Forgive my wooden-ness, but your last clause of that last (long, run-on) sentence ends up leaving me wondering what exactly you're saying there. I savvy your heavy dose of negativity, though; that comes in loud and clear. Seems way, way early to get to that point, but to each his own. I'm not seeing humiliating catastrophe coming; maybe I'll be blind-sided.
UNLV 89, Illinois 82 POSTGAME
Forgive my wooden-ness, but your last clause of that last (long, run-on) sentence ends up leaving me wondering what exactly you're saying there. I savvy your heavy dose of negativity, though; that comes in loud and clear. Seems way, way early to get to that point, but to each his own. I'm not seeing humiliating catastrophe coming; maybe I'll be blind-sided.
Deleted member 631370
D
Guest
No doubt it's the 2017 class. I think it's a very, very good class -- but it's missing a key ingredient: a developed big man.
Get classes akin to 2017 -- and perhaps upgrade the bigs we're recruiting -- and we'll be in good shape.
The 2015 class just killed us. A pair of top-50 kids both transferred out. And no bigs.
We have the talent to not get our doors blown off several times a year like with Groce. (Which sucks because it was roughly the same amount of talent.)
That's what I mean by simply being able to compete. With a change of mindset, attitude, and talent, we will compete at the higher levels of the B1G. (meaning...we will be able to win more games)
Yeah, you're always competing to win, I guess I was just trying to say that we aren't in a talent dearth that makes us lose by tons. We are in positions to win games...just can't get over the hump. Hopefully the talent upgrade (at the right positions) gets us there.
Not sure about that. I'd argue that Weber really left the program much worse than obviously what he found, which was an amazing team. I do not think Groce left the program in worse shape and actually (even with the loss of Tilmon) the current state is a little better (or equal at worst) than what Bruce left in 2012. Yet, it was too little, too late and Groce failed to significantly upgrade the talent level. The early promise and signs of a recruiting turnaround under Groce never really materialized until it was probably too late.
Much of the success for Underwood will also depend on his ability to upgrade the overall talent level (which is correlated but different than just rankings).
Lack of depth =/= Lack of talent
Lack of experience =/= Lack of talent
Lack of positional balance =/= Lack of talent
Lack of fit to system =/= Lack of talent
Some of those other things are problems for this Illini team. The talent is not.
And the idea that we're suddenly going to wake up with 10 is ahistorical and fanciful.
Brad Underwood's success is predicated on building a 3rd outpost of what Bob Huggins is doing at WVU and what Frank Martin is doing at KSU/South Carolina. Are those teams loaded with elite recruits? Do they have the talent to compete?
What those teams have is a bottomless supply of Kipper Nichols' and Damonte Williams' who play with their hair on fire and execute flawlessly.
They also have big, long rim protectors, which we need badly, agreed.
I am honestly not sure about that. We were a "bubble" team under Groce and we look as a bubble team (at best) right now. We have also not faced the better teams, our competition has been middle of the pack (all losses) and our wins are against low teams so far.
What BU did at SFA is certainly admirable, but there is a huge difference competing with SFA in a very low conference (not even mid-major) and consistently competing in the B1G.
skyIdub
Winged Warrior
I get that, but didn't those teams compete in the NCAA as well? Against some pretty good teams.
Definitely, but you can't always go off of NCAA wins to judge a team. See Groce for a perfect example.
BU will earn his pay by doing what he did in conference at SFA, here in Champaign. (hopefully to the same degree!)
We will see if BU can make a turnaround in B1G play like he did last year at OSU. We are a bubble team for sure, hopefully he can squeeze a lot of wins out of this team and set us up for success next year.
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skyIdub
Winged Warrior
Well, pour orange kool aid over my head and color me enthusiastic, but I think Frazier, Damonte, Black, Smith, and Kipper on the current team are all talented enough to win in the BIG. Add Ayo next year and there is more than enough talent to win.
We are judging this current groups talent while they are trying to ingest an entire new system as freshman and sophs after 4 losses. Once they learn to play without the silly fouls, and they will, once this system clicks, and it will, they will win in the BIG.
We are judging this current groups talent while they are trying to ingest an entire new system as freshman and sophs after 4 losses. Once they learn to play without the silly fouls, and they will, once this system clicks, and it will, they will win in the BIG.
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GortTheRobot
- North Bethesda, Maryland
For the most part, I agree with your assessment, and I'm not going to take things out of context to strengthen my own argument, so my thoughts are an addendum, not refutation.
We need an upgrade, but having a coaching staff that can recognize talent means we don't have to swing for the fences all the time like Groce tried to do. That doesn't mean we shouldn't go for 4 and 5 stars, just that it's nice to know we can work with a combination of 3, 4, and an occasional 5 with a good coach.
Yes, we are far from B1G titles, but not that far from being a top 5 team. I see us in the top 5 or 6 next year and solidly in the dance.
RichBradIllini
- Peoria
And in U's first year (make that 8-9 months) you were expecting what, exactly?
I still think it's way too early to say we don't have the talent. You can tell the team is still lost out there half the time. And I think we can all agree we haven't played a full 40 min of good basketball yet (or even 25-30 min). But yet we could still be undefeated right now. I think it's much more appropriate to discuss the talent thing in February.
Who is our most talented kid by Far? That honor seems to change almost every game. So far this year I would suggest that it has been... Jordan, Finke, Smith, Lucas, Frazier, Nichols and Black. And, of the Freshman, I'm not sure you could pick between Smith, Frazier and Williams right now.
Just out of curiosity -- Say in '19, we so happen to land Okoro & Liddel, and perhaps one of Khalil Whitney/Malik Hall. For the hell of it, say we add a decent transfer big in the meantime. I realize that's all easier said than done, but if that were to happen, do you feel that meets the level of talent required to "consistently compete"?
Concerns:
1. Blaming the refs for foul calls won't help us. We had foul problems almost every game of the season, and I do not think all refs on earth just hate us. If we cannot fix it going on, it's on the coaching staff. Teaching players to adjust to new rules and do not make stupid fouls should not be that hard. Coaches are professionals to do that.
2. Kipper is a very good player but not in the way he is used now. BU wants him to be the passer and dribbler from high post, but I see too many TOs and bad decisions from Kipper in that role. He is one of the better 3 point shooters on the team and can grab some offensive rebounds from nowhere, and he is so good in defense, but he is not a quality high post coordinator, as of now.
3. If there is one place for Finke in B1G, then it is a bench stretch 4 who comes on shooting some corner 3s and then goes back sitting. The way we use him is beyond his ceiling and will cost us against any competitive opponents. He is too slow in doing anything to make his shooting and passing ability to work on high level.
4. We probably need a dedicated post to monitor Black's injury. But I think it's a good idea to rest Black in the longwood game and give Spicy G more chances. From the limited time in this game, I see Spicy G's potential to fight the best bigs in the country and he's not as an big offensive burden I thought him to be.
5. The lack of perimeter threat from Lucas and Alstork makes the lane very congested . Those one-dimensional players should come from bench to do what they can, not starting. We have great spacing when Frazier and Jordan is in game. They are also plus defenders on this team.
6. We can win this game if we zone and make McCoy sandwich the whole game. The stupid pressing defense (which left McCoy totally open and gifted mooreling a clear lane to drive) at the start of game cost us several fouls and 10 points deficiencies which decided the game. The in-game defense strategy of BU will be his and our major weakness onward if BU refuses to adapt. BU's defense coaching is better than I thought and his team plays with great energy. But almost every game BU tries to do something stupidly risky in certain period of game and gifts some points to the opponent.
1. Blaming the refs for foul calls won't help us. We had foul problems almost every game of the season, and I do not think all refs on earth just hate us. If we cannot fix it going on, it's on the coaching staff. Teaching players to adjust to new rules and do not make stupid fouls should not be that hard. Coaches are professionals to do that.
2. Kipper is a very good player but not in the way he is used now. BU wants him to be the passer and dribbler from high post, but I see too many TOs and bad decisions from Kipper in that role. He is one of the better 3 point shooters on the team and can grab some offensive rebounds from nowhere, and he is so good in defense, but he is not a quality high post coordinator, as of now.
3. If there is one place for Finke in B1G, then it is a bench stretch 4 who comes on shooting some corner 3s and then goes back sitting. The way we use him is beyond his ceiling and will cost us against any competitive opponents. He is too slow in doing anything to make his shooting and passing ability to work on high level.
4. We probably need a dedicated post to monitor Black's injury. But I think it's a good idea to rest Black in the longwood game and give Spicy G more chances. From the limited time in this game, I see Spicy G's potential to fight the best bigs in the country and he's not as an big offensive burden I thought him to be.
5. The lack of perimeter threat from Lucas and Alstork makes the lane very congested . Those one-dimensional players should come from bench to do what they can, not starting. We have great spacing when Frazier and Jordan is in game. They are also plus defenders on this team.
6. We can win this game if we zone and make McCoy sandwich the whole game. The stupid pressing defense (which left McCoy totally open and gifted mooreling a clear lane to drive) at the start of game cost us several fouls and 10 points deficiencies which decided the game. The in-game defense strategy of BU will be his and our major weakness onward if BU refuses to adapt. BU's defense coaching is better than I thought and his team plays with great energy. But almost every game BU tries to do something stupidly risky in certain period of game and gifts some points to the opponent.
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Oldtoysrock
- Sarasota, Florida
Of course there was no mention of Leron’s injury during the broadcast, they were too busy talking to Kareem about his life, his book, and everything except this game. From just after half time until nearly the 11+ minute mark.
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I agree a zone defense likely will cut down on fouls. But I wonder if coach is more interested in playing and teaching with his system. Which I can respect if it results in long-term success. At OKC I believe he changed defensive schemes when he realized they didn't have the athletes. He had said Illinois has better athletes than OKst.
I am still on the BU train! Team definitely needs to upgrade talent in front court and needs to find an established shooter to ever compete in Big Dance though. I love the style of play and I see a culture change taking place. Won’t be able to overhaul program without those additions though