Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread (March 2021)

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#1,351      

Oranges

Oranges
Oranges
618to217 said:
Excited Oh Boy GIF
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Not sure what the shark is supposed to indicate
 
#1,352      

TheFameProtector

TheFameProtector
Champaign
TheFameProtector
sacraig said:
I think you are not giving the coaching staff enough credit for their ability to learn. I know we all have some (seemingly righteous) frustration at what looked like a lack of adjustment yesterday, especially on defense, but let's not forget that this staff completely overhauled their approach to offense to fit personnel. They failed early, learned a lot from that failure, then course corrected with major success.

Having said that, if he stays, why would you think the coaching staff would keep doing exactly what they were doing with him instead of helping him grow (and helping the team out along with him)? I can only imagine they'd work on his various weaknesses like passing and shooting, both to help the team and to help him succeed at the next level. It is far from guaranteed that he would learn these faster elsewhere.

TLDR: There is no reason to assume that the coaches won't work on exactly these things since it helps us and him, so it is silly to suggest he can only learn these by going pro now.
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Never said they won't work on them, question is whether that work in one year of college produces enough substantial improvement to entice NBA teams to use a draft pick -- particularly a first rounder -- to select Kofi. If that doesn't happen, then the work, within the context of the draft/getting paid, is not producing much tangible value to Kofi that might justify staying another year (assuming that the purpose of staying another year is draft stock improvement, which seems pretty reasonable to say).

As for the learning portion, I never suggested they don't learn and adjust well (I think -- barring yesterday -- they've done a fantastic job over the last couple years), at least as a whole entity applied within a team concept. But how much of that applies within narrower contexts to individual players and the things they need to improve/show to get drafted? For instance, much of these exact same nitpicks with Kofi (relative to the draft) existed in his game last year. Did we see him shooting jump shots this year? In some respects, the incentives align, but in others there is a mismatch. BU might not want Kofi shooting short jumpers at a 30% clip b/c it means fewer of his 65% effective looks at the rim, but Kofi has an incentive to shoot those to develop the skill and (ideally) showcase improvement. In this context, there is absolutely reason to believe he might progress more rapidly at a given skill -- shooting, let's say -- in an environment where the entire value of play is based on individual improvement (like the G league) rather than team success (like college). This is not to even mention the time efficiencies gained by focusing solely on one pursuit.
 
#1,353      

WeWillWhen

WeWillWhen
WeWillWhen
TheFameProtector said:
Most importantly, he needs to become an elite shot-blocker; without that skill for him to hang his hat on, I suspect it will be difficult to ever crack the first round.
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This. The other problem for Kofi's future is that, from what I can see, it appears that Euroleague teams are looking for the same characteristics in a center as is the NBA.

But one wonders . . . with so many mobile but lighter-stature players populating the 5 position these days, might one team go contrarian and bring in a BANGA to cause match-up problems necessitating a double-team, thus freeing up shooters? Kofi will need to demonstrate passing ability to fill that role.
 
#1,355      

Emerson Bigguns

Emerson Bigguns
Emerson Bigguns
logjam said:
Maybe I'm on the wrong thread....... but Boakye is supposedly closer to making a decision. Go get em BU.
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I think our chances of landing him drastically change if we have a 2nd team All-American returning at the 5. While the Kofi prognostication may not fit exactly in this thread, his decision will greatly impact the strategy in the recruiting/transfer market.

If the big man moves on, Boakye would beat the heck out of any other options that I'm aware of.
 
#1,357      

bluemountain

B
bluemountain
sacraig said:
I think you are not giving the coaching staff enough credit for their ability to learn. I know we all have some (seemingly righteous) frustration at what looked like a lack of adjustment yesterday, especially on defense, but let's not forget that this staff completely overhauled their approach to offense to fit personnel. They failed early, learned a lot from that failure, then course corrected with major success.

Having said that, if he stays, why would you think the coaching staff would keep doing exactly what they were doing with him instead of helping him grow (and helping the team out along with him)? I can only imagine they'd work on his various weaknesses like passing and shooting, both to help the team and to help him succeed at the next level. It is far from guaranteed that he would learn these faster elsewhere.

TLDR: There is no reason to assume that the coaches won't work on exactly these things since it helps us and him, so it is silly to suggest he can only learn these by going pro now.
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Because the coaching staff has to win and they have limited time to work with Kofi to develop some of these other skills. If he goes pro he can concentrate on his game 8 hours/day every day. Physically he is a unicorn - there just aren't many like him. If he can learn to pass out of the low post, shoot 70% FT's and be a threat to score from 10 feet in he will play a long time in the NBA, even if he is just a role player. The question is whether he can develop those schools best while in college or professionally.
 
#1,358      

BetaSigIllini

B
BetaSigIllini
bluemountain said:
Because the coaching staff has to win and they have limited time to work with Kofi to develop some of these other skills. If he goes pro he can concentrate on his game 8 hours/day every day. Physically he is a unicorn - there just aren't many like him. If he can learn to pass out of the low post, shoot 70% FT's and be a threat to score from 10 feet in he will play a long time in the NBA, even if he is just a role player. The question is whether he can develop those schools best while in college or professionally.
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I agree with much of what you say, but you may be missing Kofi's biggest need of improvment for a pro future: he needs to be able to play defense some place farther than 8 -10 feet from the hoop. Perimeter defense may be his biggest key to making pro money.
 
#1,359      

bluemountain

B
bluemountain
BetaSigIllini said:
I agree with much of what you say, but you may be missing Kofi's biggest need of improvment for a pro future: he needs to be able to play defense some place farther than 8 -10 feet from the hoop. Perimeter defense may be his biggest key to making pro money.
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Great point
 
#1,360      

Champaign Toast

C
Fan since Kiwane Garris
Champaign Toast
Re: Kofi and the NBA... I think Andre Drummond is a reasonable NBA comparison for Kofi Cockburn, and teams are interested in Drummond despite areas for improvement (or call them limitations) that are similar to Kofi's, like ability to defend the perimeter. Maybe not every NBA team wants Drummond on their squad, but he's getting paid $28m+ on his current contract. I wonder what Drummond will get on his next free agent deal, and if Cockburn might have the same level of success in the NBA.
 
#1,361      

Champaign88

C
Champaign88
BetaSigIllini said:
I agree with much of what you say, but you may be missing Kofi's biggest need of improvment for a pro future: he needs to be able to play defense some place farther than 8 -10 feet from the hoop. Perimeter defense may be his biggest key to making pro money.
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Completely agree. He doesn't do what the NBA wants on either side of the floor. His offense may be passable, but he will get ran off the floor on the defensive side if he can't hedge on screens and at least provide some resistance as far as staying in front of players on defense. A team like the Lakers that won the championship last year, had Dwight Howard and Javale McGee as the centers. Neither of them are particularly good defensively at anything other than scoring close to the hoop, and I think Kofi could get to their level offensively (not prime Dwight Howard, but current DH), where he can sort of shoot from 12 feet or so and finish around the rim. However, the biggest issue is whether he can play defense. Is the reason that he rarely leaves the paint on D simply the scheme that we play where we want to keep him out of foul trouble, keep him in the paint where he is most valuable as a rim protector, etc., or is it because he will get burned far too often by college guards if he were to hedge on screens and occasionally switch?

The NBA has evolved to the point where the weakest pick and roll defender is usually the player that defends the screener, so as soon as he comes in the game, Kofi would be a target that the other team would try to exploit. I think he needs to get quicker defensively to stay on the court.
 
#1,362      

TCTORNADO

TCTORNADO
TCTORNADO
alexander58 said:
Perhaps an insider can shed light on the chances of Liddell transferring to Illinois, but I get the impression there is something personal between Liddell and Illinois players going back to Mark Smith. Anyone?
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People don't realize how dark that Mark Smith situation was or had the potential to be. Josh did a great job in making that thing go away.
 
#1,367      

logjam

logjam
logjam
bluemountain said:
Because the coaching staff has to win and they have limited time to work with Kofi to develop some of these other skills. If he goes pro he can concentrate on his game 8 hours/day every day. Physically he is a unicorn - there just aren't many like him. If he can learn to pass out of the low post, shoot 70% FT's and be a threat to score from 10 feet in he will play a long time in the NBA, even if he is just a role player. The question is whether he can develop those schools best while in college or professionally.
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Get that logic outta here! Kofi come back!
 
#1,370      

illiniguy

illiniguy
illiniguy
sacraig said:
Seems like a major stretch. For one, let's not pretend that this phenomenon is limited to Ohio State fans on social media. I have no doubt that there are plenty of Illinois "fan" keyboard warriors willing to say similarly malicious things behind the anonymity of Twitter. Ditto any other fan base with a decent number of people. It's just the horrible nature of social media.

Even if the above were not true, transferring wouldn't somehow remove those crazies from his timeline. He'd be better off just deleting his social media accounts. We all would, really.
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If Liddell were to transfer to Illinois there would be even more Ohio State fans trashing him on Twitter. Remember when LeBron left Cleveland the first time?
 
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#1,371      

GalloppingGost

G
GalloppingGost
TheFameProtector said:
Kofi is a pickle. Can't figure out what makes the most sense for him and there's a lot of optionality in terms of what would make him appealing to the NBA, but also a lot of doubt (on my part) as to whether he can meet any of those criteria. If he had 4 more inches on his vertical and/or wingspan, I'd see him getting drafted in the 1st this year, but that's out of the picture. If he were a good passer that you could run some offense through -- Krutwig-like -- then I think that'd be enough (in combination with his physicality/rebounding) to get drafted, but given where he's at, I don't see another year in college producing some miraculous jump in passing ability. If he had more range on his jumper and shooting skill, that might be enough to overcome other limitations, but given his FT regression and the general difficulty of shooting with bulk and huge hands, I don't see a huge jump happening there either. If he could switch on the perimeter and guard smaller players, maybe that would help, but I'd be surprised if he can improve his agility enough to get there (it's already pretty amazing what he is capable of doing -- soccer tricks included -- at his size and that still isn't enough).

If he stays, there's the very real possibility that he (and the coaching staff) continues to rely on his otherworldly physical gifts and continues to dominate in the ways he has, which would be great for us and for college accolades but not so much for getting drafted. If he goes this year, then perhaps he's forced to learn those skills at a faster clip b/c it's learn or bust; but, if he goes, the likelihood he's actually drafted seems pretty low. Of course, it only takes one team, but there *appears* to be a good chance he ends up undrafted and has to latch on to a team following the Kendrick Nunn route. That, of course, ends up working out for a decent number of guys and isn't thaaattt different than going in the late second round, but that is taking on a lot of uncertainty for someone as talented and with as much exposure as Kofi.

It seems like it comes down to whether Kofi would rather very likely get paid a G League-level (or best case 2nd round-level, which is nothing to sneeze at) salary to learn NBA ways from NBA guys vs. be the face of IL and hopefully improve his stock. If he does the latter, I think it has to be accompanied by a commitment from BU to use him in more unique ways, run tons of P&R with Belo, and allow him to shoot a couple short jumpers a game, even if he's hitting them at a low rate. Most importantly, he needs to become an elite shot-blocker; without that skill for him to hang his hat on, I suspect it will be difficult to ever crack the first round.

This is all pure conjecture/pontification and is all through the lens of getting drafted and getting paid, so take it FWIW. Either way, it's a weird time to be an absolute beast of a human that can dominate basketball games at every level except the very pinnacle; it's unfortunate that the path forward for that player -- a guy we all love -- isn't clearer.
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Wow that was a mouthful of back and forth logic.
Let’s not forget the kid almost averaged a double double in the toughest big conference in the country. Also he is doing what is asked of him at an elite level. In my opinion he needs more time to develop. He has only played the game for five or six years. I think he will be used differently if he stays. The nba has guys his size that can shoot from all over the floor so a better range will help. Shot blocking wasn’t bad without having the stats in front of me. Free throw is a must to improve. He is a big guy. His footwork is pretty good but there is room for improvement all across the board. In college he will get much more individual attention than any other route. He gets a degree as well. He is part of a unique family at Illinois and will be for life, especially if they make a deep run next year. I agree it’s doubtful he is a first round pick right now. With another year he could easily be a lottery pick. Selfishly, I hope he stays. Many of these kids should. I understand the money is tempting but the next level is a business with no guarantees. The money will be there and it could be guaranteed money in another year. He could and should be a first team all American next year. And then a lottery pick. If I was consulting him that would be my advice. It worked very well for Ayo. It should for Kofi even though they are completely different players.
 
#1,372      

illiniguy24

illiniguy24
illiniguy24
Navy_illini said:
How much money do you think a player like Frazier or Williams could make overseas? I don’t think another year is going change the level of league they can play for.

I think for Kofi he needs to get a honest assessment of where he stand in the draft. I think if he adds a mid range shot and develops his defense on the perimeter he is a first round draft pick next year. The salary difference between being drafted first round or second is not small and is worth a year. With Kofi not playing basketball his whole life I think he will only get better at Illinois. He has a tough decision to make but he would be the face of this team and the Big Ten.

I think Underwood and the staff have a good feeling where the guys are leaning with their decisions. The change in transfer rules will be interesting to see who we lose and who we can get
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Six figures in the right league. Players in the top euro leagues make millions. Trent could easily make well into six figures if he establishes himself in a league
 
#1,373      

Oldskoolkoach

O
Oldskoolkoach
illiniguy24 said:
Six figures in the right league. Players in the top euro leagues make millions. Trent could easily make well into six figures if he establishes himself in a league
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And I hope he does. Trent did a lot for our program. Sacrificed A LOT. I hope he gets every penny he can and so do the others that have done so much to make our dark times enjoyable again. Although this too feels like a dark time, we shall be ok.
 
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