Michigan-Wisconsin Postgame Fight

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#226      
I’ve gone back and forth inside my own little head as to whether Howard should be fired, or if the suspension is sufficient. Down deep, I think the suspension would maybe be justified if this were his first occurrence, but it’s not . . . the suspension is far too little, and sends the wrong message to the entire world. Without knowing NCAA, conference and university rules, I think I would have filed charges if I were the UW assistant coach that got slapped - a message needs to be sent that this type of conduct is unacceptable on or off the court.

On the other hand, if Howard stays he’s such a poor coach he virtually guarantees that Michigan is goin to suck as long as he is there, so that’s a good thing, right? 🤣🤪🤣
 
#227      

Ransom Stoddard

Ordained Dudeist Priest
Bloomington, IL
I’ve gone back and forth inside my own little head as to whether Howard should be fired, or if the suspension is sufficient. Down deep, I think the suspension would maybe be justified if this were his first occurrence, but it’s not . . . the suspension is far too little, and sends the wrong message to the entire world. Without knowing NCAA, conference and university rules, I think I would have filed charges if I were the UW assistant coach that got slapped - a message needs to be sent that this type of conduct is unacceptable on or off the court.

On the other hand, if Howard stays he’s such a poor coach he virtually guarantees that Michigan is goin to suck as long as he is there, so that’s a good thing, right? 🤣🤪🤣
Two words:
Phil Martelli
 
#230      
I just read a Deadspin article that takes the position that Gard started the whole incident, and he should be punished more the Coward. :oops::rolleyes: He is only being punished so much because he was black. I don't get the racial component of this ruckass. He struck another coach, and it is not the first incident of loss of control on his part. Besides the run-in with Turgeon (actually the second between those two), he has had more than his share of head scratching technicals.
 
#231      
I just read a Deadspin article that takes the position that Gard started the whole incident, and he should be punished more the Coward. :oops::rolleyes: He is only being punished so much because he was black. I don't get the racial component of this ruckass. He struck another coach, and it is not the first incident of loss of control on his part. Besides the run-in with Turgeon (actually the second between those two), he has had more than his share of head scratching technicals.
It was only a matter of time until it was brought up. I read the article, and I believe that the author was trying to bring forth the rationale that only minority coaches are punished, bringing up the Few DUI issue, a valid comparison in terms of examples of poor leadership being exhibited, but differing in light years in terms of the offense. Few's DUI might have caused physical harm, but it didn't, and he was subject to the criminal justice system as is appropriate. Howard's actions however, while being litigated and adjudicated in the media, did cause physical harm, and he is not being subjected to the criminal justice system.

Besides, Deadspin is trash media and when you look at the writer's profile all is clear.
 
#233      

altgeld88

Arlington, Virginia
Wow, truly shocking stuff. I had not been aware of this incident. Really underscores the point that this stuff needs to be taken seriously. The fact that Winfield got to go onto have the career he did and Behagen, who stomped on a defenseless guy's head, got to have a 7 year NBA career after that is just wrong, in my opinion.
That attack (and it was an attack not a brawl; you need two sides engaged to have a brawl, not one side getting pursued around the court by players and fans and beaten senseless) was just bad for all concerned, not only the OSU players. It haunted Corky Taylor, the guy who initiated the violence, to his grave, despite Witte's forgiveness and their reconciliation in person in 2000. Winfield skated because no video footage existed of his assault, and has lived his life in complete denial about it:


Ron Behagen, whom the BT coaches had agreed not to recruit from an Idaho JC because he had hired an agent (Musselman arrived after this agreement and wanted so desperately to win so he took whomever he could find who had talent), indeed had a substantial NBA career. However, he was convicted of defrauding an Atlanta woman suffering from dementia out of nearly $10k a decade ago. The guy was 60 years old at the time and he was stealing from the incapacitated elderly.

(As for Musselman, he lost his job nearly 20 years later as the expansion Timberwolves HC largely because he refused to spend time developing young players; he wanted to win at any cost and viewed player development as a waste of time. The guy learned absolutely nothing as an adult in this area and died at 58.)

The whole thing is a big deal, still, 50 years on. People may wave off Juwan's slap at Krabbenhoft and his aggression toward Gard. Whatever the roots of Howard's anger, what I saw in him on Sunday was the same overweening pride and rage that consumed coach Bill Musselman sitting on the Gopher's bench 50 years ago as his team went down to defeat, with which he infected his players and a crowd of 17,000 people in Williams arena. This sort of thing is malignant for the game and everyone involved, can get well out of hand in an instant, and can destroy lives.

Watching the Malice at the Palace documentary is similarly depressing. The guys involved for the Pacers had their careers and a shot at an NBA title ruined. Basketball was, in certain cases, their salvation and an escape from really difficult circumstances.

The veneer of civilization is pretty thin in general and needs constant maintenance. It's really important IMO to defend it vigorously in sport.

OK, I'll get off my soapbox on this and toss it on the fire.
 
#234      
I was born just after the 1972 Ohio State - Minnesota brawl. I'm reading up on it now and saw the grainy video, and I'm in a bit of shock after watching it.

Does anyone here remember that game, or even saw it on TV or live?
I was friends with Clyde Turner and listened to the game on the radio. As I remember, it was a back and forth affair until Behagan fouled out. Down the stretch it was clear that Ohio State was going to win. The game ended with the assault by the Gophers. It was a criminal riot by a team that was so foolish and pointless as to make any fan of College Basketball ashamed. It was a different time and I have to say that racial tension played a role. Luke Witte was the victim of pent up racial frustration. There was an undertone thought at the time that Freddie Taylor had a quota system regarding Black players on his roster. That may have sparked the outburst. This is a JMHO here. There is no excuse that makes it OKAY for this to have happened.
 
#235      
I was born just after the 1972 Ohio State - Minnesota brawl. I'm reading up on it now and saw the grainy video, and I'm in a bit of shock after watching it.

Does anyone here remember that game, or even saw it on TV or live?
I was friends with Clyde Turner and listened to the game on the radio. As I remember, it was a back and forth affair until Behagan fouled out. Down the stretch it was clear that Ohio State was going to win. The game ended with the assault by the Gophers. It was a criminal riot by a team that was so foolish and pointless as to make any fan of College Basketball ashamed. It was a different time and I have to say that racial tension played a role. Luke Witte was the victim of pent up racial frustration. There was an undertone thought at the time that Freddie Taylor had a quota system regarding Black players on his roster. That may have sparked the outburst. This is a JMHO here. There is no excuse that makes it OKAY for this to have happened.
 
#236      

altgeld88

Arlington, Virginia
I was friends with Clyde Turner and listened to the game on the radio. As I remember, it was a back and forth affair until Behagan fouled out. Down the stretch it was clear that Ohio State was going to win. The game ended with the assault by the Gophers. It was a criminal riot by a team that was so foolish and pointless as to make any fan of College Basketball ashamed. It was a different time and I have to say that racial tension played a role. Luke Witte was the victim of pent up racial frustration. There was an undertone thought at the time that Freddie Taylor had a quota system regarding Black players on his roster. That may have sparked the outburst. This is a JMHO here. There is no excuse that makes it OKAY for this to have happened.
I didn't realize until a couple years ago that Clyde was a star at Champaign Central.
 
#237      

altgeld88

Arlington, Virginia
Thank you. This is excellent stuff to research. That sucks that it's one of your earliest sports memories. Mine was the 1979 Pirates-Orioles World Series on my parent's black and white TV. A little bit cheerier.
Funny, I recall that '79 series well. Stargell & Sanguillen for the Pirates, their gold unis and those throwback 1890s hats. The old Memorial Stadium in Baltimore. Coincidentally, the earliest sports memory I can recall (though it's kinda incoherent) was the Pirates-Orioles World Series in 1971. I have a memory of my parents dragging me to a furniture store on a Saturday afternoon. There was a TV there, one of those old B&W ones in a wood cabinet, and I recall the Pirates uniforms and an outfielder chasing down a fly near the wall. It's weird what sticks in the unformed mind of a five-year-old.
 
#238      

Retro62

North Bethesda, Maryland
I remember this brawl but did not see it live. I remember it from video clips on the news and I remember Luke Witte was never the same dominant player he was beforehand.

Jim Brewer was from Proviso East and was a great Illinois High School player. And Dave Winfield became a great baseball player.

Another horrible seen was when Kermit Wahington of the Lakers cheap shotted Rudy Tomjanovich of the Houston Rockets. Rudy had to have numerous surgeries and the Lakers traded Washington pretty quickly after the event, but he then played for another team. Just a vicious scene.
Saw that one live...just horrible. And then there was the Garrett Morris take on it on SNL news.
 
#239      
I didn't realize until a couple years ago that Clyde was a star at Champaign Central.
Clyde was a great player and good guy. There are things that happen in one's life that we regret in retrospect. I knew Clyde before this incident happened and feel that what happened here was an outlier. JMHO
 
#240      

altgeld88

Arlington, Virginia
Saw that one live...just horrible. And then there was the Garrett Morris take on it on SNL news.
Yeah, that was brutal. And another guy (Kermit) who lost it for an instant (after a scuffle that no one recalls but that led to the punch) and spent years attempting to redeem himself in the public eye.
 
#241      

Rad

Nashville, TN
Suffice it to say sore losers are a terrible look and example, and have a terrible effect on any organization if not properly addressed.
 
#242      
What is bothering me at this point is the media running to Izzo for an opinion Every time something happens, they all run to Izzo to get his blessing. The media needs to run to Warren and explain why this happened under his watch. The media is too scared to address him adversely. If anyone is teflon here, its Warren. The media has never questioned any of his decisions.
 
#243      
Funny, I recall that '79 series well. Stargell & Sanguillen for the Pirates, their gold unis and those throwback 1890s hats. The old Memorial Stadium in Baltimore. Coincidentally, the earliest sports memory I can recall (though it's kinda incoherent) was the Pirates-Orioles World Series in 1971. I have a memory of my parents dragging me to a furniture store on a Saturday afternoon. There was a TV there, one of those old B&W ones in a wood cabinet, and I recall the Pirates uniforms and an outfielder chasing down a fly near the wall. It's weird what sticks in the unformed mind of a five-year-old.
1971 was around the time that I began following baseball. Roberto Clemente was my favorite player. I remember feeling sad when my father told me he died in the plane crash.

One of my early sports TV memories was as a 7-year-old watching Hank Aaron hit # 715 on live TV. I remember watching the ball sail over the left-field fence and hit the Bank Americard sign.
 
#245      

altgeld88

Arlington, Virginia
1971 was around the time that I began following baseball. Roberto Clemente was my favorite player. I remember feeling sad when my father told me he died in the plane crash.

One of my early sports TV memories was as a 7-year-old watching Hank Aaron hit # 715 on live TV. I remember watching the ball sail over the left-field fence and hit the Bank Americard sign.
Yep. Monday night baseball v. the Dodgers. I remember that, too. Pretty cool to see that history as an 8-yr old. Later on I learned about the terrible abuse he had to put up with in chasing the Babe's record. Very sad.
 
#246      
Yep. Monday night baseball v. the Dodgers. I remember that, too. Pretty cool to see that history as an 8-yr old. Later on I learned about the terrible abuse he had to put up with in chasing the Babe's record. Very sad.
It was on my birthday April 8 1974 off Al Downing in the 4th inning where the ball was caught by Dr Tom House, reliever for the Braves in the bull pen.
 
#250      
I'm just gonna say it: the whole Kevin Warren thing is the Guenther/Thomas Effect on steroids.

There's of course a healthy dollop of political culture war seasoning there too, but fundamentally this is just people reckoning with how wrong the Towering Sports Genius Jim Delany narrative was for the past decade in weird proxy form.

Warren is a doofus because conference commissioner is a doofus job only a doofus could do. The whole industry has lost its way and no single human is more responsible for that than Delany.

I agree with the doofus part. I believe Wayne Duke was commissioner in 1972. He was a doofus too.

I'm so old I remember the Ohio State–Minnesota game, played at Minnesota on January 25, 1972.

Ohio States Luke Witte was knocked unconscious by Behagan, Taylor, Brewer and Winfield. Only Taylor and Behagen were suspended for the rest of the season. Witte was carried from the floor. Hospitalized for several days, including 24 hours in intensive care, Witte's injuries included 29 facial stitches and a scarred cornea. In all, three Ohio State players were taken to hospitals.

Minnesota won the B1G that year

Just sayin........................
 
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