as games go by and he averages under 5ppg, teams will continue to defend him more like Tate and create the same issues, no? I'm not sure how TJL has been the PG we've all believed Groce has needed, and IMO we need a big who can really run the PnR to see what this system is supposed to be all about, and Mav/Thorne isn't it. I wish we could teach Black how to screen legally, because I think he's our best threat as the screener in pick and roll due to his mobility and ability to dive or pop, with Finke as a clear second(although he really only ever pops). Really surprises me we don't see those looks more often.

Honestly, there's been a lot of talk about how losing on Quentin Snider, DJax, et al have hurt this tenure, but I really think (watching Creighton this year) that landing Mo Watson as a transfer from BU (averaged 13+/6.5+ last two years) could've really changed this tenure, and he seemed extremely gettable.

 

[illinipioneer]

That's overstating it. Both of those programs leveraged their success into bigger, more lucrative conferences and the infrastructural upgrades to match. Those programs aren't going back to what they were in the Horizon League and CAA, respectively.

Butler made the bigger jump and probably has the better underlying bone structure as a program (and was also a longtime mid-major power before Stevens), so I'd bet on their staying power punching over their weight longer than VCU, but both programs did well for themselves.

Contrast those two with, say, George Mason, who were content to experience their 15 minutes of fame and stay what they were. (Nothing wrong with that)

Being a George Mason alum, I couldn't agree more with that.I could talk your ear off with the way our administration handled the notoriety etc. of our "15 mins" and in turn completely bungled it, lost Larranaga, brought in a retread, and wallowed in misery for a few years. Now we have Dave Paulsen out of Bucknell and we look pretty good in our 2nd year.

 

[alaskaillini]

It's a great first post, but as someone who said all of these things, I would just add, these games ARE telling us, we ARE finding out what he does with real PG(s), and this year IS revealing a lot.

Based upon the opinions I have been reading on these boards lately, I didn't realize we had any real PGs.

 

[alaskaillini]

It's not purely the W/L results, though those have been alarming and unacceptable. (People will always counter that Coach K had a horrible record his first few years, etc.)

FYI in the comparison game, John Groce's B1G record his first four years was exactly the same as Lou Henson's. And I do not recall Henson having the injury problems to deal with like Groce had in years 3 and 4. Now Henson's name is on the court. Not terribly relevant, but an interesting fact.

 

[gibb52]

FYI in the comparison game, John Groce's B1G record his first four years was exactly the same as Lou Henson's. And I do not recall Henson having the injury problems to deal with like Groce had in years 3 and 4. Now Henson's name is on the court. Not terribly relevant, but an interesting fact.

Neither took over a great situation. IL was 13-36 in the 2 yrs before Lou arrived IIRC, but at least his teams looked like there was a plan in place.

 

[illinoisportsfan]

Neither took over a great situation. IL was 13-36 in the 2 yrs before Lou arrived IIRC, but at least his teams looked like there was a plan in place.

I didn't think Lou was a very good in-game coach, but his teams always looked well-coached and well-prepared.

I have never thought that about Groce's teams.

 

[Ryllini]

Coach Groce is still my coach and the leader of the team I love and I know I said I wouldn't speculate on a future coach until JW makes that decision for us, but I was thinking about some candidates not currently in the collegiate landscape and what about some D-League coaches? I searched and there are a handful that are intriguing, not only for us, but for anyone.

Ken McDonald - Austin Spurs - he has head coaching experience at Western Ky. (2008-11)He then went on to serve under Rick Barnes at UT, who is his mento(don't know if that is a good thing, but RB did have success. He was also and assistant at a few schools before his head coaching gig at Western KY.

Rex Walters - Grand Rapids Wave - he coached 8 years at the University of San Francisco, where he had some success and guided them to their highest win total since 1981. He enjoyed an NBA career and also played professionally in Europe.

Glynn Cyprien - Iowa Energy - he was an assistant under Pastner at Memphis(2009-11). They obviously had some wild success coming off the wings from Cal. He has coached or recruited some nice NBA players: Tone Allen, Khris Middleton, Patrick Beverly, and Shawn Marion. He has also had stops at Texas A&M, Kentucky, Arkansas, and others.

Matt Brase - Rio Grande Vipers - his grandfather is Lute Olson and was a member of the Arizona Wildcats 2003-05. He was an assistant at that school as well and has had some years on the NBA focusing on player development.

All info from the D-League website and to be honest, I only really know about Rex Walters from his NBA days.

 

[Deleted member 29907]

Much better is a stretch, but Buzz has brought good talent there and they are a better team than us at the moment.

I personally find musty old gyms like Cassell Coliseum really charming and cool, so it's not with malice that I state the plain facts: Virginia Tech plays to half-empty crowds in a dump.

In an 10,000 seat gym, Va Tech averaged 6,600 fans last year, and 5,700 the year before.

.

That musty old gym was full for the Duke and Notre Dame games. How was our attendance? So they are showing when contending, the fans show up.

And I even stated they have not had the attendance over the years - go back and read my post before you make up your own arguments.

Yes, I used some hyperbole in "much better" - but I'd kill for someone who could coach up a team like Buzz does - and he lets them fly.

My overall point is - perhaps we need to step back and wonder why we haven't been able to attract a good coach in years - make all the excuses we want - but a good destination school should remain one.

I also believe I said my point was good coaches can turn a school around pretty quickly and bring in the fans. Why would everyone assume that just because a team hasn't been good in the past, fans will ignore their recent success?

 

[Second and Chalmers]

I like the idea of looking for coaches in the D-League because that's a really innovative forward-thinking basketball environment, but none of those coaches particularly interest me for the Illinois job.

It's a good place for a coach to go. Both Kelvin Sampson and Quinn Snyder rebuilt their reputations there.

 

[Deleted member 29907]

But seeing Illinois even compared to Virginia Tech I felt I had to wade in. The reason Virginia Tech has Buzz Williams is because he was on shaky ground at Marquette and they paid him an ungodly sum of money. The reason he probably won't leave is because he's on stable ground at Virginia Tech and they paid him an ungodly sum of money.

He also beat Duke and almost came back and beat Notre Dame. Perhaps the reason they will keep him is because he is winning? And where did i compare VA Tech to Illinois? My only comparison was in response to available talent - not as a program.

 

[Jkat00]

Coach Groce is still my coach and the leader of the team I love and I know I said I wouldn't speculate on a future coach until JW makes that decision for us, but I was thinking about some candidates not currently in the collegiate landscape and what about some D-League coaches? I searched and there are a handful that are intriguing, not only for us, but for anyone.

Ken McDonald - Austin Spurs - he has head coaching experience at Western Ky. (2008-11)He then went on to serve under Rick Barnes at UT, who is his mento(don't know if that is a good thing, but RB did have success. He was also and assistant at a few schools before his head coaching gig at Western KY.

Rex Walters - Grand Rapids Wave - he coached 8 years at the University of San Francisco, where he had some success and guided them to their highest win total since 1981. He enjoyed an NBA career and also played professionally in Europe.

Glynn Cyprien - Iowa Energy - he was an assistant under Pastner at Memphis(2009-11). They obviously had some wild success coming off the wings from Cal. He has coached or recruited some nice NBA players: Tone Allen, Khris Middleton, Patrick Beverly, and Shawn Marion. He has also had stops at Texas A&M, Kentucky, Arkansas, and others.

Matt Brase - Rio Grande Vipers - his grandfather is Lute Olson and was a member of the Arizona Wildcats 2003-05. He was an assistant at that school as well and has had some years on the NBA focusing on player development.

All info from the D-League website and to be honest, I only really know about Rex Walters from his NBA days.

I appreciate the research but Whitman won't be hiring any of these guys as head coach if Groce is fired.

 

[Obelix]

I like the idea of looking for coaches in the D-League because that's a really innovative forward-thinking basketball environment, but none of those coaches particularly interest me for the Illinois job.

It's a good place for a coach to go. Both Kelvin Sampson and Quinn Snyder rebuilt their reputations there.

Quin Snyder did coach in the D-League, but Kelvin Sampson just became an assistant in the NBA. I do not believe Kelvin Sampson has ever coached in the D-League, just as an assistant in the NBA.

 

[LurkLongandProsper]

Coach Groce is still my coach and the leader of the team I love and I know I said I wouldn't speculate on a future coach until JW makes that decision for us, but I was thinking about some candidates not currently in the collegiate landscape and what about some D-League coaches? I searched and there are a handful that are intriguing, not only for us, but for anyone.

Ken McDonald - Austin Spurs - he has head coaching experience at Western Ky. (2008-11)He then went on to serve under Rick Barnes at UT, who is his mento(don't know if that is a good thing, but RB did have success. He was also and assistant at a few schools before his head coaching gig at Western KY.

Rex Walters - Grand Rapids Wave - he coached 8 years at the University of San Francisco, where he had some success and guided them to their highest win total since 1981. He enjoyed an NBA career and also played professionally in Europe.

Glynn Cyprien - Iowa Energy - he was an assistant under Pastner at Memphis(2009-11). They obviously had some wild success coming off the wings from Cal. He has coached or recruited some nice NBA players: Tone Allen, Khris Middleton, Patrick Beverly, and Shawn Marion. He has also had stops at Texas A&M, Kentucky, Arkansas, and others.

Matt Brase - Rio Grande Vipers - his grandfather is Lute Olson and was a member of the Arizona Wildcats 2003-05. He was an assistant at that school as well and has had some years on the NBA focusing on player development.

All info from the D-League website and to be honest, I only really know about Rex Walters from his NBA days.

Really interesting line of thinking, hadn't even considered the D-League as a coaching source. Think I agree that none of these guys are necessarily options worth pursuing, but definitely a good place to look at.

 

[Ryllini]

I appreciate the research but Whitman won't be hiring any of these guys as head coach if Groce is fired.

I'm sure he wouldn't either, but I think the net is wider than the handful of collegiate coaches thrown out there.

 

[Second and Chalmers]

Quin Snyder did coach in the D-League, but Kelvin Sampson just became an assistant in the NBA. I do not believe Kelvin Sampson has ever coached in the D-League, just as an assistant in the NBA.

Shoot, you're right. Who am I thinking of? There's another notable college guy that went that route.

 

[LurkLongandProsper]

Shoot, you're right. Who am I thinking of? There's another notable college guy that went that route.

I think Donnie Tyndall joined a D-League staff as an assistant?

 

[Obelix]

Shoot, you're right. Who am I thinking of? There's another notable college guy that went that route.

Maybe not a big time coach, but our own Gene Cross found solace in the D-League after his career as a college coach at Toledo ended prematurely.

 

[ILL in IA]

Pretty sure the Iowa Energy coach just lost like 15 games in a row. Let's avoid coaches with a history of January losing streaks.

 

[Ryllini]

Pretty sure the Iowa Energy coach just lost like 15 games in a row. Let's avoid coaches with a history of January losing streaks.

Lol! I can get on board with that!

 

[Second and Chalmers]

Jay Larranaga and Eric Musselman are two former D-League coaches who might interest Illinois.

 

[Ryllini]

Jay Larranaga and Eric Musselman are two former D-League coaches who might interest Illinois.

Interesting choices. Both coaches seemed to have some success in the developmental leagues, but what is more important in the D-league, wins or getting your players called up? I'd say they both did a good job of getting their guys to the next level.

 

[illinoisportsfan]

My overall point is - perhaps we need to step back and wonder why we haven't been able to attract a good coach in years - make all the excuses we want - but a good destination school should remain one.

It's only been two coaching hires that haven't turned out well and Bruce Weber took Illinois to the national championship game and won national coach of the year, so he had some great success at first.

Before that we hired Bill Self (the hottest up-and-coming coach in the country at the time) and Lon Kruger (who was the coach at Florida and had just taken them to the Final Four).

 

[Se Il Illini]

Lou Henson had a final 4 appearance before coming to Illinois. Prior to coaching Illinois for 1 year, Gene Bartow's 1972-73 Memphis State team was runner-up to UCLA in the NCAA tournament.

 

[JudsonFTS]

Pains me to say this but Texas by itself produces more talent than Illinois, including Chicago. That could probably be broken down to just the dfw metroplex and Houston and still be a true statement.

Basketball reference.com

Illinois 233 NBA players since inception. Texas 166.

Illinois trails only Cali and New York.

Carry on