The Illinois Football Coaching Search

[ChiefGritty]

These are good questions and cannot be answered unless he were to be hired.

Well, except to the extent that these are the kinds of questions Whitman needs to be asking in investigating candidates.

People are saying, in a positive way, "Whitman has his guy, it's just signing the contract and dealing with HR requirements". I hope he doesn't. Obviously I also hope and assume that he had already done a lot of legwork on the coaches he's looking at and had an idea of what he was dealing with, but he should also really put a lot of importance on what he learns from these guys face to face.

He was going to stop at nothing in the Underwood process to use his salesmanship and his resources to woo a sitting Power Five coach. That we even heard names like Danny Manning and Bobby Hurley was a testament to that, it was a single-minded thing. He's obviously very good at scouring the landscape for opportunities others might not see, and Underwood is proof of that and it all seems to have worked out, but I don't think this football process is that kind of thing.

We need to find the right fit. Whitman always wants a splash and immediate surface-level credibility. I think the two can be harmonized together, but there's a tension there, and that's where my worry is in the process.

 

[Ubermensch]

I just hope JW is reading this forum, so he doesn't make any mistakes.

 

[EyeoftheIllini]

One thing I’ll say about Mack Brown’s time at Texas later in his career is he was getting commits from 4 and 5 stars very early in process. A lot of those guys failed to continue to develop last year of high school and felt entitled. Also left very little room to sign late risers. So though his classes looked great on paper, they weren’t as good on paper. And that entitlement led to poor culture on team. Charlie Strong had to deal with that — talent not as good as it seemed and changing culture — which did him no favors, especially at a place like Texas where your grace period is minuscule. But Brown seems to be doing well at NC. Think the time away made him a little hungrier.

 

[ChiefGritty]

a lot of the national discourse was the same about Mack Brown at a similar juncture and now its worked out splendidly for UNC.
So there is at least some track record of success for "retreads" who had a down period but got a fresh start.

A coach with a proven history of success with a chip on their shoulder would a great grab for us. If we did land BB, I'd hope he has the same fire as when Mack got tossed by Texas.

Fire and chip on the shoulder is one thing, but if Mack Brown had been rejuvenated and brought back Greg Davis as OC and taken ownership of all the gameplanning and started recruiting way into future classes (an underrated source of his problems at Texas) again, I have no doubt that he would have failed.

Brown is succeeding at UNC because he's created a totally different role for himself than he ever had in his previous career, by design. He's hired and empowered coordinators he'd never worked with before, and he's putting his efforts into the parts of a 2020 college football program where he's a difference maker.

You knew none of that by looking at his Wikipedia page.

That would be my first question to any of these guys, when they think about taking our job, how would them as Illinois HC differ from the coach they have been in the past?

One thing I’ll say about Mack Brown’s time at Texas later in his career is he was getting commits from 4 and 5 stars very early in process. A lot of those guys failed to continue to develop last year of high school and felt entitled. Also left very little room to sign late risers. So though his classes looked great on paper, they weren’t as good on paper. And that entitlement led to poor culture on team. Charlie Strong had to deal with that — talent not as good as it seemed and changing culture — which did him no favors, especially at a place like Texas where your grace period is minuscule. But Brown seems to be doing well at NC. Think the time away made him a little hungrier.

Bingo. Everyone marveled on Signing Day that Texas already had virtually an entire Top 10 class locked in for the next year, all of these in-state kids that were feted as royalty in Texas by committing at 16 or whatever. It proved to be a really shortsighted model. That Brown and the UT mystique were capable of locking down the best sophomores in Texas was a remarkable recruiting feat, but it wasn't a good idea for building the UT program.

 

[Deleted member 747671]

Well, except to the extent that these are the kinds of questions Whitman needs to be asking in investigating candidates.

People are saying, in a positive way, "Whitman has his guy, it's just signing the contract and dealing with HR requirements". I hope he doesn't. Obviously I also hope and assume that he had already done a lot of legwork on the coaches he's looking at and had an idea of what he was dealing with, but he should also really put a lot of importance on what he learns from these guys face to face.

He was going to stop at nothing in the Underwood process to use his salesmanship and his resources to woo a sitting Power Five coach. That we even heard names like Danny Manning and Bobby Hurley was a testament to that, it was a single-minded thing. He's obviously very good at scouring the landscape for opportunities others might not see, and Underwood is proof of that and it all seems to have worked out, but I don't think this football process is that kind of thing.

We need to find the right fit. Whitman always wants a splash and immediate surface-level credibility. I think the two can be harmonized together, but there's a tension there, and that's where my worry is in the process.

The football job is a whole different beast than basketball. Not just in the way the sport is played, recruited, and developed, but also the expectations and requirements of the job. Illinois basketball, contrary to what some may say, is in fact a top 20 job. Illinois football is probably in the 40-50ish range. That's a big difference in both perception and expectations. When a top 20 job is open, the AD very well can snoop around for a "steal" type of hire. That's very difficult and nearly impossible for a 50ish program. The closest thing to a steal Whitman can get in football is Clawson and he is a solid coach, but has nowhere near the ceiling of an Underwood. JW is also no dummy and he made this coaching decision for a reason. He wants to be the only B1G/midwest job open, and one of the few P5 ones at that. I think he's attacking this as a supply/demand thing. "If you want a bigtime salary in a big time conference, we're the opening and you can win here." There are enough candidates out there that legitimately want the job, that JW needs to really do his homework and make the right choice. I think football coach is the most difficult hire for an AD to make. The sheer size of the operation: assistant coaches, support staff, players, etc gives you so many variables that can determine of a coach/program is a success of a failure.

 

[Dan]

Update at Illinois

Illinois conducted multiple interviews for its vacant head coaching position Monday and Tuesday and sources told FootballScoop that Bret Bielema was among them.

footballscoop.com

 

[PackofIllini12]

Well first off, allegations. Not saying there's no chance he did start that scandal, but please share where they vacated wins or got punished in any way for it. Fact is, it hasn't hurt them (yet). I'll agree once he's show caused or UNC vacates wins and Brown is implicated.

I'll be the first to admit if a coach wins us a natty, then proceeds to never win another, and has one losing season in 8 seasons after it, I'm going to consider him the greatest hire in Illini history. He had Texas competing for a shot at the title for what, a solid decade, maybe decade and a half? That is all time stuff, regardless of where you coach.

Speaking of that, I'll admit Texas is one of the easier places to win at. And Brown did start a downturn, but he left that team in a spot that wasn't far off from where he found it, and I would argue better. It isn't his fault they hired Strong.

Mack Brown has coached 31 years and has 5 losing seasons to his name, 4 of which coming in his first 5 years as HC. He's an all timer if there ever was one.

I don't think Beilema is a bad coach, but I cannot put him near the ranks of Brown.

These were not allegations, this was legitimate fact. Players for both basketball and football went from flunking out of school to suddenly being on the Dean's List. Additionally, kids were graduating with minors and majors they had no idea they were getting because of these classes. All of it started in the early 90s when Dean Smith, Roy Williams, and Brown were at UNC. Its how they kept Julius Peppers, Rashad McCants, and Sean May eligible for their time at UNC. Several radio shows in DC and North Carolina actually did a great job of investigating it and broadcasting that info and it is one of my biggest annoyances with the NCAA.

UNC got completely off. They argued the paper scandal was an academics issue, rather than an NCAA/athletics matter, and needed to be handled by the accreditation panel instead of the NCAA.

Fire and chip on the shoulder is one thing, but if Mack Brown had been rejuvenated and brought back Greg Davis as OC and taken ownership of all the gameplanning and started recruiting way into future classes (an underrated source of his problems at Texas) again, I have no doubt that he would have failed.

Brown is succeeding at UNC because he's created a totally different role for himself than he ever had in his previous career, by design. He's hired and empowered coordinators he'd never worked with before, and he's putting his efforts into the parts of a 2020 college football program where he's a difference maker.

You knew none of that by looking at his Wikipedia page.

That would be my first question to any of these guys, when they think about taking our job, how would them as Illinois HC differ from the coach they have been in the past?


Bingo. Everyone marveled on Signing Day that Texas already had virtually an entire Top 10 class locked in for the next year, all of these in-state kids that were feted as royalty in Texas by committing at 16 or whatever. It proved to be a really shortsighted model. That Brown and the UT mystique were capable of locking down the best sophomores in Texas was a remarkable recruiting feat, but it wasn't a good idea for building the UT program.

Phil Longo is the OC, not whoever Greg Davis is.

For sure, Brown has good coordinators now. But his downfall at Texas was failing to develop those 4 and 5 stars and letting Drew Brees, Nick Foles, Johnny Manziel, and other highly rated QBs get away from him.

I am fully expecting the same to happen at UNC. Howell hasn't developed any further, if anything I think he, as an individual, has regressed a bit in accuracy.

 

[Deleted member 747671]

Update at Illinois

Illinois conducted multiple interviews for its vacant head coaching position Monday and Tuesday and sources told FootballScoop that Bret Bielema was among them.

footballscoop.com

Source: Illinois Loyalty

 

[illinihawk16]

The football job is a whole different beast than basketball. Not just in the way the sport is played, recruited, and developed, but also the expectations and requirements of the job. Illinois basketball, contrary to what some may say, is in fact a top 20 job. Illinois football is probably in the 40-50ish range. That's a big difference in both perception and expectations. When a top 20 job is open, the AD very well can snoop around for a "steal" type of hire. That's very difficult and nearly impossible for a 50ish program. The closest thing to a steal Whitman can get in football is Clawson and he is a solid coach, but has nowhere near the ceiling of an Underwood. JW is also no dummy and he made this coaching decision for a reason. He wants to be the only B1G/midwest job open, and one of the few P5 ones at that. I think he's attacking this as a supply/demand thing. "If you want a bigtime salary in a big time conference, we're the opening and you can win here." There are enough candidates out there that legitimately want the job, that JW needs to really do his homework and make the right choice. I think football coach is the most difficult hire for an AD to make. The sheer size of the operation: assistant coaches, support staff, players, etc gives you so many variables that can determine of a coach/program is a success of a failure.

Completely agree with your assessment on top 20 job for basketball vs 40ish/50ish job for football and how that changes what the AD can do with regards to a "steal" type of hire. I don't know if JW necessarily planned out that he would make a coaching change because we're the only B1G/midwest job open, though. He said it in his presser that 2020 was the year he targeted a ways out for deciding to either extend or make a change. I think it was more just by chance that we're one of the only ones open right now. With that said, I don't know if we'll stay one of the only ones (see: Michigan).

 

[IlliniFandom]

Update at Illinois

Illinois conducted multiple interviews for its vacant head coaching position Monday and Tuesday and sources told FootballScoop that Bret Bielema was among them.

footballscoop.com

Ugh...totally uninterested in Bielema. Some success at Wisconsin, couldn't replicate in Arkansas (which is like Illinois, the red headed step child of their conference) so what makes us think he can do it here, and has bounced around to different jobs. Now a linebacker's coach for the worst team in the NFL? Also with some controversy that follows him around? I'm sorry, just not the mold of coach that I'm hoping for. BU had success at each and every level and is now successful with us. Not sure if I put much hope in Bielema and hope we don't make this hire.

 

[Deleted member 747671]

Completely agree with your assessment on top 20 job for basketball vs 40ish/50ish job for football and how that changes what the AD can do with regards to a "steal" type of hire. I don't know if JW necessarily planned out that he would make a coaching change because we're the only B1G/midwest job open, though. He said it in his presser that 2020 was the year he targeted a ways out for deciding to either extend or make a change. I think it was more just by chance that we're one of the only ones open right now. With that said, I don't know if we'll stay one of the only ones (see: Michigan).

Yeah that's true on the timing. Luck definitely played a part of it. Saying he planned it was not accurate on my part. More like he wants to take advantage of the timing and environment. 2020 was always a key year, based on the contract alone (extend or fire). I think Whitman is trying to punch above his level and he may succeed in doing it based on the current circumstances. I think he has a good list of guys that want the job that he's kind of keeping in his back pocket for right now. Liepold, Monken, and Bielema would break down the door for this job. These are all just guesses and opinions by the way. I am definitely not an insider. I'm a random mid-30s alum working from home in the suburbs lol.

 

[TheDrinkinLincoln]

Ugh...totally uninterested in Bielema. Some success at Wisconsin, couldn't replicate in Arkansas (which is like Illinois, the red headed step child of their conference) so what makes us think he can do it here, and has bounced around to different jobs. Now a linebacker's coach for the worst team in the NFL? Also with some controversy that follows him around? I'm sorry, just not the mold of coach that I'm hoping for. BU had success at each and every level and is now successful with us. Not sure if I put much hope in Bielema and hope we don't make this hire.

Agreed, I just don't think Bielema is worth the headache. There is too much smoke about his skeezy ways and I honestly don't think he can out Wisconsin the real Wisconsin. I would much rather have Liepold or Clawson. Those two are much more the BU type and people I feel safer about than a guy who has been bouncing around the NFL the past couple of years.

 

[RedRocksIllini]

You needing an offensive coordinator? I'm available, I coached two years of JV football 30 years ago.

I hope you have better luck landing a job than I did. I applied for the Linebackers Coach but was told I was overqualified because I owned an electric football game as a kid.

 

[illini0440]

Ugh...totally uninterested in Bielema. Some success at Wisconsin, couldn't replicate in Arkansas (which is like Illinois, the red headed step child of their conference) so what makes us think he can do it here, and has bounced around to different jobs. Now a linebacker's coach for the worst team in the NFL? Also with some controversy that follows him around? I'm sorry, just not the mold of coach that I'm hoping for. BU had success at each and every level and is now successful with us. Not sure if I put much hope in Bielema and hope we don't make this hire.

Arkansas and Illinois are more different than they are alike. Much less expectations to win here than there, much easier to win in the B1G west than the SEC. Win the west here and you are a game away from the rose bowl at least. He recruited at Wisky which has similar academic hurdles as here. Of all the candidates he would put together the best staff. He really isn't as brash or as bad as people make him out to be he is just honest and says what's on his mind.

 

[trtl]

Ugh...totally uninterested in Bielema. Some success at Wisconsin, couldn't replicate in Arkansas (which is like Illinois, the red headed step child of their conference) so what makes us think he can do it here, and has bounced around to different jobs. Now a linebacker's coach for the worst team in the NFL? Also with some controversy that follows him around? I'm sorry, just not the mold of coach that I'm hoping for. BU had success at each and every level and is now successful with us. Not sure if I put much hope in Bielema and hope we don't make this hire.

I don’t have an opinion on Bielema, but “some success at Wisconsin”? Come on.

 

[Lake Camelot]

Arkansas and Illinois are more different than they are alike. Much less expectations to win here than there, much easier to win in the B1G west than the SEC. Win the west here and you are a game away from the rose bowl at least. He recruited at Wisky which has similar academic hurdles as here. Of all the candidates he would put together the best staff. He really isn't as brash or as bad as people make him out to be he is just honest and says what's on his mind.

And a sleezeball.Even just football wise I remember him running up the score on huge blowout games.

 

[Chief512]

I looked at Bielema’s records. His last year at Wisconsin they were 8-6. 3 straight losses in OT. 4 of the losses were by 3 points, 1 by 6 points and 1 by 7. At Arkansas was very similar, except for the fact they had a loaded schedule. For example, in 2016 they were 7-6. 3 of the wins - #15 TCU, #22 Ole Miss, #10 Florida. The 5 losses came to #10 Texas AM, # 16 Alabama, #21 Auburn, # 24 LSU, and # 18 Va Tech. What would that team’s record have been in the B10? I’ll take his record any day versus some of those being mentioned. The guy can coach. We are not hiring a Pope.

 

[altenberger22]

And a sleezeball.Even just football wise I remember him running up the score on huge blowout games.

Hoping he does this 8-9 times per season for us!

 

[spillini]

Josh hiring Bielema would torpedo his “integrity” criteria based on all the stories floating around and I hope he doesn’t do it.

 

[BZuppke]

I wonder if the anti-Bielema crowd here was also pro Mike Leach?

 

[CogDog]

Dave Clawson? That name was completely new to me. I’ll have to do some digging on him.

 

[TheDrinkinLincoln]

I wonder if the anti-Bielema crowd here was also pro Mike Leach?

Oh hell no, I wouldn't touch Leach and his crazy !!! antics for all the .500 seasons he can provide

 

[ILFaninFL]

10 top head coaching candidates still on the market

Has some names I hadn't heard yet. Number 3 is my pick.

Athlon has a list of who they think will replace Lovie
10 Coaching Candidates to Replace Lovie Smith

 

[ChicagoKid]

Bret would be a colossal failure. Most of his big recruits at Arkansas were due to Sam Pittman and his great recruiting efforts. Then Kirby Smart at Georgia hired him away and the recruiting dropped off a cliff. There is a reason Arkansas hired Sam Pittman to replace Chad Morris and it's almost 100 percent due to his recruiting ability.

Worse than Bret is his wife.

 

[illini80]

Dave Clawson? That name was completely new to me. I’ll have to do some digging on him.

Seems to have done a good, not spectacular job at Wake. Tough place to recruit to from what I’ve heard.