skyIdub
Winged Warrior
We aren't done....
We aren't done....
Alright I guess we're doing this. First off, you can't just rely on 247 rankings and take them as gospel. Rivals was the superior service 10 years ago and had guys like DJ and BP3 rated way more highly than 247 does, for whatever reason. Far better to use RSCI since it is a more stable consensus rating over time.
There are a lot of us "old dogs" out here.Isn't that discriminatory against old dogs?
Mitchell’s ask was for the wolf to be on staffYes and if AceWolf wants to come back, he is a walk on, just like Frans boys at Iowa
Well saidAlright I guess we're doing this. First off, you can't just rely on 247 rankings and take them as gospel. Rivals was the superior service 10 years ago and had guys like DJ and BP3 rated way more highly than 247 does, for whatever reason. Far better to use RSCI since it is a more stable consensus rating over time.
Our 2021 team had 4 guys in the RSCI top 100, all above 50. In every year from 2011-2017 we had at least 4 guys in the RSCI top 100 (many below 50, however). But given that you want to focus on who in those classes was "best", let's highlight two years in particular and compare the rankings to 2021:
2011 = RSCI #24, 29, 35, 49, 65, 76
2012 = RSCI #29, 35, 49, 65, 66, 69, 76, 78
2021 = RSCI #29, 32, 43, 45
Based on individual recruiting rankings it is not at all the case that Underwood has brought in (and accumulated on individual teams) more talent than Weber did during those years. But those teams did not reach similar levels of success b/c the fit was really poor, the talent evaluation was also not as good and didn't appear to include the mental/competitive side in this eval (hence greater attrition), and players did not consistently improve year-in and year-out. Of course you need talent and of course this year's team had some top-end talent, but you also have to be able to fit those pieces together well and get them to function well within a system, and also have glue guys (Giorgi, DMW, Grandy) that make it all work. Most importantly, you need to be able to identify and differentiate between the Brian Cardwells (RSCI 49) and JCLs (38) vs. the Ayos (32) and Kofis (43). There is a reason this team had the most talent since 2005, and that is b/c the BU regime has shown it is far more capable at the above than the prior two regimes.
We aren't done....
When and who? Monte I get it now.
Im guessing the gif may tell us what we need to know?When and who?
Damontes back?
My grandfather saw every game Paris played so I am certain he did as I believe the Tigers played Taylorville on the way to the 47 title. But, as my moniker hints, that was the year I was born. Paris had some great battles with Taylorville, Champaign, and Centralia back in the day but before my time. My brother was born in 43 when Paris won their first state title....and Ernie Eveland always asked my Mom and Dad... whenever he saw them...if they were planning on having any more kids!!I know you go back a ways 47. Any chance you remember that '44 team at Taylorville led by our very own Johnny Orr? Arguably the best team to ever lace em up in Illinois. Won a state championship with an unblemished record of 47-0 (I think).
This speaks to the culture.Don't forget....I also helped! I called him the "Polish Pod!"
Ayo’s class also had Giorgi and Samba Kane, no?I was just about to post the same. Looks like they bumped us up.
According to 247 our recruiting rankings with Underwood:
2017: 30 (Mark Smith, Trent Frazier both 4 stars,
2018: 25 (Ayo, Tevian Jones both 4 stars)
2019: 69 (Kofi 4 stars)
2020: 16 (Miller, Curbelo both 4 stars)
2021: 27 (Good and Melendez 4 stars, Podz 3 stars! WTF?)
I do question 247's value. I was surprised to see how many years 247 considered Bruce Weber's recruiting to be top 25, which differs from my recollection. Perhaps the difference is Underwood seems to do a great job of landing 4 star recruits who play above their rankings and are impactful (Ayo, Kofi, Curbelo, Miller).
2011 was a team that had more talent,Ayo is the 2nd highest rated recruit that Illinois has had since 2003, according to 247. Adam Miller is the 4th best, Curbelo is the 8th best and Kofi is the 9th best. Recruiting class rankings don't tell the whole story. This team had the most pure talent of any Illini team since 2005 and it's not even close.
Underwood's first class had 7 kids and only 3 are going to end their careers with the Illini (Ayo, Giorgi, and Feliz). His 2nd class had Kofi, BBV, Hamlin, and Kouma.
So out of 11 kids in his first two classes, 4 are going to finish their careers with Illinois. I have no idea what the national average is, but that doesn't scream special to me.
Ayo’s class also had Giorgi and Samba Kane, no?
And griffinAyo’s class also had Giorgi and Samba Kane, no?
Im guessing the gif may tell us what we need to know?
Monte never left!Damontes back?
Alright I guess we're doing this. First off, you can't just rely on 247 rankings and take them as gospel. Rivals was the superior service 10 years ago and had guys like DJ and BP3 rated way more highly than 247 does, for whatever reason. Far better to use RSCI since it is a more stable consensus rating over time.
Our 2021 team had 4 guys in the RSCI top 100, all above 50. In every year from 2011-2017 we had at least 4 guys in the RSCI top 100 (many below 50, however). But given that you want to focus on who in those classes was "best", let's highlight two years in particular and compare the rankings to 2021:
2011 = RSCI #24, 29, 35, 49, 65, 76
2012 = RSCI #29, 35, 49, 65, 66, 69, 76, 78
2021 = RSCI #29, 32, 43, 45
Based on individual recruiting rankings it is not at all the case that Underwood has brought in (and accumulated on individual teams) more talent than Weber did during those years. But those teams did not reach similar levels of success b/c the fit was really poor, the talent evaluation was also not as good and didn't appear to include the mental/competitive side in this eval (hence greater attrition), and players did not consistently improve year-in and year-out. Of course you need talent and of course this year's team had some top-end talent, but you also have to be able to fit those pieces together well and get them to function well within a system, and also have glue guys (Giorgi, DMW, Grandy) that make it all work. Most importantly, you need to be able to identify and differentiate between the Brian Cardwells (RSCI 49) and JCLs (38) vs. the Ayos (32) and Kofis (43). There is a reason this team had the most talent since 2005, and that is b/c the BU regime has shown it is far more capable at the above than the prior two regimes.
No, the difference is the four stars that Brad got were guys that other major programs wanted and were rising. Where as the Stan Simpson and Crandall Heads of the time were being recruited by mid majors and plummeting in the rankings. But whatever story you’d like to tell.Yep, we are doing this.
You literally replied to a post that cited 247 team recruiting rankings.
Tevian Jones, Alan Griffin, Samba Kane, Anthony Higgs, BBV, Hamlin, Kouma, Lieb. That's literally 7 players who will contribute almost 0 on the floor to Illinois basketball. And 1 who was a minor contributor for 1 year. That's A LOT of whiffs in 3 years.
Man, Underwood's talent evaluation record is just spotless.
The difference, so far, between Underwood and Weber's recruiting is that Ayo and Kofi became Ayo and Kofi and not Richmond and Leonard 2.0, as college players. We'll see what happens from here.
Obviously. Thing is, one man's 3 star is another's 4 star. And vice versa. I trust our staff's talent evaluation far more than the rating services, especially with kids outside the top 50. Covid has made evaluation even more difficult. Evaluation isn't science, it's a subjective art.I think so. I just listed the 4 star recruits, and Podz for 2021. The idea being ratings, rather than potential. Not every 4 star recruit lives up to their ranking, but I would rather Underwood land 4's rather than 3's. But that's just me.
Ehh, this fails to acknowledge that some of these players were recruited last minute out of desperation.Yep, we are doing this.
You literally replied to a post that cited 247 team recruiting rankings.
Tevian Jones, Alan Griffin, Samba Kane, Anthony Higgs, BBV, Hamlin, Kouma, Lieb. That's literally 7 players who will contribute almost 0 on the floor to Illinois basketball. And 1 who was a minor contributor for 1 year. That's A LOT of whiffs in 3 years.
Man, Underwood's talent evaluation record is just spotless.
The difference, so far, between Underwood and Weber's recruiting is that Ayo and Kofi became Ayo and Kofi and not Richmond and Leonard 2.0, as college players. We'll see what happens from here.
2011 was a team that had more talent,
imo.
Jereme and Meyers were both 5 star kids in some services.
Dmac, Paul, Richardson, and Head were all 4 stars.
plus some guys that over played their rankings in Tisdale and Davis.
Bruce not being able to do more with that roster is one of the real tragedies of Illinois basketball. He was either too stubborn or incapable of change.
Another transfer, a HS recruit, or Monte coming back?We aren't done....
Alright I guess we're doing this. First off, you can't just rely on 247 rankings and take them as gospel. Rivals was the superior service 10 years ago and had guys like DJ and BP3 rated way more highly than 247 does, for whatever reason. Far better to use RSCI since it is a more stable consensus rating over time.
Our 2021 team had 4 guys in the RSCI top 100, all above 50. In every year from 2011-2017 we had at least 4 guys in the RSCI top 100 (many below 50, however). But given that you want to focus on who in those classes was "best", let's highlight two years in particular and compare the rankings to 2021:
2011 = RSCI #24, 29, 35, 49, 65, 76
2012 = RSCI #29, 35, 49, 65, 66, 69, 76, 78
2021 = RSCI #29, 32, 43, 45
Based on individual recruiting rankings it is not at all the case that Underwood has brought in (and accumulated on individual teams) more talent than Weber did during those years. But those teams did not reach similar levels of success b/c the fit was really poor, the talent evaluation was also not as good and didn't appear to include the mental/competitive side in this eval (hence greater attrition), and players did not consistently improve year-in and year-out. Of course you need talent and of course this year's team had some top-end talent, but you also have to be able to fit those pieces together well and get them to function well within a system, and also have glue guys (Giorgi, DMW, Grandy) that make it all work. Most importantly, you need to be able to identify and differentiate between the Brian Cardwells (RSCI 49) and JCLs (38) vs. the Ayos (32) and Kofis (43). There is a reason this team had the most talent since 2005, and that is b/c the BU regime has shown it is far more capable at the above than the prior two regimes.
I love how you use literally like it’s going out of style.We literally had 2 All-Americans this year. Both of whom started or turned 21 this season.
Basketball is a game of stars, even at the college level.