Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread (April 2017)

[Kathy]

He's going to Kentucky. Don't torture yourself.

I really grow weary of these "matter of fact" statements.

 

[illinitiger]

Ulis at Kentucky was a lot more than serviceable backup right off the bat. Ulis averaged 24 minutes per game his first year on one of the most loaded teams in college basketball and Kentucky history. Not only did he average 24 minutes per game, but nobody on that team averaged more than 26 minutes per game, and that team had several NBAers.

The Ulis-like experience at UK is a major, major plus for Smith.

agreed that Ulis got good minutes as freshman....he avgd less than 6 pts per game freshmen year and didnt break out until year 2 when he was playing 30+ minutes per game.
All that said, I agree that good players with unique skillsets can get minutes at KY as Freshmen....Id also say Ulis had some skillsets that other 4 and 5 stars at KY didnt have as much when he was there. I will enjoy watching Mark Smith next year. I hope its 33+ min per game as an Illini (similar to Mello his Freshman year) rather that 24 minutes or less per game at Ky.

 

[rockillini]

agreed that Ulis got good minutes as freshman....he avgd less than 6 pts per game freshmen year and didnt break out until year 2 when he was playing 30+ minutes per game.
All that said, I agree that good players with unique skillsets can get minutes at KY as Freshmen....Id also say Ulis had some skillsets that other 4 and 5 stars at KY didnt have as much when he was there. I will enjoy watching Mark Smith next year. I hope its 33+ min per game as an Illini (similar to Mello his Freshman year) rather that 24 minutes or less per game at Ky.

Also Ulis got early minutes when Calipari was utilizing his experimental platoon system, which gave him more of an opportunity to prove himself he might not have gotten otherwise. Calipari has since ditched the platoon system making it more challenging for the bench guys to get minutes and prove their worth on the floor.

 

[hooraybeer]

Also Ulis got early minutes when Calipari was utilizing his experimental platoon system, which gave him more of an opportunity to prove himself he might not have gotten otherwise. Calipari has since ditched the platoon system making it more challenging for the bench guys to get minutes and prove their worth on the floor.

that was the year UKs "B" team could have beat almost every other team in the country

 

[Jeffcobrad]

When a coach tells you that he will build it around you then that coach starts to put it together right in front of you its hard to tell him NO.....#WeWillWin

 

[TCTORNADO]

Ulis' early playing time as a Freshman was due to his defense. Ulis was SEC defensive POY as a Soph. Smith's defense is no where near Ulis'. In fact the couple of times I saw Smith's defense, it was not considered good.

 

[Seagee]

Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread

I'd just feel awfully silly if we let this guy who grew up in our back yard go and then watch him develop for a year or two and turn out to be a rock star. He most definitely needs work, but isn't that what Underwood and Fletcher are supposed to be good at?

I'll probably get clobbered for this, but part of me thinks in-state loyalty has to be a two-way street. As we are trying to convince players like Mark Smith to see UofI as a 'diamond in the rough' and stay home vs accepting offers from more established programs with WAY better recent / 10-year track records, then it feels like we should show we are willing to do the same with our own home-grown talent. To those who say, 'yeah, but we want to win', well so do the Mark Smiths of the world, and UK wins a lot more than we have lately.

This isn't solely in regards to Bruninga. Brian Cook played for a small downstate high school with lower competition yet still was recognized as an MDAA.

My bottom line is that while Bruninga may be a wildcard, there is absolutely no downside to bringing him into the gym with our staff and players and having them do a thorough evaluation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Second and Chalmers]

there is absolutely no downside to bringing him into the gym with our staff and players and having them do a thorough evaluation.

Certainly. And that benefits both parties.

 

[Chris Yates]

The best downstate crop of talent that we've had in a very, very long time... and it sounds line we are going to be O-fer. That really sucks

To be fair, we had most of that down-state talent signed, sealed, and delivered, but we chose to fire the head coach who recruited them, so that opened everything up again. We probably made the right decision in changing coaches now, but as Jeremy Werner and others have explained, that was a huge risk because it cut loose a great recruiting class. Time will tell whether it was a good move, but it's not accurate to say that we whiffed on the 2017 down-state talent that signed Illini NLIs.

 

[scsaints23]

Unless the staff has to resort to filling the remainder of the roster with warm bodies (which I don't see happening), I think some of the names being mentioned as "nothing to lose" will never happen. I've had a front row seat to Frank Martin's rebuild at S Carolina. The first thing he did was run off the meek and mild athletes that wouldn't play D. He brought in athletic defenders. He has had numerous foreign players. I will be shocked if Coach Underwood doesn't do the same. I do not see us filling the roster with below the rim athletes.

 

[ballislife17]

To be fair, we had most of that down-state talent signed, sealed, and delivered, but we chose to fire the head coach who recruited them, so that opened everything up again. We probably made the right decision in changing coaches now, but as Jeremy Werner and others have explained, that was a huge risk because it cut loose a great recruiting class. Time will tell whether it was a good move, but it's not accurate to say that we whiffed on the 2017 down-state talent that signed Illini NLIs.

I have a hard time seeing how losing the recruits isn't worth it. In five seasons with Groce the goal was always to make the tournament. Groce was never taking us to a final four. Underwood legitimately has that kind of potential with good players. I see Underwood's floor as Groce's ceiling. A good coach is more important than a good recruit.

 

[Fighter of the Nightman]

I have a hard time seeing how losing the recruits isn't worth it. In five seasons with Groce the goal was always to make the tournament. Groce was never taking us to a final four. Underwood legitimately has that kind of potential with good players. I see Underwood's floor as Groce's ceiling. A good coach is more important than a good recruit.

Amen!

 

[westcoastillini]

To be fair, we had most of that down-state talent signed, sealed, and delivered, but we chose to fire the head coach who recruited them, so that opened everything up again. We probably made the right decision in changing coaches now, but as Jeremy Werner and others have explained, that was a huge risk because it cut loose a great recruiting class. Time will tell whether it was a good move, but it's not accurate to say that we whiffed on the 2017 down-state talent that signed Illini NLIs.

Understood. It is probable that this coaching change will benefit the program in the long run. This is just the frustrated fan in me externalizing exasperation: we waited 4 years under Groce to get back to the show, and it didn't happen. With Tilmon and Pickett as part of our class, it was conceivable we would make it in next season. As of now, that seems a reach. So that wait continues. (I know the recruiting season still has a month to go).


That said, I am tremendously excited about DMW and Frazier. They are quality players and it's great that they determined illinois is still the place to be.

 

[IlliniMed]

Understood. It is probable that this coaching change will benefit the program in the long run. This is just the frustrated fan in me externalizing exasperation: we waited 4 years under Groce to get back to the show, and it didn't happen. With Tilmon and Pickett as part of our class, it was conceivable we would make it in next season. As of now, that seems a reach. So that wait continues. (I know the recruiting season still has a month to go).


That said, I am tremendously excited about DMW and Frazier. They are quality players and it's great that they determined illinois is still the place to be.

How is it a reach? The B10 is still "down" and our players had no system (and from what i'm reading about the first practice) no actual skill drills for a P5 school under Groce. The mere fact that we now have a coach that can apply a system to everyones strength is worth noting. I'm not saying WE WILL make it...but this woe is me attitude is getting really really old. Countless schools can do it every year with changes... illinois can too. The college landscape is not a bubble of blue bloods and then the "rest".

 

[IlliniDent]

Understood. It is probable that this coaching change will benefit the program in the long run. This is just the frustrated fan in me externalizing exasperation: we waited 4 years under Groce to get back to the show, and it didn't happen. With Tilmon and Pickett as part of our class, it was conceivable we would make it in next season. As of now, that seems a reach. So that wait continues. (I know the recruiting season still has a month to go).


That said, I am tremendously excited about DMW and Frazier. They are quality players and it's great that they determined illinois is still the place to be.

Let's be honest- Tilmon would have helped. Pickett leaving in no way affects next year in terms of making the tournament. Not that I didn't like him as a player but I expected very little of him next year.

 

[coryfor3]

Ulis' early playing time as a Freshman was due to his defense. Ulis was SEC defensive POY as a Soph. Smith's defense is no where near Ulis'. In fact the couple of times I saw Smith's defense, it was not considered good.

At Kentucky, you've got to get your playing time early somehow.
If you don't you have a difficult choice to make because either you play and play a lot as a freshman or you aren't going to play much there. For the most part, you need to establish your value right away or you get recruited over. If you aren't part of the Fab freshman that come in and play, there will be another wave that passes you by the next year.

 

[Love the Illini]

One of the big questions is if we don't make the tournament next year for the 5th year in a row what all of a sudden makes Illinois more appealing to come here. I think BU is a solid coach and a good hire but he is not a big name that is going to bring recruits to Illinois due to his name. If he struggles in his first year he is going to face many of the same issues Groce faced in trying to get top players to Illinois. It also does not help that 2018 is seen as a down year for instate talent. He may very well have to expand the recruiting base which is hard to do when you haven't been winning

 

[mattcoldagelli]

To be fair, we had most of that down-state talent signed, sealed, and delivered, but we chose to fire the head coach who recruited them, so that opened everything up again. We probably made the right decision in changing coaches now, but as Jeremy Werner and others have explained, that was a huge risk because it cut loose a great recruiting class. Time will tell whether it was a good move, but it's not accurate to say that we whiffed on the 2017 down-state talent that signed Illini NLIs.

"Probably"?

:tsk:

 

[Thor015]

Ulis at Kentucky was a lot more than serviceable backup right off the bat. Ulis averaged 24 minutes per game his first year on one of the most loaded teams in college basketball and Kentucky history. Not only did he average 24 minutes per game, but nobody on that team averaged more than 26 minutes per game, and that team had several NBAers.

The Ulis-like experience at UK is a major, major plus for Smith.

Ulis or Matthews? Which one to talk about if you are Calipari.

Smith might succeed at KY he might not.

Wish he would come to Illinois though. Because if he is truely good enough to make the NBA then the coaches we have can get him there. Especially given the offense BWood runs

 

[Thor015]

One of the big questions is if we don't make the tournament next year for the 5th year in a row what all of a sudden makes Illinois more appealing to come here. I think BU is a solid coach and a good hire but he is not a big name that is going to bring recruits to Illinois due to his name. If he struggles in his first year he is going to face many of the same issues Groce faced in trying to get top players to Illinois. It also does not help that 2018 is seen as a down year for instate talent. He may very well have to expand the recruiting base which is hard to do when you haven't been winning

BWoods offensive officiency and the uptempo play. It's a simple sell, we just need to win and everything else takes care of itself.

 

[Bogey99]

One of the big questions is if we don't make the tournament next year for the 5th year in a row what all of a sudden makes Illinois more appealing to come here. I think BU is a solid coach and a good hire but he is not a big name that is going to bring recruits to Illinois due to his name. If he struggles in his first year he is going to face many of the same issues Groce faced in trying to get top players to Illinois. It also does not help that 2018 is seen as a down year for instate talent. He may very well have to expand the recruiting base which is hard to do when you haven't been winning

The biggest difference will be more time for the new staff to develop relationships for the 2018 and beyond classes. Even if we don't make the tournament, hopefully recruits will see a new style of play and a solid foundation for the future. Not sure that five years of missed tourneys is really any different than four. It's all about the future outlook.

 

[Ubermensch]

as Jeremy Werner and others have explained, that was a huge risk because it cut loose a great recruiting class.

The worst reason ever to keep an obviously inferior coach. It is beyond silly. After 3 years and you're still not entirely sure he's out of his league, sure. Makes sense to not be hasty. After 5 years and it's obvious he's not a good enough coach or recruiter to compete in the B10 and nationally? Pure insanity.

Michael Porter, Mohamed Bamba, Kevin Knox and Brandon McCoy, sure. I get that. A top-40 power forward and a few top 150 guys? You're not a school who's serious about winning basketball games.

Illinois won this coaching cycle. In a big, big way. There's a forest behind those trees.

 

[Oskee67]

To be fair, we had most of that down-state talent signed, sealed, and delivered, but we chose to fire the head coach who recruited them, so that opened everything up again. We probably made the right decision in changing coaches now, but as Jeremy Werner and others have explained, that was a huge risk because it cut loose a great recruiting class. Time will tell whether it was a good move, but it's not accurate to say that we whiffed on the 2017 down-state talent that signed Illini NLIs.

I know our class was rated #11, but let's put that in context. Williams is coming off of a serious knee injury and Tilmon has not been exactly the same since his shoulder injury. Maybe it's not bothering him anymore, but he definitely did not perform to his potential this past year and was knocked down a star and dropped in the rankings (I know stars/rankings don't mean everything, etc. etc., but it is something to consider.). Pickett seems to be a classy guy and made first-team this year, If I'm remembering correctly. He will be missed, but I have a gut feeling the decision to leave was made for him after speaking with BU.

At the end of the day, Frazier and Williams are still here. We will probably be able to absorb Pickett leaving, if that is indeed what happens, given the roster we have. Tilmon's potential loss is magnified since it is a position of need, but that's just a pill we have to swallow. It will not put a dagger through the heart of the program, but perhaps a splinter in the finger instead. Rub some dirt on it and move on.

We've had top 10 classes under BW and it never amounted to anything. Trust the process with BU and the great staff he's put together. 10 years will not be cleaned up overnight.

 

[skyIdub]

Once again, if you really believe that this 2017 class would have proceeded without drama or change with Groce coming back....you are drinking a very sugary version of Groce-Aid.

 

[Fighter of the Nightman]

I've said this before, but I'm more of an "abstract" fan, I don't get caught up in specific plays we run or any one given recruit; I care more about the big picture, that SFC is viewed as a snakepit for opponents, that Illini basketball again is thought of as in that "next tier" below the Blue Bloods, etc .... so, for me, it's really simple. I believe, with little doubt, that we have talented enough players RIGHT NOW to fight for a Tournament berth with good coaching, and I believe BU is a very good coach. I also believe, with little doubt, that the staff he's assembled will get AT LEAST good enough players for him to coach up into teams that consistently make the NCAAs, and let's build from there. Mark Smith is icing on a cake of new opportunity to me. BU isn't Ron Zook, he isn't John Groce and we all knew that; we didn't hire him to come in here and reel in the talent needed to turn around a program immediately, we hired him because we saw him as an exceptional coach who could build us a program that wins consistently. We passed on Cuonzo (allegedly! ) because we were sick of the former. Let's give his staff some time.