I mean from a performance perspective. Not politics.
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Illini Basketball 2017-2018
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I mean from a performance perspective. Not politics.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
One plays with friends in low places, the other plays with friends in high places!
IMO, Finke is going to be your starting 5 man whether JT joins the team or not. JT will not start from day 1 and will have to earn his time. He will get significant minutes but right now Finke is your starting 5.
That being said we need JT and another guy of size for depth at the 4/5 slot.
Illini_1979
- Oregon
Nicely done. :thumb:
Sorry to disagree but JT would be the starter by BIG 10 play , and Black would be your starter before that. Finke will be coming back from his foot as well. JT helps out tons with allowing you to use Finke and Black other ways as well, along with DI and Kipper I would not be shocked at all to see 10 guys getting 15-25 min a game with very few playing over 30 very often
Finke is most ready to handle the offensive responsibilities of the 5 spot in BU's offense. Hopefully he can put on even more muscle and be a respectable defender in the paint.
Finke best get bigger and not worry about "stroki ng", looks like his job will be flash post, pass , and clean the glass. Defense , rebound and get the rock out to the guards. Black needs to keep to inside and keep on rebound , just like he did last season. Agree that he needs to move his feet , quit reaching, stay out of foul trouble. Check scoring from past BU teams, guards attack and score, bigs anchor middle, block out, rebound , get ball out. This might be other reason JT taking a second look.
In our current roster situation I think black is a 5 offensively but guards the 4 defensively. Finke can be in the 4 out, or the 5 offensively and guards the 4/5 defensively. If they're on the floor together Leron is the 5 on offense while Finke plays on the perimeter. Defensively Leron guards the 4 while Finke guards the 5.
Sal Iacuzzo
- Yonkers, NY
sitting out isn't really an issue. it isn't like we are going to play 13 guys.
icengineer
- Southern Illinois
icengineer
- Southern Illinois
If we get tilmon and Badocchi, I'm okay with passing on Bragg. I get it, he's good, but let's see what this staff can do. We may be pleasantly surprised.
So, if we go with the 'you are what you can guard' meme, then Black is a 4.
I'll bet all S&C's 10 billion internet points and every beach house known to man that black will play the 5 on offense more than any other position.
BananaShampoo
Captain 'Paign
- Phoenix, AZ
Including if Tilmon and/or Badocchi comes on board?
Yes. I don't see how he and Tilmon could be on the floor at the same time offensively. Neither one has enough basic perimeter skills to warrant being one of those 4 out spots for an extended period of time. It doesn't matter if those guys are guards, but it does matter that they have guard skills. If I recall correctly, initial word on Badocchi was that he played some wing in Italy. That gives me some hope he's a got at least basic ball handling and passing skills that could help him play some wing in college one day. I don't think he's a day one plug and play like Tilmon is though, so he would probably have some more time to develop anyway.
If we get Tilmon, I could see some Tilmon(5 on O and D) paired with Kipper (4), and Leron (5-O, 4-D) paired with Finke (4-O, 5-D). That also helps us level some height a bit. Late game offense situation if we're going two "bigs" I could see Tilmon/Finke. Late game depending on matchups anyone but Finke unless Tilmon has fouled and we need him to guard the 5. Lots of hypotheticals involving an rotations related to Tilmon though.
I think it is very difficult to predict starting lineups or rotations at this point. We tend to overrate the newbies and have fixed opinions on the remaining roster based on their performance and evaluation under Groce. Most of completely underestimated MM's development on the offensive end. I also would not have predicted TJL's defensive ability (particularly as he was not playing and assumed it was due to defense). I am hoping we also underestimated his shooting capability. There was also considerable improvement in MM and MF in rebounding. On the other hand I think we are getting much quicker athletes than the graduates and it is tough to predict the development of our existing roster. The starting lineup on day one and the end of the season could be much different. Without scotch or orange cool aid it is difficult to see a dramatically improved team. But I'm not out of scotch and say the pundits just don't understand.
Was Drew Cayce considered someone who would get meaningful minutes if the Illini would have still been under the old regime next season? Or more of a Liss type of clean-up-at-the-garbage-time of a blow out game kind of player? How will all this affect him if he is someone that we once considered would give us meaningful minutes next season? Or is he gone already? Or does no one really care?
icengineer
- Southern Illinois
He's a walk-on so I doubt he had expectations of playing much. It might seem even less likely with the new regime. We need practice bodies and a degree from UI is valuable on it's own.
Deleted member 16340
D
Guest
Or K-Hi:thumb:
I don't get this comment. What makes you say that about Leron? He's an outstanding rebounder, and could pick up a lot of garbage points in this system. He's got a killer instinct and very coachable IMO.
It's not a personal knock on Leron, but he is a terrible fit. He cannot play the 4 or the 5 in this offense without major improvements. He's a good rebounder, yes, but there is a lot more that the 5 has to do in this offense such as making reads from the high post. Leron does not have the size to pass over bigger players to a cutting guard, or the awareness to recognize the pass in the first place.
Watch the breakdown of the SFA offense, and tell me that it makes any sense to have Leron playing the 5.
There has been a decent amount of talk about this in the 2017-2018 thread, so this isn't a new idea.
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I'm with you, Leron is a beast but really an odd fit now.
Leron can easily do the minimum at the 5 spot in this offense, you're not giving him enough credit. He can set screens for cutters, and as a tough dude in general, he'll probably set really good ones. He might pick up a couple fouls on screens here and there, but setting a hard screen also sends a message. He has already been used in ball screens, so playing pick/handoff and roll on the open backside won't be new to him. He can hit a baby hook if he posts up off the roll, especially if its a good screen that forces a switch and he's covered by a guard. He's proven he can hit the elbow j, and at times step out to the 3, if his man sags off to help on the cutters.
As far as development, no doubt he will need to get better at passing as you say. Underwood really prioritizes passing. He's said many times he really thinks passing is under-practiced in today's game. Leron also needs to advance to the point that he can make a game move (pump, jab, Sikma) off the threat of his elbow J and score in one dribble. A counter to his baby hook in the post would be helpful too.
I get that Leron is not the most skilled dude in the world, but to say he can't play the 5 is not true. Also in this offense, people need to stop lumping the 4 and 5 together. The 4 is closer to the 1 in this continuity than the 5.
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