Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread

[BashCtIllini]

I read the chatter regarding Belo and the fallacy that he can’t shoot. I’m so tired of seeing that.
We can all agree, I believe, that he wasn’t himself in most of the games he played thus far this year due to injury.
I believe the consensus is that he concussed in pre-season and played without accurately being diagnosed with post-concussion symptoms that have kept him out for two months now. Obviously, the severity of the injury was much more complex or severe than originally diagnosed. Likely, we can all agree on that.
So we really have just his freshman year to judge or asses his shooting ability.
I would suggest that most people that present the opinion that he is not a shooter, do not realize his shooting percentage as a freshman was .498 (109/219). That includes his poor 3 point shooting of .161 (5/31)
All indications are that he dramatically improved his 3 point shooting in the freshman to sophomore jump.
Unfortunately, due to the injury, we don’t quite know that.
But shooting 50% overall as a freshman most certainly doesn’t lead me down the path of “he can’t shoot”.
I will take Belo and his freshman skills and shooting for the next 2 or 3 years all day, every day.
Let the development of his three point shot come as it will.
But enough already that he can’t shoot.

You do realize most of his shots were layups or within 6 feet right? The wizardy of Curbelo was how he could dribble around and next thing you know he's making an open layup. I guess you could make an argument, so many of his shots were layups or floaters, or little fall away 4 footers, maybe we don't know how well he shoots. But that very poor 3 pt % is not a good indicator.

You can see the shot charts for individual players for many games on ESPN, and Curbelo's points came overwhelmingly from the paint. It's ok for our players to have weaknesses. Hopefully with his injury he's still able to shoot and can work on that shot, because a Curbelo that shoots 35% from 3 is a stud.

 

[GBIllini]

You do realize most of his shots were layups or within 6 feet right? The wizardy of Curbelo was how he could dribble around and next thing you know he's making an open layup. I guess you could make an argument, so many of his shots were layups or floaters, or little fall away 4 footers, maybe we don't know how well he shoots. But that very poor 3 pt % is not a good indicator.

You can see the shot charts for individual players for many games on ESPN, and Curbelo's points came overwhelmingly from the paint. It's ok for our players to have weaknesses. Hopefully with his injury he's still able to shoot and can work on that shot, because a Curbelo that shoots 35% from 3 is a stud.

Three's not so good yet, but he has a good midrange, not just 4 footers and layups.

 

[HailtotheChief]

He has everything you look for in a modern NBA 4. He just needs experience, confidence, and maybe a little more creativity with the ball in his hands. He can beat his man in so many different ways but it's almost like he just doesn't have a good feel yet for what the right move is. I think he'll get there next year.

I just hope Coleman keeps getting better and be a quality, consistent starter. As for having "everything you look for" that is just not true. If he did he would be on draft boards now. He isn't a very fluid, high flying athlete like Arron Gordon or Anthony Davis. Nor is his outside shot were it needs to be. He can still develop into a starting player and possibly could develop into an all B10 if he can knock down threes, get stronger and limit mistakes.

 

[21ChampaignSt]

I just hope Coleman keeps getting better and be a quality, consistent starter. As for having "everything you look for" that is just not true. If he did he would be on draft boards now. He isn't a very fluid, high flying athlete like Arron Gordon or Anthony Davis. Nor is his outside shot were it needs to be. He is still a starting player and possibly could develop into an all B10 if he can knock down threes, get stronger and limit mistakes.

He has the unteachable attributes: Size, length, athleticism, versatility.

Is he "NBA ready" right now? Of course not. Is he a lock to make the NBA someday? Also no. But I dont need to squint very hard to see NBA potential.

 

[HailtotheChief]

He has the unteachable attributes: Size, length, athleticism, versatility.

Is he "NBA ready" right now? Of course not. Is he a lock to make the NBA someday? Also no. But I dont need to squint very hard to see NBA potential.

He for sure has some of the traits needed. He doesn't have "everything". He moves well for his size and has solid handles. Primarily I feel he isn't as fluid someone like Keegan Murray or others. I feel its based and wearing orange tinted glasses to say that he does. I think you likely can see the difference too if your not being biased. Coleman does have a lot to offer for sure. I hope he can improve in practice, gains confidence but also plays to his strengths. There will be a lot of very good players in the B10 next year. Coleman will hopefully keep getting better and be one of them and Keegan Murray , Trace Jackson Davis and EJ Liddell will be gone.

 

[ElGran]

I just hope Coleman keeps getting better and be a quality, consistent starter. As for having "everything you look for" that is just not true. If he did he would be on draft boards now. He isn't a very fluid, high flying athlete like Arron Gordon or Anthony Davis. Nor is his outside shot were it needs to be. He can still develop into a starting player and possibly could develop into an all B10 if he can knock down threes, get stronger and limit mistakes.

I think he is quite fluid. Though he's not an explosive leaper like the guys you mention. He needs to take about 30,000 jump shots this offseason. A good "4" needs these be able to shoot from the outside these days. And he needs to continue to get stronger. And learn how to defend w/o fouling so much.

 

[HailtotheChief]

I think he is quite fluid. Though he's not an explosive leaper like the guys you mention. He needs to take about 30,000 jump shots this offseason. A good "4" needs these be able to shoot from the outside these days. And he needs to continue to get stronger. And learn how to defend w/o fouling so much.

He certainly moves well but not nearly as smooth as someone like Keegan Murray,Cade Cunningham or others. I think we as Illini fans often are biased and I wonder if our opponents see things in our guys we may?
When Coleman dribbles and moves he reminds me very much of Brian Cook. Coleman just makes a few more mistakes and can't shoot like that yet. Coleman has good handles for his size and his body almost is bouncing with the ball when he dribbles. Much like Cook did. Going one on one shaking off players, creating his own shot like very fluid players do just isn't his thing. He does move well though and can let Belo do that and get him shots. I hope he can become close to the type of shooter and player Cook was. When he moves and possesses the ball thats who he reminds me of. He certainly moves well and has a lot of potential.

 

[Ghost77]

You do realize most of his shots were layups or within 6 feet right? The wizardy of Curbelo was how he could dribble around and next thing you know he's making an open layup. I guess you could make an argument, so many of his shots were layups or floaters, or little fall away 4 footers, maybe we don't know how well he shoots. But that very poor 3 pt % is not a good indicator.

You can see the shot charts for individual players for many games on ESPN, and Curbelo's points came overwhelmingly from the paint. It's ok for our players to have weaknesses. Hopefully with his injury he's still able to shoot and can work on that shot, because a Curbelo that shoots 35% from 3 is a stud.y

I think this is spot on. As I mentioned, Curbelo’s offense was gravy last year because we didn’t need to rely on it but this year and coming years we will need to rely on it. He’s also much more heavily scouted and prepared for so he will need to refine his game to meet and exceed that challenge.

With his offense, Curbelo benefits greatly from Kofis presence and capable big men which gives him an advantage in the paint. If he can’t hit the 3 then his mid range and layup game must continue to be explosive for us to be elite and I guarantee you there is much more pressure on the young man than ever before to do all that. I hope he kills it and think that he can get there but that doesn’t mean he has nothing to prove.

 

[BashCtIllini]

I think this is spot on. As I mentioned, Curbelo’s offense was gravy last year because we didn’t need to rely on it but this year and coming years we will need to rely on it. He’s also much more heavily scouted and prepared for so he will need to refine his game to meet and exceed that challenge.

With his offense, Curbelo benefits greatly from Kofis presence and capable big men which gives him an advantage in the paint. If he can’t hit the 3 then his mid range and layup game must continue to be explosive for us to be elite and I guarantee you there is much more pressure on the young man than ever before to do all that. I hope he kills it and think that he can get there but that doesn’t mean he has nothing to prove.

My complaint against Curbelo this season was I felt he was playing selfishly, dribbling the air out of the ball looking for his shot. We dont need him to score 10+points a game ever. His strength is breaking down the defense. Using that to get a teammate a good look is just as valuable as getting yourself a good look.

Our offense took off when Curbelo sat because we had much better ball movement. Hopefully he sees that and realizes his scoring will always be gravy. break down the defense and distribute. I'd rather his goal be 10 apg than 10 ppg. I'd get him to model himself after TJ Ford.

 

[sacraig]

My complaint against Curbelo this season was I felt he was playing selfishly, dribbling the air out of the ball looking for his shot. We dont need him to score 10+points a game ever. His strength is breaking down the defense. Using that to get a teammate a good look is just as valuable as getting yourself a good look.

Our offense took off when Curbelo sat because we had much better ball movement. Hopefully he sees that and realizes his scoring will always be gravy. break down the defense and distribute. I'd rather his goal be 10 apg than 10 ppg. I'd get him to model himself after TJ Ford.

He had a head injury so it's hard to judge whether this would have been a problem otherwise. And I'd argue that if we aren't aiming for him to score 10+ points per game, we are aiming too low. He can be all of the things you say and still score at a high rate. Lest we forget, he is really good. He was 6th man of the year as a freshman who only got major tick for, what, half the season?

And you have some revisionist history here. Our offense took off several weeks after Curbelo sat. We turned the ball over at an extremely high rate right after he sat (just like when he was playing). Our offense didn't improve because Curbelo is sitting. OUr offense improved because we've now had time for the team to jell.

 

[BashCtIllini]

He had a head injury so it's hard to judge whether this would have been a problem otherwise. And I'd argue that if we aren't aiming for him to score 10+ points per game, we are aiming too low. He can be all of the things you say and still score at a high rate. Lest we forget, he is really good. He was 6th man of the year as a freshman who only got major tick for, what, half the season?

Thats my point, take your points when they're there. If you play 30 mpg, there are plenty of opportunities to score 10 points. But you can't force it. He was an unknown last year. Coaches have a scouting report now. The PGs role is the facilitate the offense, can't be just out their dribbling looking for your shot. You've got to facilitate.

 

[Ghost77]

My complaint against Curbelo this season was I felt he was playing selfishly, dribbling the air out of the ball looking for his shot. We dont need him to score 10+points a game ever. His strength is breaking down the defense. Using that to get a teammate a good look is just as valuable as getting yourself a good look.

Our offense took off when Curbelo sat because we had much better ball movement. Hopefully he sees that and realizes his scoring will always be gravy. break down the defense and distribute. I'd rather his goal be 10 apg than 10 ppg. I'd get him to model himself after TJ Ford.

I was pretty nervous about Belo being a distributor outside of the paint simply because of our tendency these last several years to have subpar 3 shooting but I feel so much better with guys like Grandison and Plummer out there.

 

[The Galloping Ghost]

My complaint against Curbelo this season was I felt he was playing selfishly, dribbling the air out of the ball looking for his shot. We dont need him to score 10+points a game ever. His strength is breaking down the defense. Using that to get a teammate a good look is just as valuable as getting yourself a good look.

Our offense took off when Curbelo sat because we had much better ball movement. Hopefully he sees that and realizes his scoring will always be gravy. break down the defense and distribute. I'd rather his goal be 10 apg than 10 ppg. I'd get him to model himself after TJ Ford.

He averaged 9.1 a game as a freshman in 21.5 minutes. That includes the early part of the season when he wasn't playing that much. Come on now.

 

[sacraig]

Thats my point, take your points when they're there. If you play 30 mpg, there are plenty of opportunities to score 10 points. But you can't force it. He was an unknown last year. Coaches have a scouting report now. The PGs role is the facilitate the offense, can't be just out their dribbling looking for your shot. You've got to facilitate.

I disagree that that is their sole role. That's one of their major roles. Perhaps their most important role. But it's not a sole role. If a PG can't score regularly, the defense doesn't have to treat them as a threat. See: Frazier, Chester

Plus, Curbelo has proven he can do both. This kid is special. Let's not pretend he was barely above replacement level.

 

[blackdog]

I disagree that that is their sole role. That's one of their major roles. Perhaps their most important role. But it's not a sole role. If a PG can't score regularly, the defense doesn't have to treat them as a threat. See: Frazier, Chester

Plus, Curbelo has proven he can do both. This kid is special. Let's not pretend he was barely above replacement level.

He was 2 assists away from a triple double in a B1G game. As a freshman. The high assist number for the team for this season is 8 which was Damonte against UTRVG. Curbelo had 3 games with 8 and 1 with 9 last year. Again as a freshman. All in B1G games.

 

[Dbell1981]

Unless they have a transfer PG Epps will relieve Belo IMO.

I think Podz will get some major minutes next year too. He will be a year ahead of Epps as far as knowing the defense and you know that is huge with coach. Also a year with fletch to get stronger. Without Trent, Damonte, and Plummer its gonna be an all out battle between the freshmen and sophs for minutes. Exciting future for sure!

 

[Calvin]

I think Podz will get some major minutes next year too. He will be a year ahead of Epps as far as knowing the defense and you know that is huge with coach. Also a year with fletch to get stronger. Without Trent, Damonte, and Plummer its gonna be an all out battle between the freshmen and sophs for minutes. Exciting future for sure!

It is!

I feel like it's been a while since we had a coach like Underwood where players have a high ceiling and it's just a question of how much they develop. Self and Kruger IMO knew how to build a roster and could recruit to it. I'm putting Underwood in that class as well --seems to have a high-level vision for every player, and you can see them making strides over time. I'm not suggesting the team is loaded with NBA players, but teams that make the F4 usually have a pro or two on them, and I think Underwood's got a stable of guys where we'll see some consistency in guys being at least in that discussion.

 

[pruman91]

Basing my opinion on what trusted posters here have said about BU and staff pulling back from Mr. Fears for WHATEVER reason tells me that we have a coach who will NOT sacrifice the culture for immediate results.........Not saying Mr. Fears would bring immediate results or not , the Illini program is an every day guy culture that took a couple of years to get going .....BU see's what sometimes we don't..............the risk of a highly rated recruit with demands that could interrupt the vision for the future ascendancy of the Illini program that we all want......

BU has a knack of seeing talent before others....he also has a knack of seeing disruption before others and has learned a valuable lesson from the past off season transfer....Nuff said about that.....I'm so glad we have progressed in BU's tenure here and , yes , the future is bright.........

 

[Emerson Bigguns]

I disagree that that is their sole role. That's one of their major roles. Perhaps their most important role. But it's not a sole role. If a PG can't score regularly, the defense doesn't have to treat them as a threat. See: Frazier, Chester

Plus, Curbelo has proven he can do both. This kid is special. Let's not pretend he was barely above replacement level.

Let's also not forget that the kid is an outstanding on-ball defender.

 

[Nuke Dukem]

He certainly moves well but not nearly as smooth as someone like Keegan Murray,Cade Cunningham or others. I think we as Illini fans often are biased and I wonder if our opponents see things in our guys we may?
When Coleman dribbles and moves he reminds me very much of Brian Cook. Coleman just makes a few more mistakes and can't shoot like that yet. Coleman has good handles for his size and his body almost is bouncing with the ball when he dribbles. Much like Cook did. Going one on one shaking off players, creating his own shot like very fluid players do just isn't his thing. He does move well though and can let Belo do that and get him shots. I hope he can become close to the type of shooter and player Cook was. When he moves and possesses the ball thats who he reminds me of. He certainly moves well and has a lot of potential.

This^. I love CoHawk’s potential but he is way behind where Cook was as a sophomore. Brian started every game and was the second leading scorer on a very talented team that was a #1 seed and made the Elite Eight. There is still time for Coleman to get there though.

 

[ptgd1]

Basing my opinion on what trusted posters here have said about BU and staff pulling back from Mr. Fears for WHATEVER reason tells me that we have a coach who will NOT sacrifice the culture for immediate results.........Not saying Mr. Fears would bring immediate results or not , the Illini program is an every day guy culture that took a couple of years to get going .....BU see's what sometimes we don't..............the risk of a highly rated recruit with demands that could interrupt the vision for the future ascendancy of the Illini program that we all want......

BU has a knack of seeing talent before others....he also has a knack of seeing disruption before others and has learned a valuable lesson from the past off season transfer....Nuff said about that.....I'm so glad we have progressed in BU's tenure here and , yes , the future is bright.........

In a way, I think Ayo was that guy: "highly rated recruit with demands that could interrupt the vision for the future ascendancy of the Illini program..."

Don't misunderstand that I am saying that Ayo (or his dad) were placing "demands" before he committed.

I am saying, Ayo was a huge recruit that Coach U needed to move the team and the culture forward. But with a high caliber recruit, like Ayo, or even now Fears, there is added pressure to rely on that one player too much, and as a result, the offense stagnates, ala Loyola-Chicago.

I like the blue collar work ethic where every player has a chance in practice to earn minutes.
I would have liked to seen more freshmen minutes, like in that last four-five minutes of first half debacle in Lincoln. We have three offensive minded freshmen. Yes they make mistakes. But when your seniors aren't getting it done, sit em down. Give the young guys a chance.

Sorry if I went off-topic.

 

[PassingBy]

...............................

BU has a knack of seeing talent before others....he also has a knack of seeing disruption before others and has learned a valuable lesson from the past off season transfer....Nuff said about that.....I'm so glad we have progressed in BU's tenure here and , yes , the future is bright.........

BU seems to have the knack of seeing the culture of the player + his parents + other supports, besides talent

Seems we agree it was not talent that led BU to back off Fears. It was an unnecessary, disruptive (-ve) culture. And, that is a long term, visionary, strategic decision.

 

[pruman91]

In a way, I think Ayo was that guy: "highly rated recruit with demands that could interrupt the vision for the future ascendancy of the Illini program..."

Don't misunderstand that I am saying that Ayo (or his dad) were placing "demands" before he committed.

I am saying, Ayo was a huge recruit that Coach U needed to move the team and the culture forward. But with a high caliber recruit, like Ayo, or even now Fears, there is added pressure to rely on that one player too much, and as a result, the offense stagnates, ala Loyola-Chicago.

I like the blue collar work ethic where every player has a chance in practice to earn minutes.
I would have liked to seen more freshmen minutes, like in that last four-five minutes of first half debacle in Lincoln. We have three offensive minded freshmen. Yes they make mistakes. But when your seniors aren't getting it done, sit em down. Give the young guys a chance.

Sorry if I went off-topic.

I see what you are saying , to an extent , but our newfound culture now doesn't rely as much on one player , Ayo notwithstanding........I base that presumption on the way we played after Ayo was injured ....That was a three game stretch that I know I was worried to death , that without Ayo playing we were going to be whipped without our go to guy........We won all three games and proved to me that we were a team , not a star player and subordinates......

That feeling has been driven higher in my own opinion by the way this season has unfolded without certain players being available........BU has us at a level that we have somebody different stepping up every game or two to keep the Illini train moving forward...........

I really think we will win the next two games rather convincingly , especially playing at home...........I really really do................

Please dear Ancients , let the Illini come forth with that picket fence play to achieve victory tonight and Monday .......

 

[WhiteHorseWings]

BU seems to have the knack of seeing the culture of the player + his parents + other supports, besides talent

Do you mean except for Smith, Griffin, Jones and Miller?

 

[Emerson Bigguns]

Do you mean except for Smith, Griffin, Jones and Miller?

I think the standards have moved since those guys were here, partially because of those guys. When you are working from a point of having a deficit of talent compared to most others in the conference, you may be more willing to accept a guy whos has the talent but needs to work on the attitude. As the talent gap has closed, so has the staff's willingness to consider guys who aren't already "Everyday Guys".