You sure sound like someone that wants Illinois to keep Groce. For one, it'll take a complete miracle for Illinois to make the Tournament. If (BIG if) they sneak in as a last-four-in team, that won't be enough. The 2017 class isn't nearly as good as people are making it out to be. And I know for a fact that Whitman was pretty disappointed that Groce couldn't land Goodwin, and now it seems that Northwestern is in better shape to land Mark Smith. Them's the facts.
2017 Coaching Carousel
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Welp, he's playing 4 freshmen Groce a very veteran team
Let's just stop there.
TownieMatt
CU Expat
- Chicago
This is a seeming popular opinion that I don't agree with at all. If Groce managed to turn this thing around and get us in the dance it would be a seriously impressive accomplishment. It likely mean going at least 6-3 and beating a couple really good teams.
I see the logic behind behind looking at the overall body of work, but getting us to the tournament would be an improvement in the program's direction. Given our new reliance on young players this season and a quality class coming in, I would want to see him try to build on that success next season.
All that being said, I don't see this team turning it around this year. So my whole argument is likely void. :huh:
I'll repeat:
So you reward the guy for failing pretty much miserably through 2/3 of the season? I couldn't care less if his team bounces back and barely sneaks into the tourney. It shouldn't have struggled as mightily as it has in the first place. "Turns this around" shouldn't even be a thing with a veteran team like this.
Bring out the KISS lyrics and trips to the doctor for Scottie, hope he gets better (after we play NU).
I agree, but there's a self-reinforcing quality to this argument. The further our season circles down the drain, the more sudden and dramatic the turnaround would have to be to save us.
Agree with this completely. The thing that bothers me most about the coaching is the seeming inability to put players in position to succeed. Having Hill go 1 on 1 with the clock running down isn't a great play. Yeah, sometimes you need players to make plays, and Hill has come through a couple times....but there are many better options. I'm sure Malcolm wants the ball, he's a competitor and if the ship is going to go down on his senior season, it may as well be on his shoulders, but that's terrible decision making by the coach.
The only thing which would make me change my mind about keeping Groce is winning out the rest of the regular season, and in that time period him saying "I had to totally throw away everything I thought I knew about basketball and change my philosophy to......" and I wouldn't even care what he said, as long as it wasn't whatever garbage philosophy he currently subscribes to. (Relying on experience, but then saying "we haven't played enough games together", that garbage pack line defense philosophy (pressure the ball and get in the passing lanes and make someone uncomfortable) and the brutal movement without purpose and passing and passing it back and whatever screen/roll/ dribble drive garbage offense we currently have....my junior high team had a better idea of how to move without the ball.
Nonetheless...I'll tune in tonight and hope for a win. I don't know why.
This year's class is 29th in country so he can recruit... sometimes. He did land two MCDAA two years ago but that still did not net any NCAA tournament wins. I really don't want another argument a few years from now about keeping any incoming class, but letting Martin stay even though he had lackluster performance as a coach.
MrOizo
- Chicago
At this point, i view 9 wins and 2 in the BTT as nearly impossible. I don't think your scenario matters.
Cheez
- Sun Prairie WI
I agree with this. I have Illinois finishing at 6-10 and getting a single BTT win. There are winnable games on the schedule that I peg as losses, but that's because they are on the road and Illinois has looked terrible in each road game..
Well I'd rather have Hill going one on one, then the worst offensive player we got dribbling around for 30 sec. and going into the lane with a prayer and a hope.
We love no other
And I have no idea why Groce allows that as an option.
Coaching Targets Stats Sheet -- Plugging this again before folks flow in, please let me know if you have interest in new additions (will require a 2nd nomination before I do so). Thanks all :thumb:
Really appreciate this. I haven't seen UNCW play recently, but the tempo numbers are really good. Most kids want to play in a system with a high tempo. Thoughts?
The one suggestion I'd make is push the previous coach section back 2 or 3 years instead of just one.
I don't understand the people who want to keep Groce because he has good talent coming in. Do you really think he would do anything with that talent? I really don't. No need to waste another year. At this point, I don't care if a Michael Jordan clone is coming in next year. Groce better be gone. He would waste that talent
Not sure that's entirely accurate, Kentucky is at 319 this year, for example
That could be done. I had considered that, largely didn't simply because of how many coaches I had to add, but I could pull that together now.
Kids want an "uptempo offense" as code for "something simple where I'll play early and have a green light to shoot right away". Number of possessions in a game has nothing to do with it.
When do we find our next coach? After 4 straight years of this mess I am ready to see new leadership.
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