Illini Basketball 2022-2023

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#726      
The 3rd string 5 is still scary. Wish BBV had stayed. Is Lieb capable of giving us some decent minutes when foul trouble happens like BBV last year? If not, we’re going to have to rely on a tall lineup and lots of help defense against the true bigs like Edey.
Like most of you, I’m hoping Nance withdraws from the draft and signs with us. We’ll know if he’s staying in the draft in another couple of days. I’m confident the staff will sign a player that can provide us with competent minutes at the 5. There are too many minutes available on a top level team to not attract somebody who can help.

There has been some hand wringing about our ability to compete against teams with a dominating center such as Zach Edey. Like BWA stated above, there are a lot of ways to defend a center without matching his size. With our overall length and speed, feeding the post will be a major challenge. If they are successful getting the ball inside, we have many options to double the post. With our #2-#4 players all being 6’-6” to 6’-10”, they won’t know where the double is coming from, and all can be effective defenders. Think back to this year’s NCAA tournament where Purdue lost to St. Josephs, whose largest player getting major minutes was 6’-7” and weighing 200 pounds. If I recall, the Baylor national champions didn’t have a dominant center and their defense was incredibly effective.
 
#728      

blackdog

Champaign
My own take is the team was mediocre until he started and struggled when he wasn't healthy. He's limited athletically and as a ball handler but he's in the right spots on both sides of the court, plays within himself but still can make tough shots when needed, and can pass.

That being said if he did come back he would probably have to accepted being behind TSJ and RJ as well as maybe sharing a role with Goode but I would love to have him back.
 
#731      
Obviously BU will want to play fast this year, and it will be really interesting to see if he changes the defense to achieve that. Here is what we know...

-The packline defense limits just how fast you can play. We should be elite at the packline this year because of our length and athleticism, which will lead to more missed shots. And we will have at least 4 guys who can grab a board and immediately push. If CHawk is at the 5, every guy on the court could lead the break. But like I said, in a packline many teams will be happy to hold the ball and slow us down.

-Maybe BU implements more full court pressure? We have the bodies to do it. Maybe BU takes some things he's learned from Huggins and uses it this year. I don't think he ever did that at SFA or OSU, and he certainly hasn't used it here (except when trailing late). But he also has never had this much talent on a team.

-Maybe we go back to the "deny everything" defense that we saw in the first coupe years of the BU era. Remember those days? When teams would shoot 75% against us but also commit 25 turnovers. The stats from some of those games were crazy. I don't think this will happen, but I do think we would be much better at it this year with the guys we have.

I want to see us play fast. It's fun to watch, the players like it, and it helps recruiting IMO. But I hope BU isn't so infatuated with playing fast that it hurts our defense.
 
#732      

Bigtex

DFW
Obviously BU will want to play fast this year, and it will be really interesting to see if he changes the defense to achieve that. Here is what we know...

-The packline defense limits just how fast you can play. We should be elite at the packline this year because of our length and athleticism, which will lead to more missed shots. And we will have at least 4 guys who can grab a board and immediately push. If CHawk is at the 5, every guy on the court could lead the break. But like I said, in a packline many teams will be happy to hold the ball and slow us down.

-Maybe BU implements more full court pressure? We have the bodies to do it. Maybe BU takes some things he's learned from Huggins and uses it this year. I don't think he ever did that at SFA or OSU, and he certainly hasn't used it here (except when trailing late). But he also has never had this much talent on a team.

-Maybe we go back to the "deny everything" defense that we saw in the first coupe years of the BU era. Remember those days? When teams would shoot 75% against us but also commit 25 turnovers. The stats from some of those games were crazy. I don't think this will happen, but I do think we would be much better at it this year with the guys we have.

I want to see us play fast. It's fun to watch, the players like it, and it helps recruiting IMO. But I hope BU isn't so infatuated with playing fast that it hurts our defense.
Could care less if it hurts our defense - pretty sure coach will play players and this offense & defense to win ball games
 
#733      
I think a lot of us would love to have Grandy back, but is he willing to take a 15-20 mpg role?
He took a 15 mpg role in 20-21, so I would assume yes. Began the first half of that season at around 8-9 mpg before his insertion in the starting lineup and we didn't hear or see anything about him being upset with his role at that time, even though we had freshman Adam Miller starting that whole time. Grandy strikes me as the kind of person who would approach this situation clear-headed/rationally. If he values being on a team that will make a lot of noise over his own PT, then he may very well be back, but if he wants another showcase year for a potential overseas career, I would expect him to go elsewhere. I differ from the mainstream here and kinda think he'll end up choosing the former.
 
#735      
Obviously BU will want to play fast this year, and it will be really interesting to see if he changes the defense to achieve that. Here is what we know...

-The packline defense limits just how fast you can play. We should be elite at the packline this year because of our length and athleticism, which will lead to more missed shots. And we will have at least 4 guys who can grab a board and immediately push. If CHawk is at the 5, every guy on the court could lead the break. But like I said, in a packline many teams will be happy to hold the ball and slow us down.

-Maybe BU implements more full court pressure? We have the bodies to do it. Maybe BU takes some things he's learned from Huggins and uses it this year. I don't think he ever did that at SFA or OSU, and he certainly hasn't used it here (except when trailing late). But he also has never had this much talent on a team.

-Maybe we go back to the "deny everything" defense that we saw in the first coupe years of the BU era. Remember those days? When teams would shoot 75% against us but also commit 25 turnovers. The stats from some of those games were crazy. I don't think this will happen, but I do think we would be much better at it this year with the guys we have.

I want to see us play fast. It's fun to watch, the players like it, and it helps recruiting IMO. But I hope BU isn't so infatuated with playing fast that it hurts our defense.
I agree on playing fast.....but it is somewhat anti B10, except perhaps Iowa recently.

I loved the 7 second shot mantra once upon a time, love a turnover the opponent focus and maximizing fast breaks.

biggest concern I have in doing this...is executing a fast style without giving up 2d chance baskets.

Must be strong rebounding team...couple that with fast "pass for best shot offense" and we will be really good.

I love the celtics play as a model....great rebounding and fast/unselfish ball movement and stifling D.
 
#736      
Obviously BU will want to play fast this year, and it will be really interesting to see if he changes the defense to achieve that. Here is what we know...

-The packline defense limits just how fast you can play. We should be elite at the packline this year because of our length and athleticism, which will lead to more missed shots. And we will have at least 4 guys who can grab a board and immediately push. If CHawk is at the 5, every guy on the court could lead the break. But like I said, in a packline many teams will be happy to hold the ball and slow us down.

-Maybe BU implements more full court pressure? We have the bodies to do it. Maybe BU takes some things he's learned from Huggins and uses it this year. I don't think he ever did that at SFA or OSU, and he certainly hasn't used it here (except when trailing late). But he also has never had this much talent on a team.

-Maybe we go back to the "deny everything" defense that we saw in the first coupe years of the BU era. Remember those days? When teams would shoot 75% against us but also commit 25 turnovers. The stats from some of those games were crazy. I don't think this will happen, but I do think we would be much better at it this year with the guys we have.

I want to see us play fast. It's fun to watch, the players like it, and it helps recruiting IMO. But I hope BU isn't so infatuated with playing fast that it hurts our defense.
I wonder if we’re gonna see an nba style “Help only if absolutely necessary defense.”

With our length and athleticism our 1v1 defense should be tremendous. Use good 1v1 defense to force people to their weakness on the scouting report. You can do that within a pack line setup, just a little more picky about how far packed in you are and how hard you stunt from 1 pass away.

While that is a scheme in itself the variability of how you guard based on individual scouting tendencies can get confusing. I think our guys can handle it. If we go to a “this is how we defend every time” thing, I’d like to see the no middle. We have absurd positional length which is great for that defense plus 2 guys who will play a lot who just came from that system and did it at a high level. It’s controlled pressure that leads to predictable rotations for the defense which allows you to play faster, especially when you’re switchable.

For what it’s worth, I hope we don’t go back to the full out deny. Once teams get it to their “attack guy” were in trouble. The fouls we committed were too many and BU said so himself. You don’t see a lot of teams win like that.

People will hate it, but we got a nasty zone lineup too.

That said some 1-2-2 Iowa style I could get behind. The occasional diamond press like we showed when we were desperate I could see after a free throw here and there. Just hard to do that stuff full time.
 
#737      

skyIdub

Winged Warrior
I don’t see any superstar talent on this team. Have you seen the rosters of Duke, Kentucky, or even Arkansas? We’re not even close to those guys.

We absolutely could use more talent, especially at the 4/5.

Would you have considered Ayo or Kofi "superstar talent" when they were freshmen? Sky, Ty, RJ and TSJ all possess equal or greater superstar talent at similar points of their college careers.

I'm not saying they will equal the success or trajectory of Ayo and Kofi...but they for damn sure have equal or better talent. And I'm inclined to throw CoHawk and Epps in there too.
 
#738      

lstewart53x3

Scottsdale, Arizona
Would you have considered Ayo or Kofi "superstar talent" when they were freshmen? Sky, Ty, RJ and TSJ all possess equal or greater superstar talent at similar points of their college careers.

I'm not saying they will equal the success or trajectory of Ayo and Kofi...but they for damn sure have equal or better talent. And I'm inclined to throw CoHawk and Epps in there too.
CoHawk?

Kofi as a sophomore: 17.7 pts and 9.5 rbs per game.

Ayo as a sophomore: 16.6 pts & 3.3 asts per game.

CoHawk as a sophomore: 5.9 pts & 4.3 rbs per game.
 
#739      
I don't think that's the case with the fans, here. If I'm wrong, I agree that the sentiment is unproductive. With that said, that is not the issue with this situation.

As one point of clarification, I was speaking to the general sentiment of “too much depth” and the constant complaints when February rolls around and so and so player should be getting more minutes or they’ll leave and then when players enter the portal they blame “we didn’t give them enough minutes”, not specific to grandison
 
#740      
Would you have considered Ayo or Kofi "superstar talent" when they were freshmen? Sky, Ty, RJ and TSJ all possess equal or greater superstar talent at similar points of their college careers.

I'm not saying they will equal the success or trajectory of Ayo and Kofi...but they for damn sure have equal or better talent. And I'm inclined to throw CoHawk and Epps in there too.
I agree until your last sentence, except that I while the ceiling is pretty high for RJ, I don’t think we should already put him in the same category as Kofi and Ayo…

Also, minor point here, but Skyy and Ty haven’t started their college careers yet, so hard to say they have equal or greater super star talent at some point in their college careers….though I’d certainly agree the argument could be made that Skyy is rated higher than anyone else.

One last point - it’s probably still a fair point that we have not had “superstar” talent. I would say Ayo and Kofi are incredible basketball players, but “superstar” talent, as it is often used in todays world, seems to mean an NBA lottery pick lock type of talent, and it has been a while since we had someone like that on the team. I think comparing our roster and the hype around each player and comparing to Duke, UK etc is a fruitless game, but I understand the original point that we don’t have that “superstar” talent
 
#741      
I agree until your last sentence, except that I while the ceiling is pretty high for RJ, I don’t think we should already put him in the same category as Kofi and Ayo…

Also, minor point here, but Skyy and Ty haven’t started their college careers yet, so hard to say they have equal or greater super star talent at some point in their college careers….though I’d certainly agree the argument could be made that Skyy is rated higher than anyone else.

One last point - it’s probably still a fair point that we have not had “superstar” talent. I would say Ayo and Kofi are incredible basketball players, but “superstar” talent, as it is often used in todays world, seems to mean an NBA lottery pick lock type of talent, and it has been a while since we had someone like that on the team. I think comparing our roster and the hype around each player and comparing to Duke, UK etc is a fruitless game, but I understand the original point that we don’t have that “superstar” talent
Agreed. Superstar talent means NBA lottery pick and/or first team All-American. I don't see anyone on this team qualifying. I do think chances are good that Shannon and maybe Mayer are playing in the NBA 17 months from now.
 
#745      
My own take is the team was mediocre until he started and struggled when he wasn't healthy. He's limited athletically and as a ball handler but he's in the right spots on both sides of the court, plays within himself but still can make tough shots when needed, and can pass.

That being said if he did come back he would probably have to accepted being behind TSJ and RJ as well as maybe sharing a role with Goode but I would love to have him back.
He was ahead of both Goode and RJ this past year. Why would that change?
 
#747      

JSpence

Evansville, IN
Agreed. Superstar talent means NBA lottery pick and/or first team All-American. I don't see anyone on this team qualifying. I do think chances are good that Shannon and maybe Mayer are playing in the NBA 17 months from now.

Dawg, Ayo and Kofi were both first team all-americans that terrorized opponents.

So, I guess you were agreeing with the other parts. I'll also be surprised if anyone ends up on a short list this year. It's a media-driven thing that usually needs year-long momentum, and most guys are in a new system. Agreed on a decent chance of multiple guys looking at NBA paychecks in a year.
 
#749      
I agree until your last sentence, except that I while the ceiling is pretty high for RJ, I don’t think we should already put him in the same category as Kofi and Ayo…

Also, minor point here, but Skyy and Ty haven’t started their college careers yet, so hard to say they have equal or greater super star talent at some point in their college careers….though I’d certainly agree the argument could be made that Skyy is rated higher than anyone else.

One last point - it’s probably still a fair point that we have not had “superstar” talent. I would say Ayo and Kofi are incredible basketball players, but “superstar” talent, as it is often used in todays world, seems to mean an NBA lottery pick lock type of talent, and it has been a while since we had someone like that on the team. I think comparing our roster and the hype around each player and comparing to Duke, UK etc is a fruitless game, but I understand the original point that we don’t have that “superstar” talent
Unless Skyy is hurt he is a superstar talent,he can do things on the court that Ayo will never be able to do. And like I said before until he got hurt he was ranked up there with the Duke and Kentucky burger boys,and oh yeah he was a Kentucky commit until we stole him
 
#750      
Big Ten is going to look VERY different … anyone want to take a shot at projected tiers? I’d have to assume we’re near the top, and IU should be good. Michigan will be at least kind of good no matter what, but the draft affects them a lot.
 
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