2017 Coaching Carousel

Status
Not open for further replies.
#4,851      
Like Kathy, last night gave me a faint glimmer of hope, albeit a small one.

For all of you, including me, who think Groce will be gone after this year, what would it take for Groce to salvage his job at this point?

I'd say, if he wins out, wins a couple games in the BTT and somehow manages to get into the NCAA tourney, he will probably keep his job.

However, those are some pretty big IF's.

Yes. You are right. If we do all that, then maybe he stays.

IF Duke loses out, Coach K gets caught cheating, and multiple players quit due to assistant coach abuse that allegedly Coach K knew all about, I think there is a good chance Coach K would get fired this year.

Big IFs, but it COULD happen!
 
#4,852      
I don't remotely doubt that he's put out feelers, and I wouldn't be surprised if he's directly spoken to candidates in confidence. That doesn't mean it's a done deal, and any potential candidates of course know that. It is very likely Groce gets canned, and Whitman is smart enough to start planning enough time in advance to get the best possible result he can achieve. But that doesn't mean anyone, including Whitman, knows the future with certainty. You can't possibly think that there is no conceivable circumstance under which Groce keeps his job. If you do, please take my bet at 100,000 to 1 odds. Groce's back is firmly pinned to the wall right now, but the 10 count has not yet been called.







Groce knows if he doesn't win out or win the BTT he is done that is reality of the situation and not winning enough games the last few years. This is a bottom line job either you win or you get fired at this level.
 
#4,853      

haasi

New York
I do actually. Beyond any shadow of a doubt.

OK let's get it on! 100k to 1 odds. To make it more reasonable, you can promise to donate 1 grand to the charity of your choice if Groce is retained, and I will paypal you 1 US cent if he is canned.
 
#4,854      
I for one would prefer that all of the "if we win out, will we make the tourney?" posts go to the bracketology thread. I doubt that anyone in the B1G wins out and I highly doubt that if it is done, it is done by a team in the bottom quartile. So, let's just shelve that would be my preference. Or talk about it in the smoke filled bracketology room.

Rant over.

Exactly. This thread needs to be preserved for the sane, rational conversations about trains or other steam, diesel and electric powered vehicles conducted by various head college basketball coaches.
 
#4,855      
Win the national title in the NCAA Tournament = extension. Anything less, fired.

I know this is extreme, but I agree. I feel like at this point I've seen enough to know that any success (nearly regardless of how much to end this season) would be more luck than actual coaching/development of players.
 
#4,856      
tournament 2017

I think people fail to realize how weak of an at-large bid it is this year. Before their lost to Notre Dame yesterday, Wake Forest was projected as a last 4 in with a 14-9 (5-6) record. Therefore its not inconceivable that even if we did hit a hot streak we would get an at-large bid not only due to being a .500 winning team in the B1G but also you would naturally pick up quality wins in doing so.

I don't think people that are saying this are necessarily pro-Groce as much as it' just highlighting the landscape of college basketball today. We honestly don't have many bad losses. Winthrop appears to be a tournament team and our out-of-conference scheduling appears third to only Mich State and Kansas. Needless, its an up-mountain battle for Groce but he's not dead yet.
 
#4,857      
OK let's get it on! 100k to 1 odds. To make it more reasonable, you can promise to donate 1 grand to the charity of your choice if Groce is retained, and I will paypal you 1 US cent if he is canned.

If I can parlay this bet with aliens landing in Times Square and Leicester City repeating i'm in.
 
#4,858      
Maybe that's true.

Or, maybe next February you'll realize we just don't have enough experience for Groce's "systems." Maybe Groce will just need one more year to teach his system to the new players. And you'll be talking about the impact of the shiny new top 100ish recruits that will make us even better. By February you'll be right back to If we win out...

7I8bvWP.gif
 
#4,859      

OrangeAndBlues

Indianapolis
Wait, you do what? I want clarity on this comment.

Sorry, I didn't mean insider information, just that I think this argument is really silly and I'd like to get back to talking about coaches instead of this nonsense.

I'm just some jerk alumni, I have no donor ties or inside sources.
 
#4,861      
Maybe that's true.

Or, maybe next February you'll realize we just don't have enough experience for Groce's "systems." Maybe Groce will just need one more year to teach his system to the new players. And you'll be talking about the impact of the shiny new top 100ish recruits that will make us even better. By February you'll be right back to If we win out...

I can see it now. February 8th, 2018 "I can't believe Tejon is still getting minutes over Frazier", "But we shot 60% from 3 and beat Maryland that one game, why can't that team show up again?" "If only we win these next 8 games and 2 in the BTT, we'll beat out Louisiana Tech and Western Illinois for the last spots on the bubble!"
 
#4,862      

Smacko

Lexington, KY
Technically, maybe not. But I've talked to enough people who have hinted that he's reached out to gauge interest. He's certainly talked to boosters (and likely Khan), and people that are smarter than me hint that he's sent out feelers to candidates (or perhaps their agents). The wheels certainly seem to be in motion. If you have contradictory info, feel free to PM me.

Yeah, Whitman is not going to directly call Cuonzo at Cal and chat him up. There is all sorts of different back channel stuff that goes on to get a lay of the land and see who has interest. I would be incredibly surprised if some of that back channeling has not already started.
 
#4,864      
But we will have much more talent on next year's team. Our current team doesn't reap the benefits that most experienced teams do. We will have better athletes (meaning more capable defenders) and better scorers. And with any luck some players with that Killer in em.

Not so much. Offensively, Morgan>freshman Tilmon all day. Malcolm's production speaks for itself. This will be hard to replace. However I think it's definitely fair to say Tilmon will be a major improvement over Mav defensively and we'll see flashes of Tilmon's upside playing in transition. Mav & especially big Mike can't play in transition. Our team will have better athletes that will eventually translate to better defense but it's going to take time.
 
#4,865      
The clock is ticking on Groce and two more losses and the bomb goes off. The only way he can prevent that is a BTT win and that won't happen!!

I know what you meant, but to clarify, the only way he can (possibly) prevent that is WINNING the BTT, not getting *a* win in the BTT.

If I wasn't so desperate to not have to hate watch our games anymore, I'd almost want to see us somehow get on the bubble and trip into the tournament to see how serious Whitman is about winning, but I don't want to risk that going the wrong way.
 
#4,867      

OrangeAndBlues

Indianapolis
Oh, I wasn't the one that broke that rumor. I think it was referenced in a different forum (?). It sure seems that Martin and Williams are the frontrunners by a wide margin, but folks still think there could be some stealth candidates that few, if any, know about. If I had to bet cash money today, it'd be on one of those two, though.

Ah, gotcha. My bad!
 
#4,868      

EJ33

San Francisco
Derek Piper speaking about Cuonzo Martin and recruiting on the Tay & Jay show:

I just think that he would be probably a home run recruiter. And that's what I've heard from a lot of different people around the recruiting circles that Cuonzo would do some things that, you know, Illinois hasn't been able to do recruiting-wise.

When you think about the talent that you want at Illinois, I think that he's a guy that can go out there and get it for you.
 
#4,869      
Not sure where you get he (C Martin) upgraded any of the programs he has coached at

If you use metrics such tourney appearances, wins/losses, and recruiting you would agree that the programs were upgraded. If you think Bruce Pearl did a better job at Tennessee than C Martin than I really can't reason with you.

But none of this matters that much, I know he will do very well at Illinois. I played bb in Chicago's SE and know the scene. C Martin played BB during my high school years, he carries a great reputation throughout the state in the neighborhood of Dee, Frank Williams, Sergio, Deon, Gill, N Anderson, etc.... He is one of the few who won state championships, had college success, played in the NBA, and has had coaching success. C Martin's connections go back to our Flying Illini, trust me he is well respected among our greatest alumni from the Flying Illini through the great Peoria teams even though he played at Purdue.

This isn't info you find at Wiki or google. No connection to any players but I have talked and shot bb with many former Illini (not going to name drop). Most of them were at UI when I went there and are from my generation. You name C Martin as the coach and I predict that the big names of Illinois and IHSA bb are going to rally around him (Bardo, Deon, Frank, Gill, N Anderson). Imagine going into Peoria, Chicago, and STL metro gyms and the coaches really want to send you their players. Still some coaches and street agents will want their agenda, but on the above board recruits we will win more than our fair share. If you look at the wins/losses at SW Missouri, Tenn, and Cal I think you are missing the bigger picture.
 
#4,870      

EJ33

San Francisco
If you use metrics such tourney appearances, wins/losses, and recruiting you would agree that the programs were upgraded. If you think Bruce Pearl did a better job at Tennessee than C Martin than I really can't reason with you.

But none of this matters that much, I know he will do very well at Illinois. I played bb in Chicago's SE and know the scene. C Martin played BB during my high school years, he carries a great reputation throughout the state in the neighborhood of Dee, Frank Williams, Sergio, Deon, Gill, N Anderson, etc.... He is one of the few who won state championships, had college success, played in the NBA, and has had coaching success. C Martin's connections go back to our Flying Illini, trust me he is well respected among our greatest alumni from the Flying Illini through the great Peoria teams even though he played at Purdue.

This isn't info you find at Wiki or google. No connection to any players but I have talked and shot bb with many former Illini (not going to name drop). Most of them were at UI when I went there and are from my generation. You name C Martin as the coach and I predict that the big names of Illinois and IHSA bb are going to rally around him (Bardo, Deon, Frank, Gill, N Anderson). Imagine going into Peoria, Chicago, and STL metro gyms and the coaches really want to send you their players. Still some coaches and street agents will want their agenda, but on the above board recruits we will win more than our fair share. If you look at the wins/losses at SW Missouri, Tenn, and Cal I think you are missing the bigger picture.

Thanks for sharing. Cuonzo was one of our top recruiting targets during the Flying Illini years, so I'm sure they know him.

For those who never watched Cuonzo play, he was an outstanding player. Outstanding. Smart, fundamentally sound, and clutch.
 
#4,871      
Okay so say JW hired Martin what is our record next year with all 4 recruits staying? I say he goes 10-8 in Big Ten and about 21-22 wins overall and make the tourney?
 
#4,872      
Final Four. Mark it down.












KIDDING! I have no clue without seeing Frazier and Tilmon in an actual college game.






I get that but does he make next years team better with better X's and O's over Groce? I say he wins at least 2-3 more games then Groce will this year which should be about 17-18?
 
#4,873      
Thanks for sharing. Cuonzo was one of our top recruiting targets during the Flying
Illini years, so I'm sure they know him.

For those who never watched Cuonzo play, he was an outstanding player. Outstanding. Smart, fundamentally sound, and clutch.

Watched his practices at Tenn and Cal, I'm sold. Not going to predict what his record will be in year one but the program will be in good hands.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDL2yYBKeY0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqhhqkmW1Js
 
#4,874      
Okay so say JW hired Martin what is our record next year with all 4 recruits staying? I say he goes 10-8 in Big Ten and about 21-22 wins overall and make the tourney?

I say 6-12 in the big 10 and no tourney. I don't think these freshmen will have that big of an impact. Tilmon is raw and won't score much. Hoping Frazier is the real deal. Not really expecting anything from Pickett or Williams as freshmen. There's not much left, although I'm starting to wonder if Kipper Nichols might not be the best player on this team next year.
 
#4,875      
Thanks for sharing. Cuonzo was one of our top recruiting targets during the Flying Illini years, so I'm sure they know him.

For those who never watched Cuonzo play, he was an outstanding player. Outstanding. Smart, fundamentally sound, and clutch.

Yep, good stuff. CM sounds pretty contented where he is at Cal per this link, though, so it will take some convincing that returning to the land of Lincoln basketball and additional dollars in the bank would make life even better.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...2B94DF05D0BC794C8B722B94DF05D0BC794&FORM=VIRE
 
Status
Not open for further replies.