FBI College Basketball Corruption Investigation

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#1,451      

champaignchris

C
champaignchris
It’s probably just the frustration with the last few Illinois seasons talking, but I kind of hope the whole corrupt mountain of lies burns to the ground.

How many more MSUs, Baylors, PSUs and UNCs are out there? (And really, I shouldn’t be lumping UNC in with the others... sham classes aren’t quite on the same level as covering up sexual assaults.) Filth permeates the sport. We all know that everyone cheats. We all know that the better programs got that way by cheating better than others. We all know the NCAA treats some programs differently than others.

Screw it. Burn it down.
 
#1,454      

ChuckM

C
ChuckM
illinitiger said:
I still think the G league for a year for prep drafts enables kids that are desperately chasing an early paycheck do get paid and would cleanup college ball to some degree.

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It definitely could help if the NBA puts a lot of money into the league. How many great coaches or really good coaches would go to the G league to teach the kids? How many people even watch or pay attention to the G league? I don't think the NBA will ever put enough money into it. Plus how many scouts are you going to need to send to High Schools all across the country. After all it's always about the money right? The NBA benefits from the one and done rule big time. Silver doesn't see it though.
 
#1,455      

Deleted member 19448

D
Guest
Deleted member 19448
champaignchris said:
It’s probably just the frustration with the last few Illinois seasons talking, but I kind of hope the whole corrupt mountain of lies burns to the ground.

How many more MSUs, Baylors, PSUs and UNCs are out there? (And really, I shouldn’t be lumping UNC in with the others... sham classes aren’t quite on the same level as covering up sexual assaults.) Filth permeates the sport. We all know that everyone cheats. We all know that the better programs got that way by cheating better than others. We all know the NCAA treats some programs differently than others.

Screw it. Burn it down.
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Full agreement with this. Burn it down and then figure out if it is gonna be legit student athletes or semi pro sports going forward so everyone knows the rules.


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#1,456      

illinitiger

I
illinitiger
FiveStar said:
What a great article. Fran McCaffrey you dog.
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I got a chuckle out of this, among other things: "Terry Brands has been following the lead of McCaffery and Ferentz, providing .... unwanted dating advice to a prized recruit for more than a decade."

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#1,457      

illinitiger

I
illinitiger
ChuckM said:
It definitely could help if the NBA puts a lot of money into the league. How many great coaches or really good coaches would go to the G league to teach the kids? How many people even watch or pay attention to the G league? I don't think the NBA will ever put enough money into it. Plus how many scouts are you going to need to send to High Schools all across the country. After all it's always about the money right? The NBA benefits from the one and done rule big time. Silver doesn't see it though.
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I suspect the NBA prep scouting would be AAU circuits. Agree NBA would need to commit more to G league, but they have the money. Development league and prep drafts work for Baseball.


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#1,458      

Calvin

C
Calvin
ChuckM said:
Unfortunately Lamont Evans was talking money the day after Underwood hired him as an assistant.The report is very damaging and he talks about giving kids money and steering them toward the agents at Okie State throughout the 2016-17 season.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/press-release/file/998756/download
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Damaging to him, definitely. I don't think there's anything new here, though. We all know how this worked.

> NCAA wants cheap labor, puts insane restrictions on the market for athletic talent

=> Coaches need to compete for talent, but can't do so directly without risk of getting caught

=> Coaches hire "recruiters" who do all the dirty work. Mostly avoid problems

=> This model had gone on literally for decades. Programs get caught with regularity, but the NCAA is working for the Universities, and the public doesn't care, so penalties are for show only, mostly slaps on the wrist.

=> 2016 Someone in the FBI wants to make a name for themself, realizes the funds flowing through a university means that bribery and money laundering laws are actually being broken, and not just silly NCAA rules

Bottom line is coaches are mostly insulated, and without compelling evidence, the FBI might not be able to pin illegal behavior on coaches, who were already taking precautions to leave the risk of wrongdoing with the assistants.

I'm really skeptical that this goes much further. Smart coaches will be out of the loop intentionally, and leave it to assistants to coordinate agent or booster money. Even if they were involved, coaches are going to be able to defend themselves to a large degree unless they were caught actively engaging in the moving the money.

That's just my sense of it, and obviously my crystal ball is about as bad as the next guys. The fact that this goes after agents and assistants, and not the rampant booster activity, says to me it's a pretty narrow focus on the easiest folks to catch.
 
#1,459      

ChuckM

C
ChuckM
Calvin said:
Damaging to him, definitely. I don't think there's anything new here, though. We all know how this worked.

> NCAA wants cheap labor, puts insane restrictions on the market for athletic talent

=> Coaches need to compete for talent, but can't do so directly without risk of getting caught

=> Coaches hire "recruiters" who do all the dirty work. Mostly avoid problems

=> This model had gone on literally for decades. Programs get caught with regularity, but the NCAA is working for the Universities, and the public doesn't care, so penalties are for show only, mostly slaps on the wrist.

=> 2016 Someone in the FBI wants to make a name for themself, realizes the funds flowing through a university means that bribery and money laundering laws are actually being broken, and not just silly NCAA rules

Bottom line is coaches are mostly insulated, and without compelling evidence, the FBI might not be able to pin illegal behavior on coaches, who were already taking precautions to leave the risk of wrongdoing with the assistants.

I'm really skeptical that this goes much further. Smart coaches will be out of the loop intentionally, and leave it to assistants to coordinate agent or booster money. Even if they were involved, coaches are going to be able to defend themselves to a large degree unless they were caught actively engaging in the moving the money.

That's just my sense of it, and obviously my crystal ball is about as bad as the next guys. The fact that this goes after agents and assistants, and not the rampant booster activity, says to me it's a pretty narrow focus on the easiest folks to catch.
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Well said. John Calipari is a great example of someone that had to know what has gone on in his schools programs but has never been implicated in anything serious himself.
 
#1,461      

whatahack

W
St. Peters MO
whatahack
It seems that coaches who have moved on to another school when violations have occurred at their previous school skate by while the school gets the punishment.

Do you think the coaches in this scenario will finally be punished??
 
#1,462      

BillyBob1

BillyBob1
Champaign
BillyBob1
whatahack said:
It seems that coaches who have moved on to another school when violations have occurred at their previous school skate by while the school gets the punishment.

Do you think the coaches in this scenario will finally be punished??
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Since it’s the FBI, it will be a legal matter before it’s an NCAA matter. Right?
 
#1,464      

gibb52

G
gibb52
ChuckM said:
Well said. John Calipari is a great example of someone that had to know what has gone on in his schools programs but has never been implicated in anything serious himself.
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Every head coach knows everything that goes on in his program. They provide the sausage recipe, then leave the building.
 
#1,466      

ChuckM

C
ChuckM
gibb52 said:
Every head coach knows everything that goes on in his program. They provide the sausage recipe, then leave the building.
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I don't think any of the coaches anticipated wire taps. And if the FBI is really serious, which they seem to be, then when those cell doors start locking I think some of those guys will start talking to try to get deals. All I can say is it's about time. This should also make the NCAA realize how ineffective they are in policing their own rules.
 
#1,468      

gibb52

G
gibb52
ChuckM said:
I don't think any of the coaches anticipated wire taps. And if the FBI is really serious, which they seem to be, then when those cell doors start locking I think some of those guys will start talking to try to get deals. All I can say is it's about time. This should also make the NCAA realize how ineffective they are in policing their own rules.
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Remember the NCAA, much like Roger Goodell and Rob Manfred, are the "commissioners" of college sports. They enforce the rules that are voted on and handed to them by the member schools. They don't make the rules on their own, so in many ways it's a shoot the messenger situation.

If the member schools wanted some real teeth to these enforcement guidelines they would enact some real rules and give the NCAA some real authority to put the hammer down on offenders. Draw your own conclusions as to why they don't.
 
#1,469      

gibb52

G
gibb52
afpharmdawg said:
Let basketball do what hockey does. Draft a player and that player can still go to college for as long as they like once out of school then the team that drafted them signs them if they want. This gives players a chance to get an education and develop as a player.
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There isn't billions of $$ of revenue at stake in college hockey. I agree that if everyone wanted a solution one could easily be found.
 
#1,470      

illinitiger

I
illinitiger
gibb52 said:
There isn't billions of $$ of revenue at stake in college hockey. I agree that if everyone wanted a solution one could easily be found.
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I'd argue that NCAAB revenue wouldnt be impacted.

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#1,471      

IlliniCaboose

IlliniCaboose
IlliniCaboose
I rarely, if ever, follow the NBA or know anything about their union or CBA but couldn't they just say keep the age limit for the first round of the draft and put a restriction on players aged 18 that they could only be drafted in the second round? That way there's less financial risk for the organization and even making the league minimum (or whatever 2nd round picks sign for) the player gets a chance to provide for their family and not pretend to interested in college.
They could make the contracts short, say 1 season so if the player blows up and becomes an all star they aren't making pocket change for the first 4 or 5 years?
As I said I know nothing about contracts or the NBA so there might be several reasons for that not to work, just a thought.

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#1,472      

PtownIllini8

P
PtownIllini8
gibb52 said:
Just about everyone in CBB knows exactly how the game is played, and exactly what the rules are. Don't be fooled.
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Yep, no exceptions to the normal rule, everything is 100% one way and you know more than the US Attorney and the FBI.......O........K.........
 
#1,473      

gibb52

G
gibb52
PtownIllini8 said:
Yep, no exceptions to the normal rule, everything is 100% one way and you know more than the US Attorney and the FBI.......O........K.........
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I don't recall stating that I know more than the FBI or the US Attorney. They have their evidence, and plenty of it I'm sure.

I said everyone knows the game. I didn't say everyone plays it the same way. There are filthy dirty programs and coaches, there are dirty, somewhat dirty and fairly clean programs as well.

Everyone knows who is cheating, exactly how and how bad are details not available to everyone.

College BB and FB are a cesspool of corruption and cheating and this investigation might be step 1 in cleaning it up if the FBI has the goods on a lot of coaches. Let's wait and see.
 
#1,474      

IlliniCaboose

IlliniCaboose
IlliniCaboose
gibb52 said:
I don't recall stating that I know more than the FBI or the US Attorney. They have their evidence, and plenty of it I'm sure.

I said everyone knows the game. I didn't say everyone plays it the same way. There are filthy dirty programs and coaches, there are dirty, somewhat dirty and fairly clean programs as well.

Everyone knows who is cheating, exactly how and how bad are details not available to everyone.

College BB and FB are a cesspool of corruption and cheating and this investigation might be step 1 in cleaning it up if the FBI has the goods on a lot of coaches. Let's wait and see.
Click to expand...


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#1,475      

Calvin

C
Calvin
I seriously doubt the NBA will change it's rules on the draft, as they have a really good system in place from their point of view. They want to keep costs / salaries low, which the current rules do pretty well.

They do not want to pay for potential. The one and done rule gives them power as it causes a lot of players to do a year of college. Players on average develop more maturity, and also have to prove themselves further before getting drafted than they would otherwise. It also gives them a discount bin, so to speak for players who get injured. Once drafted, they play for below market salaries before eventually hitting a payday based on their market value.

So I don't see the NBA changing. If anything, they would want a 2 and done model to increase their benefits. That means there will be valuable players in college, which means a black market. And it will be around as long as college tries to maintain it's cost model.
 
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