I’d think that’s best case scenario. If they’ve already done X-rays/mri etc and it's confirmed, just a matter of reducing pain and swelling and getting range of motion back. If it’s a “hyperextension” and no X-ray/mri has been done yet, you never know what else could be in there.
UNLV 89, Illinois 82 POSTGAME
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I’d think that’s best case scenario. If they’ve already done X-rays/mri etc and it's confirmed, just a matter of reducing pain and swelling and getting range of motion back. If it’s a “hyperextension” and no X-ray/mri has been done yet, you never know what else could be in there.
The first I knew Black had an injury is when I saw him with a sling on left arm during the second half. There was no mention from the TV broadcast of what caused the injury. It goes with saying that Black is so valuable , particularly going into BIG play.
Broken record... very thin on the frontcourt and need to upgrade talent level. Contrary to popular belief on this board that talent has not been a problem, fans now come to a realization that unless we upgrade overall talent, just making the tournament will remain the perennial goal every season.
It does not mean that we have bad players or no likable, just that it takes more to consistently compete in B1G and college basketball. BU seems like a very good coach IMO, but his success will hinder on his ability to bring talent via recruiting. And please save the "Ayo says hello" posts, Ayo is clearly not enough.
This is a fun team to watch develop, but if satisfaction is just based on winning, some may likely get disappointed.
It does not mean that we have bad players or no likable, just that it takes more to consistently compete in B1G and college basketball. BU seems like a very good coach IMO, but his success will hinder on his ability to bring talent via recruiting. And please save the "Ayo says hello" posts, Ayo is clearly not enough.
This is a fun team to watch develop, but if satisfaction is just based on winning, some may likely get disappointed.
Deleted member 4960
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So he ended up with 12 & 7. I don't think he did too bad of a job. Especially since both Groce and BU see him as a stretch 4.
Deleted member 4960
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I don't disagree that we need to upgrade our front court talent, but I disagree that our talent level isn't good enough to win. We have been leading I I believe in every game we lost. Execution and mistakes due to inexperience have cost us.
The issue with Finke IMO is that we need post presence, not a stretch 4, and more importantly, there is an overall "softness" in his game, especially on defense, even as a stretch 4.
But glad we at least have moved from the "Finke is a C or will be a C" discussion.
Dan
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The Leron Black injury appeared to have occurred around 7:50 1H when he chased down his own rebound.
Illinois-UNLV Replay:
http://www.espn.com/watch/player?id=3226495
Illinois-UNLV Replay:
http://www.espn.com/watch/player?id=3226495
Our overall talent is definitely not enough to consistently compete. As I said, without upgrading the overall talent, the bar will perennially stay at just making the tournament. Almost every team can claim that they have had stretches of good or adequate basketball, but overall talent prohibits you from obtaining consistency.
There is a clear separation between "liking" players, rooting for players, wanting players to improve, etc. and having the overall talent to become a consistent winner in the B1G. This is a fun team to watch develop, especially for some of us, yet not a team that has the ability to be a consistent winner.
I saw him this summer at the European championships, he is a major project.
If you mean compete to win the B1G, I agree. If you mean simply to compete in all games, I think we have the talent to do that. We just don't have the talent to win those games.
We need an infusion of big man talent for sure. I'm hoping there will be some late bloomers or some grad transfers that can come in next year. Also, I hope our freshmen making the sophomore leap will be an "infusion of talent" in and of itself. I guess we'll see...
Hopefully he can improve and become a good role player by his junior or senior year.
Total team effort
+1, this area alone is a major factor in all the recent losses. Alot can be attributed to inexperienced players, the term reckless hustle comes to mind. So happy to see them speed to lose ball, and run ball up the court , but being in control needs to happen. Other thing that needs to happen is them to just shoot the damn ball. They all act half scared to take a perimeter shot. Might be because when they miss it usually finds you a seat on the bench.
Alstork , IMO, is the one that seems to be lost the most. His defense is solid, but when we are in offense set , getting ball with a good opportunity to shoot, he thinks about it, then passes or dribbles away same chance. He has to be a leader, the young guys need him to assert himself, without him making an effort, we are losing any sort of momentum.
We look so lost at times, then like world beaters in next moment. Glad they are all getting time on court, and love our desire. It is aprocess, and glad we getting the kinks worked out. I have faith we are heading in the right direction, let the inexperienced players learn, lose fouls and turnovers, shoot the damn ball, we will be just fine. No need to worry about the tournament team right now. Work towards consistent play , with fewer mistakes, this team will be fine. On to next game.
+1, this area alone is a major factor in all the recent losses. Alot can be attributed to inexperienced players, the term reckless hustle comes to mind. So happy to see them speed to lose ball, and run ball up the court , but being in control needs to happen. Other thing that needs to happen is them to just shoot the damn ball. They all act half scared to take a perimeter shot. Might be because when they miss it usually finds you a seat on the bench.
Alstork , IMO, is the one that seems to be lost the most. His defense is solid, but when we are in offense set , getting ball with a good opportunity to shoot, he thinks about it, then passes or dribbles away same chance. He has to be a leader, the young guys need him to assert himself, without him making an effort, we are losing any sort of momentum.
We look so lost at times, then like world beaters in next moment. Glad they are all getting time on court, and love our desire. It is aprocess, and glad we getting the kinks worked out. I have faith we are heading in the right direction, let the inexperienced players learn, lose fouls and turnovers, shoot the damn ball, we will be just fine. No need to worry about the tournament team right now. Work towards consistent play , with fewer mistakes, this team will be fine. On to next game.
agreed. we really need him .
You compete to win, not sure what "simply to compete" means. Our talent level has screamed perennial bubble for the last 12 years (with the exception of 2010-11). Some enjoyable moments, some learning moments, some fun moment, but overall a team that strives to become the 7th or 8th team in the B1G that hopes to hear their name gets called on selection Sunday.
To take the next step and becoming a team that consistently feels secure on making the tournament, we need to improve overall talent. That's the next step, which is still short of consistently competing to win the B1G. We are far from competing for B1G titles.
I love the fight of this team. While the refs did them no favors, they need to cut out the silly fouls (i.e. The reaching in after the other team secures a rebound for example). With the aggression they play with on defense their will be fouls, they just need to be a little smarter to keep it to more reasonable levels. Some of that will come with experience. I do agree with Obelix that they need a talent upgrade especially in the front court. The only player that maybe considered a Center on this team is Ebo and he is just not strong enough right now to compete. This team is in desperate need of a rim protector.
That is every bit as preposterous as it has been for every single miserable pile of garbage season that has followed 2005.
The only team in that group that you could even make a colorable argument lacked the talent to compete at a high level was - ironically - by far the best of those teams, 2008-09.
The cavalry is not coming. Ayo Dosunmu isn't some unheard-of coup for post-05 Illini recruiting, and he's one guy at that.
If this is what Brad Underwood is going to produce out of this level of talent, then we're in for 3-4 years of humiliating catastrophe.
I don't believe that for a variety of reasons, mainly young guys who don't know what they're doing yet gaining experience. But lets be real, there's a healthy dose of vain, blind hope that this fanbase that has given more and received less over the past decade-plus than any other Power Five school by an order of magnitude could not possibly continue to be punished this cruelly, that the imminent non-viability of Big Ten revenue sports at U of I as a commercial entity can't possibly be real.
I think our talent level in the 1-3 spots is good. It's also inexperienced.
We are definitely behind the 8-ball this year in the frontcourt. I think Leron could start on many Big Ten teams, and Finke would get good minutes on most Big Ten teams, but that's not enough.
I think you make a good point that if satisfaction is based on winning, this year is going to be rough. But we just burned through 2 coaches who left the program worse than they found it, and there is a lot of uphill work to do just to get us to the middle of the pack. It won't happen overnight, and if we can't enjoy these high-energy, competitive games (Maryland, UNLV) and enjoy watching the growth of our young players, we're unreasonable.
Personally, I'm loving these games. Watching the team get better, watching hard-fought, close basketball games--this is why I tune in. Sure I want the wins, but those will come as the team grows up and learns Underwood's style. The older players need to unlearn Groceball, and the younger players need to gain experience. For now, at least they are entertaining.
Deleted member 631370
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Agree.
I'm damn glad to have Ayo on board. Big get for perception purposes. But Okoro or even Liddell are probably more important recruits than Ayo because of our dire need in the front court.
I think a backcourt of Frazier, Smith, Damonte, and TJL sets us up nicely for the next 2-3 years. For us to be a top-25 team and compete for a B1G title, however, we desperately need front court help.
It's not going to happen this year. Just gotta take our lumps and hope that we win enough games to build momentum going into next year.
Deleted member 631370
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Dude, it's not the LEVEL of talent. This isn't a matter of averaging the recruiting rankings of all the players, and spitting out some talent indicator.
This is about having talent in the right positions -- and with experience. Our most talented kid BY FAR is a freshman. We don't have a single rim protector. And our depth in the front court is nonexistent. I like Spicy G's future here, but he's very clearly a project -- and a freshman project, at that.
By the way......we have a grand total of 4 top-100 kids on our roster: Mark Smith, Trent Frazier, Aaron Jordan, and Leron Black. And two of those -- Frazier and Jordan -- were by no means consensus top-100 kids.
Think about that for a second. 4 top-100 kids, total. And not a single one over 6'7. If you think this is sufficient talent to go where we need to go as a program, we'll have to respectfully agree to disagree.
UNLV and Maryland were certainly more talented than we were. Probably a wash with Wake Forest. NW probably less so, but far more experienced. Bottom line is, we need to be on a Maryland/Ohio State/Michigan type of talent level, and we're not even close yet.
In the backcourt, we have the talent, especially in 2018 when we add Ayo. In the frontcourt, we need a rim protector. Can Ebo become that? idk, but I wish we had someone like Okoro coming in next year.
So far the team is doing what I expected - 3 nonconference losses and tough sledding at the start of the big ten. But regardless, I haven't enjoyed watching a 4 loss team more than these guys in a long time.
Those who are saying we need an influx of talent on this roster, I would ask which class over the first 11 games has you most optimistic, 2014, 15, 16 or 17?
'17 was Underwood's first class that he put/kept together within mere moments of being hired.
If and that's the big word here, IF he can continue to bring in that kind of talent, the future of the program is extremely bright with the brand of basketball he brings.
I do agree though, Ayo alone is far from enough for next year. Flo will hopefully see plenty of opportunity this coming week on his visit.
'17 was Underwood's first class that he put/kept together within mere moments of being hired.
If and that's the big word here, IF he can continue to bring in that kind of talent, the future of the program is extremely bright with the brand of basketball he brings.
I do agree though, Ayo alone is far from enough for next year. Flo will hopefully see plenty of opportunity this coming week on his visit.
Joel Goodson
- it's all ball bearings, nowadays
Good God, man, get a grip.
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