skyIdub
Winged Warrior
We aren't done....
Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread (Week of April 12th, 2021)
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TheFameProtector
- Champaign
Alright I guess we're doing this. First off, you can't just rely on 247 rankings and take them as gospel. Rivals was the superior service 10 years ago and had guys like DJ and BP3 rated way more highly than 247 does, for whatever reason. Far better to use RSCI since it is a more stable consensus rating over time.
Our 2021 team had 4 guys in the RSCI top 100, all above 50. In every year from 2011-2017 we had at least 4 guys in the RSCI top 100 (many below 50, however). But given that you want to focus on who in those classes was "best", let's highlight two years in particular and compare the rankings to 2021:
2011 = RSCI #24, 29, 35, 49, 65, 76
2012 = RSCI #29, 35, 49, 65, 66, 69, 76, 78
2021 = RSCI #29, 32, 43, 45
Based on individual recruiting rankings it is not at all the case that Underwood has brought in (and accumulated on individual teams) more talent than Weber did during those years. But those teams did not reach similar levels of success b/c the fit was really poor, the talent evaluation was also not as good and didn't appear to include the mental/competitive side in this eval (hence greater attrition), and players did not consistently improve year-in and year-out. Of course you need talent and of course this year's team had some top-end talent, but you also have to be able to fit those pieces together well and get them to function well within a system, and also have glue guys (Giorgi, DMW, Grandy) that make it all work. Most importantly, you need to be able to identify and differentiate between the Brian Cardwells (RSCI 49) and JCLs (38) vs. the Ayos (32) and Kofis (43). There is a reason this team had the most talent since 2005, and that is b/c the BU regime has shown it is far more capable at the above than the prior two regimes.
There are a lot of us "old dogs" out here.Isn't that discriminatory against old dogs?
Mitchell’s ask was for the wolf to be on staff
We aren't done....
When and who? Monte I get it now.
Im guessing the gif may tell us what we need to know?
Damontes back?
My grandfather saw every game Paris played so I am certain he did as I believe the Tigers played Taylorville on the way to the 47 title. But, as my moniker hints, that was the year I was born. Paris had some great battles with Taylorville, Champaign, and Centralia back in the day but before my time. My brother was born in 43 when Paris won their first state title....and Ernie Eveland always asked my Mom and Dad... whenever he saw them...if they were planning on having any more kids!!
By the way, few, if any, here likely know, but Ernie was also the Tigers' cross country coach and coached the Tigers to the first 3 (maybe 4) state titles ever held in Illinois in that sport. A legend indeed.
Ernie left Paris a couple of years before I got to high school. However, I was coached by two coaches who came from legendary coaching trees. Rich Maack played for Virgil Fletcher at Collinsville. Our primary man offense was named "Kahok". He left after my soph. season and was replaced by Bret Brown who played for Ernie Eveland, and will always be fondly remembered for what he did for me.
This speaks to the culture.
Ayo’s class also had Giorgi and Samba Kane, no?
2011 was a team that had more talent,
imo.
Jereme and Meyers were both 5 star kids in some services.
Dmac, Paul, Richardson, and Head were all 4 stars.
plus some guys that over played their rankings in Tisdale and Davis.
Bruce not being able to do more with that roster is one of the real tragedies of Illinois basketball. He was either too stubborn or incapable of change.
JW
- Vancouver
I think so. I just listed the 4 star recruits, and Podz for 2021. The idea being ratings, rather than potential. Not every 4 star recruit lives up to their ranking, but I would rather Underwood land 4's rather than 3's. But that's just me.
And griffin
Yep, we are doing this.
You literally replied to a post that cited 247 team recruiting rankings.
Tevian Jones, Alan Griffin, Samba Kane, Anthony Higgs, BBV, Hamlin, Kouma, Lieb. That's literally 7 players who will contribute almost 0 on the floor to Illinois basketball. And 1 who was a minor contributor for 1 year. That's A LOT of whiffs in 3 years.
Man, Underwood's talent evaluation record is just spotless.
The difference, so far, between Underwood and Weber's recruiting is that Ayo and Kofi became Ayo and Kofi and not Richmond and Leonard 2.0, as college players. We'll see what happens from here.
No, the difference is the four stars that Brad got were guys that other major programs wanted and were rising. Where as the Stan Simpson and Crandall Heads of the time were being recruited by mid majors and plummeting in the rankings. But whatever story you’d like to tell.Yep, we are doing this.
You literally replied to a post that cited 247 team recruiting rankings.
Tevian Jones, Alan Griffin, Samba Kane, Anthony Higgs, BBV, Hamlin, Kouma, Lieb. That's literally 7 players who will contribute almost 0 on the floor to Illinois basketball. And 1 who was a minor contributor for 1 year. That's A LOT of whiffs in 3 years.
Man, Underwood's talent evaluation record is just spotless.
The difference, so far, between Underwood and Weber's recruiting is that Ayo and Kofi became Ayo and Kofi and not Richmond and Leonard 2.0, as college players. We'll see what happens from here.
Joel Goodson
- respect my decision™
Obviously. Thing is, one man's 3 star is another's 4 star. And vice versa. I trust our staff's talent evaluation far more than the rating services, especially with kids outside the top 50. Covid has made evaluation even more difficult. Evaluation isn't science, it's a subjective art.
Ehh, this fails to acknowledge that some of these players were recruited last minute out of desperation.Yep, we are doing this.
You literally replied to a post that cited 247 team recruiting rankings.
Tevian Jones, Alan Griffin, Samba Kane, Anthony Higgs, BBV, Hamlin, Kouma, Lieb. That's literally 7 players who will contribute almost 0 on the floor to Illinois basketball. And 1 who was a minor contributor for 1 year. That's A LOT of whiffs in 3 years.
Man, Underwood's talent evaluation record is just spotless.
The difference, so far, between Underwood and Weber's recruiting is that Ayo and Kofi became Ayo and Kofi and not Richmond and Leonard 2.0, as college players. We'll see what happens from here.
Samba Kane, Anthony Higgs, and Kouma. All recruited at the very last second. Also I don't know how you can count Kouma when he didn't even end up on campus
Hamlin and Lieb are both projects, which are always going to be hit or miss. The verdict isn't out on Lieb yet. He's got plenty of time to show us something. Also, Alan Griffin average 9ppg off the bench his last year in Orange & Blue. Minor contribution?
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We literally had 2 All-Americans this year. Both of whom started or turned 21 this season.
Basketball is a game of stars, even at the college level.
Another transfer, a HS recruit, or Monte coming back?We aren't done....
JW
- Vancouver
There were some years that Weber objectively put together very decent classes. And as much as I liked the man, and have a soft spot for him because of 2005, he made so many mistakes that he could never save himself.
For example, his class of 2005, the Fall after our amazing run, he only landed Jamar Smith and Chester Frazier and a Charles Jackson (I have no recollection of him), with a rank of 258. In 2006 he only landed Brian Carlwell (who might have been better but for the car accident with Jamar Smith) and Richard Semrau, with a rank of 54. For a team that went to the Sweet 16 in 2004, and the championship game in 2005, that type of recruiting was an enormous problem. That kind of recruiting was not going to replace losing Dee and Augustine, let alone Deron Williams or Luther Head calibre players.
And when he did start to land players like McCamey, Griffey, Richardson, Paul and Bertrand, because of the bad years previously (think 2008, Stan Simpson and nothing higher than a 3 star), the team was always disjointed and missing key parts.
Anyway, Underwood has been the answer to our prayers. He's bringing in balanced teams, good players, and his players improve every year. I can't imagine what the future holds for Curbelo. In fact I'm genuinely curious to see how Grandison does as a senior, I think he could be a hugely impactful player.
I love how you use literally like it’s going out of style.
had Bruce actually played Meyers he would have literally been an all American by year two. But, coach Keady said that freshman sit.
Richmond was super talented. had he played three years he would have most likely had a great career as well.
Literally, we can all do that, the point is that team had talent that Weber refused to develop. And that’s why he’s gone now.
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